Discrimination

NKG

Nkg
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Jul 27, 2016
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Beyond the obvious thing where SWMs have clearly faced the least discrimination historically, how do you justify that?

You are looking for sympathy and you're not getting it. You are not special compared to anyone else. I personally wouldn't say your being discriminated because your white because it holds nothing to those who are of color. Unless, someone says " because you are WHITE" I would just move on.
 
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You are looking for sympathy and you're not getting it. You are not special compared to anyone else. I personally wouldn't say your being discriminated because your white because it holds nothing to those who are of color. Unless, someone says " because you are WHITE" I would just move on.
You're putting a lot of things on me that I didn't say and don't think. I'm not the OP, and my first response was that the amount of "discrimination" I've perceived as a SWM is incredibly small, especially compared to what every single other group deals with today and has dealt with in the past. I basically see a growing awareness of people's straight white maleness, and how it's uncomfortable for everybody that so many people in positions of socially-constructed or corporate-delegated power are SWMs. And I would agree that there is a sharp overreaction to that by SWMs and their cultural allies in recent years, which is why people naturally feel like: "oh cry me a river."

When a SWM hears that we need to promote or hire a person who is implicitly not a SWM, it scares SWMs that they are feeling the very beginnings of discrimination. And while it doesn't seriously compare in any measurable terms, it's a bit of a shock.

I think it's best that we not revel in that turning of the tables, but look to empathy.
 

NKG

Nkg
Joined
Jul 27, 2016
Messages
4,256
You're putting a lot of things on me that I didn't say and don't think. I'm not the OP, and my first response was that the amount of "discrimination" I've perceived as a SWM is incredibly small, especially compared to what every single other group deals with today and has dealt with in the past. I basically see a growing awareness of people's straight white maleness, and how it's uncomfortable for everybody that so many people in positions of socially-constructed or corporate-delegated power are SWMs. And I would agree that there is a sharp overreaction to that by SWMs and their cultural allies in recent years, which is why people naturally feel like: "oh cry me a river."

When a SWM hears that we need to promote or hire a person who is implicitly not a SWM, it scares SWMs that they are feeling the very beginnings of discrimination. And while it doesn't seriously compare in any measurable terms, it's a bit of a shock.

I think it's best that we not revel in that turning of the tables, but look to empathy.
Then stay out of my comments and I won't involve you
 

happygoth

reshop till I drop
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Apr 17, 2019
Messages
3,151
You're putting a lot of things on me that I didn't say and don't think. I'm not the OP, and my first response was that the amount of "discrimination" I've perceived as a SWM is incredibly small, especially compared to what every single other group deals with today and has dealt with in the past. I basically see a growing awareness of people's straight white maleness, and how it's uncomfortable for everybody that so many people in positions of socially-constructed or corporate-delegated power are SWMs. And I would agree that there is a sharp overreaction to that by SWMs and their cultural allies in recent years, which is why people naturally feel like: "oh cry me a river."

When a SWM hears that we need to promote or hire a person who is implicitly not a SWM, it scares SWMs that they are feeling the very beginnings of discrimination. And while it doesn't seriously compare in any measurable terms, it's a bit of a shock.

I think it's best that we not revel in that turning of the tables, but look to empathy.
I understand what you're saying. But why would a SWM get up in arms over someone else succeeding? Because that's the way it comes across, like someone else getting a promotion or a leg up is taking away from their superiority. Not even getting into things like Affirmative Action, it just plays like anyone who isn't a SWM just doesn't deserve consideration.

At the risk of fanning flames, look at January 6th, and the Proud Boys, Oathkeepers, etc. Obviously I'm not saying all white men feel that way, but what are these people so angry about? What are they lacking in their lives that it scares them SO MUCH to have a compassionate immigration policy or affordable health care or policies that protect minority classes?

Why does the straight white male need to be top dog, number one, the King, large and in charge, with everyone else dancing to their tune? Why have all of these groups - women, LGBTQ+, POC, non-Christian religions - why have we had to fight tooth and fucking nail to be free, to have rights, to get ours, over and over and over and many are still fighting to this day? WHY? Seriously straight white men, what is your damn problem?
 
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Why does the straight white male need to be top dog, number one, the King, large and in charge, with everyone else dancing to their tune? Why have all of these groups - women, LGBTQ+, POC, non-Christian religions - why have we had to fight tooth and fucking nail to be free, to have rights, to get ours, over and over and over and many are still fighting to this day? WHY? Seriously straight white men, what is your damn problem?

I just want to be treated like everyone else. I make no excuses for the Trumpers or Neo-Nazis. They are not my people. Fuck them. I love that finally in this country we're including more people. I am a SWM, but I'm also not. If I let my hair grow out and spent a lot more time in the sun, then you'd think I was a Native American because my mom was born on the Rez and cruelly adopted away to a white family as that was the thing back then. That part of my heritage shows up when my hair is long and I have a tan. It becomes obvious then. And, yes, I have been the victim of racism for it in the past.

I have no desire to go back to a complete white male run world. Lord knows they fucked shit up completely. I can't fix that. But, please treat me as I am, not how some of my ancestors were. We're all equally human. The sins of the father should not be visited on the son (unless they really deserve it like the fucking Trumper Neo-Nazis. Seriously, fuck those assholes.)
 
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happygoth

reshop till I drop
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I just want to be treated like everyone else. I make no excuses for the Trumpers or Neo-Nazis. They are not my people. Fuck them. I love that finally in this country we're including more people. I am a SWM, but I'm also not. If I let my hair grow out and spent a lot more time in the sun, then you'd think I was a Native American because my mom was born on the Rez and cruelly adopted away to a white family as that was the thing back then. That part of my heritage shows up when my hair is long and I have a tan. It becomes obvious then. And, yes, I have been the victim of racism for it in the past.

I have no desire to go back to a complete white male run world. Lord knows they fucked shit up completely. I can't fix that. But, please treat me as I am, not how some of my ancestors were. We're all equally human. The sins of the father should not be visited on the son (unless they really deserve like the fucking Trumper Neo-Nazis. Seriously, fuck those assholes.)
I mean, I can't argue with this. Of course we should all be treated equally.

I guess I would need to know the specifics of what type of discrimination SWM seem to be facing. On the surface, being asked to sweep up another TM's mess doesn't seem out of bounds - I spend a lot of time cleaning up after other TMs. Are TMs being asked to do things simply because they are white males, while others skate free because they are minorities? Is it all white males in the building, or could it be because someone is just better at something? Or happens to be there at the time? Could this be something personal between one leader and a specific TM who happens to be a SWM?
 

Tessa120

Current game: Thief
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Mar 17, 2017
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5,279
A few years back there was a discrimination case of a heterosexual white male being sexually harassed by another heterosexual white male. I think there was an appeal, but the end result was that yes, that sort of discrimination is illegal and yes, the targeted man could seek redress.

I had an incident and my husband had a different incident where a black woman made outright reverse racist statements. For me, she said my tone of voice was talking down to her because she was black. When I tried to apologize and say I wasn't aware of it, she replied "No, you wouldn't, because you are white. White people all talk that way towards black people and aren't aware of it because they are white." My husband, an employee of his asked a woman if she could help her find something, and the woman lay into her something fierce, brought her to tears, because offering help meant she was accusing the black woman of stealing simply based on skin color. When my husband interceded, the woman pointed to her arm and said "This color can do no wrong."

My point? It is possible for a person who is not white to have a discriminatory outlook towards white people. If such a person is in a position of authority, they may use that position of authority to act on that outlook. Which makes them no different than certain white people. Which really shows that both beauty and ugliness affects all, regardless of skin color.
 
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At our store, they only hire Young people. Anyone who works there that is over 30 or 35 gets nit-picked to death. It's as if they are intentionally trying to get rid of us. I believe our store is discriminating against age. They easily promote tm's to tl's who have only worked there like 2 months. But the tm's who have worked there longer are very overlooked.
 
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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
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Obviously the human race has a long way to go to even sort itself out, BTW, i just took the training and aced it with a 100%. It essentially reads as a checklist of what goes on in my store. Count yourself lucky if you and your fellow TMs haven't encountered this....
 
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I understand what you're saying. But why would a SWM get up in arms over someone else succeeding? Because that's the way it comes across, like someone else getting a promotion or a leg up is taking away from their superiority. Not even getting into things like Affirmative Action, it just plays like anyone who isn't a SWM just doesn't deserve consideration.

At the risk of fanning flames, look at January 6th, and the Proud Boys, Oathkeepers, etc. Obviously I'm not saying all white men feel that way, but what are these people so angry about? What are they lacking in their lives that it scares them SO MUCH to have a compassionate immigration policy or affordable health care or policies that protect minority classes?

Why does the straight white male need to be top dog, number one, the King, large and in charge, with everyone else dancing to their tune? Why have all of these groups - women, LGBTQ+, POC, non-Christian religions - why have we had to fight tooth and fucking nail to be free, to have rights, to get ours, over and over and over and many are still fighting to this day? WHY? Seriously straight white men, what is your damn problem?
Apologies for the long post, but I like your post and want to give it a decent response.

I think this fear of losing status, though irrational, is just a human reaction that is very deep within us. And it might be more of a male reaction due to sexual differences in perception of power, but that's a little unclear. It's possible that there are tons of SWMs who don't want to have that sort of reaction to giving other people a hand up, but they have that reaction anyway. I would bet that most are not acutely aware of it. "Our" problem is mostly in misguided self-interest.

That level of anger held by the Proud Boys and the rest is something I can't understand even when I try to put myself in their shoes. Most of their complaints seem to be rooted in ignorance or misinformation along the lines of The Bell Curve. From there, various brainwashing and social pressures are used, intentionally or unintentionally, to cement those views and/or further them.

I would offer that just as people are still impacted by slavery and segregation (our parents or grandparents still remember life pre-Civil Rights!), many people are impacted by having been granted the unearned status of SWM; they feel entitled to it, or it has otherwise warped their perception of their place in the culture.

Overall, I guess it's mostly ignorance and being set up by previous generations to be racist. It's worthy of our empathy imo, even though it must not be given our sympathy. And there is no clean way out of centuries of racism and subjugation. Like, no matter how good our intentions, the rot is still in the floorboards and even our best efforts are going to be a little ugly.

For instance, how do we level the playing field? SWMs will have a lasting and unfair advantage if the playing field is magically made level tomorrow, just due to inertia. How we choose to handle that is very tricky. For me, it's not good enough to merely level the playing field. We have to do more if we want an equitable outcome. But when you go any further, you're introducing some amount of racism (or something like racism) to fight racism. Affirmative Action is so controversial in part because it tries to make that happen in a way that is acceptable. It's an incredibly brave thing to do considering the stakes and our history.
 

Duval Dawg

Future successful Man, Cart Attendant
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Apr 13, 2020
Messages
154
I'm just curious if any other older straight white males feel discriminated against at their store? I know I certainly am having just filed a charged with the EEOC against my SD. Target preaches inclusivity, and I'm just curious if Corporate is totally oblivious to the the truth or is this something that just happens at my location... constantly?
Wouldn’t surprise me being that they are a liberal company. But as a young straight white male, I don’t deal with much of that but I feel I’m treated a little different because I’m not like a lot of others there who aren’t straight or white which is ridiculous.
 

Duval Dawg

Future successful Man, Cart Attendant
Joined
Apr 13, 2020
Messages
154
I don't think straight or white is a problem ever but I definitely think target is sexist in the regards to always asking the guys to do the manual labor stuff. It's even asked on the walkie if there are any guys that could go out for carts, or help with team lifts.

I only have a problem with this because it's a requirement to lift x amount of lbs at target regardless of sex and getting carts well ..anyone can accomplish it. There are plenty capable individuals from both sides so i wish they'd just ask if anyone could do it instead of any guys
YEP!
 
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When a GSTL asked the big burly man-Captain (old Captain) to get carts my response was: "you got it." Like pissing on a firecracker fuse, it stops, the bullshit ends, carts done everyone is happy. Even miserable me.
 
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Men are physically larger stronger than women. It’s not sexist to ask them to carry a 100 pound tv stand to a guests car over a wom
100lbs is embellishing, but in short. Yes it is. Any two team members must be capable of team lifting any products. Regardless of sex. Solo lifting team lift products "because you can" I'm pretty sure is a violation
 

happygoth

reshop till I drop
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100lbs is embellishing, but in short. Yes it is. Any two team members must be capable of team lifting any products. Regardless of sex. Solo lifting team lift products "because you can" I'm pretty sure is a violation
In my store gender is never specified when asking for help, folks just say "Team, can I have help with a carryout/team lift..."
 
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Aug 5, 2019
Messages
77
At our store, they only hire Young people. Anyone who works there that is over 30 or 35 gets nit-picked to death. It's as if they are intentionally trying to get rid of us. I believe our store is discriminating against age. They easily promote tm's to tl's who have only worked there like 2 months. But the tm's who have worked there longer are very overlooked.
This. Here. And - hispanic GM never get spoken to about their "pace" or leaving work un finished. Only the very few WM and WF get grilled. It s such an obvious joke as they are expected to cleanup after them, literally do all their backstock AND own backstock. Never see or hear the Hispanic GM answering walkie or any calls as well for backup yet get the same wage. They don't even carry a walkie. And don't help guests. Explain how WM and WF are privileged ?
 

Black Sheep 214

Kiss no butts, give no fox
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Apr 27, 2018
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2,441
At our store, they only hire Young people. Anyone who works there that is over 30 or 35 gets nit-picked to death. It's as if they are intentionally trying to get rid of us. I believe our store is discriminating against age.
Feels that way at my store, too, although the age range was higher. Funny how people who have worked there for years with good reviews, no CCAs, Team Hero of the Month, etc. suddenly have a birthday or two and all of a sudden can’t do anything right, at least in the eyes of certain leaders. Seems like bs to me, and its odd that some of these leaders aren’t exactly spring chickens themselves…🤔🙄🙁🤬
 

happygoth

reshop till I drop
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Messages
3,151
Feels that way at my store, too, although the age range was higher. Funny how people who have worked there for years with good reviews, no CCAs, Team Hero of the Month, etc. suddenly have a birthday or two and all of a sudden can’t do anything right, at least in the eyes of certain leaders. Seems like bs to me, and its odd that some of these leaders aren’t exactly spring chickens themselves…🤔🙄🙁🤬
I can't say that this is what's happening, but often when a company changes the way they do things, the older folks and/or long-timers have a hard time with the changes. They complain about the new policies, say how much better things used to be, struggle to adapt, etc. We've seen it here on this board with all of the resistance to Modernization.

Also, some leaders who've been there for a long time may give these TMs a pass based on their history, but new leaders coming in may not - they just see TMs who can't seem to get the work done the way the company requires.
 
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Some of the young bucks and I always helped with the heavy stuff, good exercise. Sculpted the pythonesque guns today at the gym, finally no mask.
 
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