MODERATED General Politics Thread II

Militantagnostic

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I knew it was going to take something big like another food borne illness outbreak, people not getting their tax returns, or a safety issue at the airports to end this shutdown. You can't fuck with American's perception of security, their money, or their travel plans without some major blowback.
 
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He will still be in because other Presidents have done worse and nothing was done.
It all depends on Mueller's report, and whether it implicates the President directly.

So far it has been everyone AROUND him, but not him. Looks like a classic RICO takedown though lol. Get everyone to squeal on each other until you get to the mob boss :cool: In this case POTUS.

Honestly even if Mueller's report DOES implicate Trump, he might still get away with it. The House would impeach Trump, but the Republican Majority Senate would still have to remove him from office. It would have to be in the Republicans' best political interest to betray Trump at this point, and since most Republican Voters think the Russian Investigation is "fake news", who knows how that would end up. There's a good chance he would be acquitted.

Trump has already alienated the majority of independents, and the RNC has committed to him fully for 2020 despite his low approval.
 
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HardlinesFour

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I can tell you this. Never in a trillion years would I ever want GOVERNMENT RUN health insurance. Those who advocate for it, have very obviously never used Medicaid, nor, do they have significant health issues. To bring things into reality, in the state of NY (you know, the most progressive state in the Country) --- it's sorta a game of, throw a dart. You call 30 Doctors, who are on a list as accepting your Medicaid Servicer, and you find out that 26 out of 30 of them -- no longer accept Medicaid Patients, and the others are not accepting patients at all. Your primary source of Health Care is the Emergency Room. The ER. Where Doctors should be focusing on their attention on more serious - life-threatening cases.

I spoke at length with another patient earlier tonight, at Bellevue, and now I know... just how special my magic card is. I now know... I can see my specialists like the hematologists, and good ones at that, without a fuss. I can get actual treatment from the most qualified people I can find. Those on Medicaid, well... they just have to settle for whoever will accept their damn card. And you know what -- I could care less if I have to pay for my insurance, at least I know I'll get to live because of it.

Do your research. Medicaid is SHIT. It's total shit. It doesn't reimburse doctors as much as a traditional insurance plan would. Guess What -- If doctors have to choose between making more or less money, what choice do you think they will take??? Especially in an area with supply and demand as in -- a Doctor Shortage.
 

commiecorvus

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Expanding Medicaid has made a huge difference for us working with people who have disabilities.
Obviously, everyone with disabilities mental or physical have medical issues and if they are unemployed they don't have insurance.
The Republican governor wouldn't expand Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act and it took getting an Independent governor to make that happen.

Our biggest problem when someone with a disability would walk in the door, especially mental, was were they stable enough to work.
If they weren't getting any medical care, medication, psychological treatment, then we would be hard pressed to help them.
Not that we couldn't open a case but even if we did, it wouldn't matter, we can't pay for things in any significant way,
They would fail.

With Medicaid they can get stable albeit with jumping through a lot of hoops and we can help them get back into the workforce.
One of the reasons many doctors don't take Medicare is laws like the one we have in Alaska that was meant as a slap against Planned Parenthood.
It makes any clinic that wants to accept Medicare (like PP) have a doctor who is willing to accept ALL the insurance risks associates with the clinic.
Not very many doctors want to accept that level of risk so it is just easier to refuse patients on Medicare.
Also Medicare only pays a given rate for a certain area and if a doctor thinks very highly of their skills, charging out the ass, they might not want to accept Medicare.

In countries like Israel and Canada when asked if they would go to our system of medical insurance they laugh in your face.
One system for all with extra insurance you can pay for if you want is the best idea.
 

HardlinesFour

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That's great and all -- but you've also got to remember - I live in the Frontier State. We are supposed to be the guiding light, the pathway forward!

The fact is -- I spent a decent bit of time looking up my doctors in the MetroPlus & Fidelis Medicaid Plan. I'm currently being evaluated for a form of blood cancer, and suffice to say, I'd be literally screwed with the options I'm given. None of the specialists I've seen are covered under this system, but then again, neither is my primary care physician, and neither is two major hospital systems in my area. I'm actually surprised and outraged at how poor this program is.

All this time -- until tonight, I just assumed those on Medicaid had the equivalent of my Blue Cross Plan. No, they don't. They do not have anything even remotely close. They have a very limited, watered down choice of health care and they do not get to see the best doctors. They live on the mercy of luck, and trial and error.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm glad the program is out there and exists, and people can take advantage of it. But... I seriously, do not want anything to do with it. It's a horrible program. And out of all the states in the country, I assumed we'd be at the forefront of the best there is to offer. That is bullshit as well.

Not very many doctors want to accept that level of risk so it is just easier to refuse patients on Medicare.
Also Medicare only pays a given rate for a certain area and if a doctor thinks very highly of their skills, charging out the ass, they might not want to accept Medicare.
I'm talking about entire medical groups, apart of major hospitals. It's not like one off practices.

I'm glad it's working for the people you help, and they are getting treatment. But... It's certainly not working for New Yorkers. That is for sure.
 

REDcardJJ

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"And even if we could get a President Gillibrand in 2020, another lukewarm Democratic presidency will not only further impoverish and destabilize the working class and its suffering institutions; it will also all but guarantee that 2024 brings us POTUS Hamburglar in an SS uniform. No, HamNo, it’s Bernie or bust. I don’t care if we have to roll him out on a hand truck and sprinkle cocaine into his coleslaw before every speech. If he dies mid-run, we’ll stuff him full of sawdust, shove a hand up his ass and operate him like a goddamn muppet."

"Partisan isn’t a dirty word, it’s nice out here (on the right side of history), and if you keep sitting on that fence you’re gonna get splinters in your ass. So hop aboard the Bernie train (choo-chooooo)! We got ourselves a winner. It’s Bernie, bitch, and it’s the only game in town."

It’s Still Bernie - https://jacobinmag.com/2019/01/bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-democratic-primary-baffler-amber-frost

It do be like that.
lmao fuck bernie sanders

Beat down by an old neoliberal. Sad.
and screw you for dismissing Nancy Pelosi, one of the great legislators of our time, as "an old neoliberal"
 
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The problem with Medicaid is that providers have no incentive to accept it which causes a lot of problems finding doctors that do take it. However, that is not the cause of the problem it is merely a symptom of it. The problem is that healthcare fundamentally does not work in a for-profit setting. There is no price transparency, there is no "finding the best deal" and there is no "shopping around" for the cheapest hospital then you need an emergency procedure done. The aspects of capitalism that work so well with material commodities simply do not apply to healthcare. That is why here in the United States we have the most expensive system with the least comprehensive coverage of any major industrialized nation.
 

can't touch this

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Golly I sure do love getting charged $15,000 for one ambulance ride and being taken to court for not paying!

I have a friend in Eastern Europe whose country has a national single-payer insurance scheme. He had a double root canal done only a few days after I had mine done, the difference being he paid €125 (at a private dentist office!) and I have to pay $2,800 (which I will be paying off for a very long time). With his national insurance he can go to any healthcare provider and get treated. He sent me a link to a Reddit thread by a guy who got a $250,000 medical bill and asked me if that was real. Yes friendo it’s too real.
 

HardlinesFour

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I sure do salivate at the prospect of dying from woefully inadequate healthcare. Pleeaseee Tell Me Where To Signup!
 

can't touch this

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“If it doesn’t cost 100 grand to visit the hospital, the quality must be Africa-tier!!!!!” -Americans

PLOT TWIST the healthcare network in my friend’s country (Lithuania) is mostly private practitioners and there’s a competing market that keeps prices low. It’s called leveraging the free market for the common good. Just because a healthcare system can be used without bankruptcy doesn’t mean you’ll be getting a blood transfusion out of a Coke bottle or put on a three year waiting list for a broken bone like the stupid memes claim.
 

can't touch this

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“This is the price of freedom!” Cletus exclaims as he opens his hospital bill and sees a line item charge of $100 for a toothbrush and pillow. “They may have charged me an extra $6,000 for tests that I didn’t need and didn’t ask for, BUT AT LEAST I KNOW I’M FREE”
 
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“This is the price of freedom!” Cletus exclaims as he opens his hospital bill and sees a line item charge of $100 for a toothbrush and pillow. “They may have charged me an extra $6,000 for tests that I didn’t need and didn’t ask for, BUT AT LEAST I KNOW I’M FREE”
"But healthcare isn't free in dem socialist countries!" Cletus screams as he views the insurance premium deduction that takes out 20% of his paycheck. "They have higher taxes! At least I only have to pay 30% of the costs once I meet my $5,000 deductible!"

Meanwhile, Rand "Socialized medicine is like slavery" Paul is going to Canada for surgery.
 

can't touch this

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The healthcare thing bugs me so much because the ATROCIOUS state of American healthcare should be so very obvious to absolutely everybody and the most solidly bipartisan issue since the Big Bang, but welp unfortunately there are a whole lot of normies who have eaten the Big Pharma lobby’s poop without realizing it. Imagine wanting to pay $5000 for a root canal on purpose because you think that must make it 5000% better than the commie way. What is actually happening is that your dentist is ripping you off and the tidy pile of money he makes is then blown by his wife and girlfriend on two closets full of Gucci bags and shoes. As much fun as that sounds, I’m gonna not.

@HardlinesFour this really isn’t directed at you, by the way. Although I must ask, you’re in California, right?
 

commiecorvus

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The healthcare thing bugs me so much because the ATROCIOUS state of American healthcare should be so very obvious to absolutely everybody and the most solidly bipartisan issue since the Big Bang, but welp unfortunately there are a whole lot of normies who have eaten the Big Pharma lobby’s poop without realizing it. Imagine wanting to pay $5000 for a root canal on purpose because you think that must make it 5000% better than the commie way. What is actually happening is that your dentist is ripping you off and the tidy pile of money he makes is then blown by his wife and girlfriend on two closets full of Gucci bags and shoes. As much fun as that sounds, I’m gonna not.

@HardlinesFour this really isn’t directed at you, by the way. Although I must ask, you’re in California, right?

I think he said New York.
 

HardlinesFour

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I sure do salivate at the prospect of dying from hunger because the medical bills are far too expensive! Pleeaseee Tell Me Where To Signup!
Oh, Pleeease. Like People actually pay their medical bills. I must have ran thousands, and thousands of credit reports, and I'd say like 30% of them had some sort of medical debt in collection. It's not like people actually pay these debts. Lots of people don't even pay their credit card bills.

Also -- The Poor Qualify for all sorts of hospital subsidies and programs. As well as Medicaid, that can be retroactively applied and used towards the bills. Your point is mostly mute.

I was talking about the quality of the health care provided by Medicaid in the state of New York. The fact remains... as long as this is the Finance and Corporate Jungle, there will be private insurers covering patients here. And you know what, I want that Private Insurance if it means I can see better doctors. I want the better healthcare, plain and simple. I want people who know what they are doing.

once I meet my $5,000 deductible!"
Forgive me if I'm wrong -- but I thought your copays for doctor visits and prescriptions go away once you hit your deductibles. Am I wrong?

dying from hunger
ALSO - Soup Kitchens. Food Pantries. Shelters. Food Stamps. I am so damn tired of drug addicts in my area pretending to be homeless and AGGRESSIVELY asking for money. There certainly is no lack of meals being handed out, and there is no reason to be asking for money to buy food. Anything else, yes, but food, No. There is none. We have Soup Kitchens & Food Banks in almost every other neighborhood in this city. If you can't find one, you can walk 10 minutes into another neighborhood and be there.

@HardlinesFour this really isn’t directed at you, by the way. Although I must ask, you’re in California, right?
New York Actually. Live in Manhattan.
 

HardlinesFour

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The healthcare thing bugs me so much because the ATROCIOUS state of American healthcare should be so very obvious to absolutely everybody and the most solidly bipartisan issue since the Big Bang, but welp unfortunately there are a whole lot of normies who have eaten the Big Pharma lobby’s poop without realizing it. Imagine wanting to pay $5000 for a root canal on purpose because you think that must make it 5000% better than the commie way. What is actually happening is that your dentist is ripping you off and the tidy pile of money he makes is then blown by his wife and girlfriend on two closets full of Gucci bags and shoes. As much fun as that sounds, I’m gonna not.
There are reasons our traditional insurance doesn't cover dental. Heck, even the Candian system doesn't cover dental. And the British, they see Dental as a Cosmetic procedure for the most part. From what I've learned Dentistry is mostly opinionated and is based off where the dentist went to school. What you'll realize, is if you visit 10 Dentists -- You will not find a common consensus in any treatment plan. They all seem to recommend something different. The entire industry is mostly private, and independently owned - and because of that, you see outright greed and fraud on a huge basis. There's a CBC Marketplace program that is really eye-opening.


What I'm focusing on -- is everyday health. Provided by NY Presbyterian, NYU Langone, Mount Sinai, Lenox Health and NYC Health (which is actually owned by the city). Not Dentistry, but Doctors and Specialists, that actually treat people's illnesses.
 

can't touch this

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It would be really cool if drug addiction in the US were more treatment and cure oriented instead of focusing mostly on criminal prosecution. That way addicts wouldn't need to commit additional crimes to support their habit. Guarantee you that the way we're doing it now ends up costing more in the long run.
 

HardlinesFour

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It would be really cool if drug addiction in the US were more treatment and cure oriented instead of focusing mostly on criminal prosecution. That way addicts wouldn't need to commit additional crimes to support their habit. Guarantee you that the way we're doing it now ends up costing more in the long run.
I'm honestly sick and tired of all this Decriminalization. We have individuals in my area that have been arrested no less than 50 times for Shoplifting. That is not even an exaggeration. I'm totally serious. There are large groups of career criminals who have realized what a joke our justice system is in NYC and take advantage of it to the fullest. And then... you get these poor cops that realize they are wasting their time even enforcing the law, as the piece of shit will be out on the street in less than a day. @TallAPGuy, in particular, has shared countless personal stories from the Bay Area which has similar stances. Nothing about these actions enhance a community or the individual's lives, it only burdens them.

The sad truth to life is that a lot of addicts refuse to see the errors in their ways and don't want to seek treatment. They need to bottom out and hit a low point. And for some -- a three or six-month stint in prison is the perfect solution for them.
 
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Forgive me if I'm wrong -- but I thought your copays for doctor visits and prescriptions go away once you hit your deductibles. Am I wrong?
Deductibles are how much you have to pay before your insurance covers anything. Some procedures and visits are subject to copay immediately without having to satisfy your deductible first but the downside is that they also don't count towards your deductible. The "out-of-pocket maximum" is the amount you have to meet before all of your costs go away.

Here's a shot of the main points of my insurance plan:
Untitled.png

In my case, I can go to the ER for the low low price of $950 and my insurance will cover everything after that regardless of my $6,000 deductible. That $950 will not go towards my deductible though. If I have met my deductible but not my $7,900 out of pocket max, I still have to pay the $950.

edit: It's not listed in the screenshot but I have a 50% coinsurance amount for primary care physician services after my deductible is met. Outpatient services after the deductible cost me $600 + 50% coinsurance.

And you know what, I want that Private Insurance if it means I can see better doctors. I want the better healthcare, plain and simple. I want people who know what they are doing.
So why is Rand Paul going to Canada for surgery? It's not like money is an issue for him

And are you sure we have the better healthcare? We're 31st in life expectancy worldwide behind almost every developed country.
 
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HardlinesFour

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And are you sure we have the better healthcare? We're 31st in life expectancy worldwide behind almost every developed country.
That has literally nothing to do with healthcare, and everything to do with the "American" Diet. Over 1 in 3 Americans eat fast food on a daily basis. We lead the world in some of the highest rates of obesity, in every category, including juvenile obesity. The problem is the unhealthy American diet and all the consequences that come along with that. If Americans ate healthier, I'm sure our life expectancy would sharply increase.

So why is Rand Paul going to Canada for surgery? It's not like money is an issue for him
No Clue. They certainly do not have better doctors. Maybe he wishes to visit a specific doctor that was recommended to him. Maybe he wants to see the system in action.

Deductibles are how much you have to pay before your insurance covers anything. Some procedures and visits are subject to copay immediately without having to satisfy your deductible first but the downside is that they also don't count towards your deductible. The "out-of-pocket maximum" is the amount you have to meet before all of your costs go away.

Here's a shot of the main points of my insurance plan:
That is not provided by your employer, right? Did you get that plan from the marketplace?
 

HardlinesFour

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This is what my insurance entails. I've always had a fairly similar policy, and the copays have only differed a little. This is my current plan I receive from my husbands firm.
1548624673205.png
 
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