Archived Firing a TM vs a firing TL (super underperforming TL - need advice)

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I've heard it is harder to fire a TL than it is a TM. Can someone elaborate on this? What steps are taken and how is coaching supposed to work?What can/does "documentation" lead to? Somebody please explain all of this in detail.

If you're wondering why I'm asking (long rant):

Warning: I may sound very complain-y because I am beyond irritated!!!

We have a (the one and only at the moment) TL in my department that is so underperforming it's actually a joke she still has her job. When I mean underperforming I mean coming in completely hungover, falling asleep in the fitting room/TL office, being on her phone (LITERALLY) for at least 80% of her shift, completely distracting other TMs from what they should be doing, calling in constantly, and the list goes on. I can't stand lazy people; I just wanna get shit done and go home. It takes a lot for me to openly complain about people but I finally had it. God damn, I watched her "set" the accessories VMG for 3 DAYS. That shit should only take a few hours max. At the end of the 3RD day of her going back and forth from staring at her phone/staring at the accessories wall that she hadn't even touched at all yet I finally went up to her and said "we're finishing this shit NOW". She helps me for maybe 30 mins then suddenly disappears to chat with someone... so I end up finishing it myself. One time her favorite football player came in shopping and she followed him around the store for the almost two hours he was there taking photos of him. So zone was a disaster. I end up doing a lot of the things she's supposed to be doing because otherwise it doesn't get done at all; which honestly I should just stop doing to prove a point. Everyone in my team has went to our ETL about her. I mean literally every single TM. This has been going on for months. It's embarrassing to have somebody who is paid more than you and who is supposed to be a leader get away with actually doing nothing. I have a very good understanding of what is expected of her too, so I'm not just blowing hot air. My ETL does not want the TL to be pushing freight but when there is nothing else to do besides keep an eye on the team (which she doesn't) - that should not justify constantly being on your phone. In the 9ish months she's been a TL she has called in for an entire months worth of shifts at the very least. A couple TMs are so sick of her behavior they actually started crying. I finally sent my ETL a very professional and detailed message about her after months of waiting because I didn't want it to be redundant. I told her exactly what happens when she (ETL) isn't there. All my ETL replied with was "I'm doing what I can about it."

What does this even mean? All I know from what my TL has said that she has been told that "TMs are complaining" about her. That's it. This TL tells me everything that goes on behind the scenes and has no idea how frustrated I am with her. After a few of us TMs complain about her behaviour she improves for a couple days but then it's back to the exact same thing. It sucks cause I do really like her as a person but I cannot stand her as a leader anymore. I do think she has potential if she were coached properly or AT ALL.
To be fair though, my ETL only works with her 2 days a week, IF that. This TL is very good at putting on a show when the leaders are around. I don't think my ETL understands just how bad it is even after everyone has complained to her so much that she more or less won't even let us talk about her now. Starting to wonder if she doesn't care because the numbers look great and it's "not easy to fire and then find a new TL". It just blows my mind that my ETL is okay wasting payroll and taking on many of the tasks that the TL doesn't do.

Basically, I'm so frustrated that Target somehow seems okay with this. Honestly, I would rather she be coached instead of being fired or at least someone ask her "wtf are you doing?? do your damn job or quit". I really hope my ETL is ACTUALLY doing something about this whole situation. Don't know what to do at this point but if something doesn't get done about her work ethic we're gonna lose a few of our really good TMs out of frustration...

I am being developed at the moment and there's no way I could stand being her peer. No way.
 
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I'd imagine the TL would be asked to demote 1st before they fired them. Target is big on doing things the right way for a bunch of reasons but TL position is harder to fill than a tm position.
 
Have you gone to HR or the store director? Or even district lead. Go of the food chain of your ETL isnt doing anything. And document everything
 
It could be that they are building their case to fire her. I've seen it take 3-4 months to fire a TM because loopholes kept being found. It may be that they haven't found enough concrete, documentable evidence to have that final conversation with her and make it stick. I've been at my store a decade and have seen 3 TLs get canned. Some for bullshit reasons, some for big ones.
 
Frankly, your ETL saying, "I'm doing what I can about it," is a pretty clear sign that he is aware. It's borderline inappropriate to clue you in like that, but you should be able to understand that they're trying. Ask your ETL if there is anything you can do. You might be surprised.
 
There may be an underlying cause why it seems to be dragging on. Some cases are tricky. If this TL has brought up issues (sexual harassment, bullying etc) they need to make sure they cross all T's and dot all i's. When some people find out they are on their way out they know how to work the system. They may also just want to get fired so they can collect unemployment. The other thing is she may be blowing someone and has immunity. (Seen this one happen a few times)
 
unless your ETL doesn't care about their job, they certainly are taking notice and taking action behind the scenes. you won't be informed about it, though, because that's confidential. all you can do is keep informing your ETL of your TL's fuck ups. have faith in the process, though it can take a while.
 
There was another thread about another horrendous TL and that was simply a case of taking time to make it ironclad.
 
Frankly, your ETL saying, "I'm doing what I can about it," is a pretty clear sign that he is aware. It's borderline inappropriate to clue you in like that, but you should be able to understand that they're trying. Ask your ETL if there is anything you can do. You might be surprised.

Yep, they clued you in they know, just keep feeding that ETL info and let them work. You need to stop covering or helping her in any way you can get away with. let her run her rope and hang herself with it.
 
Ummm, why does the name Judas comes to mind when reading this thread? 🤔
 
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