MODERATED General Politics Thread II

can't touch this

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Look I’m far from being a lolbertarian weirdo who thinks heroin addiction is no big deal. I’m only saying that I think it can be managed in a much better way than we’re doing now.

Guess what, when addicts are hitting the “low point” is precisely when they are most desperate and will do anything without regard to the consequences, because heroin addiction is so strong. That includes engaging with other parts of the criminal underworld, such as prostitution, which in turn leads to more crimes. If it helps prevent crime then why oppose it? Let's not put ideology in front of results.
 

HardlinesFour

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Canada's healthcare system is so much better than ours it's not even funny.
It may very well be. I don't know, I've never used the system, and I doubt that you have either.

But I can tell you first hand... Medicaid for All -- is just about useless for me. In the State of New York, the system just doesn't work.
 

HRZone

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Look I’m far from being a lolbertarian weirdo who thinks heroin addiction is no big deal. I’m only saying that I think it can be managed in a much better way than we’re doing now.

Guess what, when addicts are hitting the “low point” is precisely when they are most desperate and will do anything without regard to the consequences, because heroin addiction is so strong. That includes engaging with other parts of the criminal underworld, such as prostitution, which in turn leads to more crimes. If it helps prevent crime then why oppose it? Let's not put ideology in front of results.

When you put an addict in jail, they will get out and because they don't receive treatment they will go back
 

seasonaldude

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It may very well be. I don't know, I've never used the system, and I doubt that you have either.

But I can tell you first hand... Medicaid for All -- is just about useless for me. In the State of New York, the system just doesn't work.
MediCARE for All not Medicaid. Ask seniors about taking away their Medicare. It's a great, universal single-payer system that we want to expand to everyone. Even right-wing nutjobs like it in their own unique, completely misinformed way.

 

HardlinesFour

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When you put an addict in jail, they will get out and because they don't receive treatment they will go back
They have to motivated to go to rehab. A few nights of a stint in jail is not going to make someone want to get sober. But a few months certainly will give someone a bit of reflection time. It can also be a very positive thing, as in most cases, it’s a forced detox.
 

tholmes

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They have to motivated to go to rehab. A few nights of a stint in jail is not going to make someone want to get sober. But a few months certainly will give someone a bit of reflection time. It can also be a very positive thing, as in most cases, it’s a forced detox.
A forced detox can prove very unsafe, especially for long-time addicts. After being on something for so long, addicts can become completely dependant on the drug to function at all, let alone well. Suddenly removing their fix can cause serious drug withdrawal, especially with alcohol.

Drug and Alcohol Withdrawal Symptoms| Addictions and Recovery - https://www.addictionsandrecovery.org/withdrawal.htm
 

HardlinesFour

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MediCARE for All not Medicaid. Ask seniors about taking away their Medicare. It's a great, universal single-payer system that we want to expand to everyone. Even right-wing nutjobs like it in their own unique, completely misinformed way.
I’ve heard Medicaid for all purposed. Medicare (Senior Care) still doesn’t cover all of my specialists. I invite you guys to check out the Medicare website and see if your doctors are available in the system.
Physician Compare - https://www.medicare.gov/physiciancompare/

Beyond that - my entire point is the Medicaid system does not work for New Yorkers in particular, despite supposedly being at the frontier and most progressive of these issues. Supposedly in Wyoming, acceptance is widespread. That’s wonderful.

But my point still remains, I do not like the idea of this watered down insurance. I want to have access to the most qualified doctors I can find — and many of those do not accept the Medicaid or Medicare program.

People have this false vision in my opinion about how these programs work - and many don’t seem to understand the reality... that their healthcare options could be severely limited. I know myself, that I had a false vision and understanding until a few nights ago.
 
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That has literally nothing to do with healthcare, and everything to do with the "American" Diet. Over 1 in 3 Americans eat fast food on a daily basis. We lead the world in some of the highest rates of obesity, in every category, including juvenile obesity. The problem is the unhealthy American diet and all the consequences that come along with that. If Americans ate healthier, I'm sure our life expectancy would sharply increase.
I'm sure our infant mortality rate being higher than most other developed countries is due to our diet too right?
How does infant mortality in the U.S. compare to other countries? - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker - https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/infant-mortality-u-s-compare-countries/#item-start

That is not provided by your employer, right? Did you get that plan from the marketplace?
We lost our group plan in 2008 because they decided we didn't have enough employees to sufficiently defray their risk. Nevermind the fact that their true risk is everyone they cover as a whole.

My premium costs me $400/mth and the marketplace was actually the best deal I could find. Applying for insurance directly through the companies yield even higher costs.

This is what my insurance entails. I've always had a fairly similar policy, and the copays have only differed a little.
Yeah, I haven't had numbers like that since I first left Target in 2005. I could get on my wife's group plan but the cost is an additional $200 per month on top of what I pay now. Sure, the deductible is $2000 lower but that's more than offset by the paycheck deduction. I'd rather risk paying an extra $2000 in deductible rather than guarantee paying $2400 for a "maybe".
 

HRZone

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Yeah....I've been around addicts most of my life and that is not how that works most of the time.
Exactly, they leave jail homeless and jobless without the tools to change the restrictive pattern. Sure not everyone wants help but some just need help getting to treatment. Mass incarceration is putting a Band-Aid on a bullet wound.
 

commiecorvus

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Yeah....I've been around addicts most of my life and that is not how that works most of the time.

Having recently helped with a someone who was a functioning heroin addict (went to school, worked full time, surprised a lot of people I can tell you) for many years, this is true.
He had to decide he wanted to quit on his own.
In fact he had quit cold turkey a number of times in the past, I learned, sometimes for a year or two but always went back.
The reason he came out to us was he found he couldn't quit by himself this time, which made him realize he really was in trouble.
Not your usual junkie I know but the fact is there are a lot of doctors, lawyers, very smart people who become addicts too.
They are not all street junkies.

The other thing we learned was how fucking expensive it is to get clean.
My insurance is great and covers so many things others don't, like anything more than the most basic of inpatient treatment for drug addiction.
If you want to go someplace decent i.e. not in Alaska, it will be out of pocket, or out of your friends pockets when you run out of money.
The obnoxious part is that even a half way decent place is still a bit of a snake pit with overworked staff, piss poor communication, and high counselor turnover.
Outpatient services which go on for months after that are covered just as badly.

The one good thing is he is clean and sober.
A good support group of friends and family also makes a huge difference.
Using jails as our main method of dealing with drug addiction is horrible.
 

Antennae

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That has literally nothing to do with healthcare, and everything to do with the "American" Diet. Over 1 in 3 Americans eat fast food on a daily basis. We lead the world in some of the highest rates of obesity, in every category, including juvenile obesity. The problem is the unhealthy American diet and all the consequences that come along with that. If Americans ate healthier, I'm sure our life expectancy would sharply increase.
I imagine it's pretty hard for a lot of people to eat healthy when it's cheaper to get certain fast foods, not to mention having the time to actually make healthy meals at home between jobs and sleep.
 

HardlinesFour

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I imagine it's pretty hard for a lot of people to eat healthy when it's cheaper to get certain fast foods, not to mention having the time to actually make healthy meals at home between jobs and sleep.
Ironically, the CDC Study found that it’s higher income households, at the upper tier of the middle class that eat out the most, while the lower income households generally ate less fast food.
 

HardlinesFour

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HardlinesFour

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A forced detox can prove very unsafe, especially for long-time addicts. After being on something for so long, addicts can become completely dependant on the drug to function at all, let alone well. Suddenly removing their fix can cause serious drug withdrawal, especially with alcohol.
For what it's worth -- I helped a former boyfriend kick his 11 Year daily use of Xanax. At the point, he was consuming almost 2mg a day and had built up such a tolerance that he no longer had any medicinal or therapeutic effect. The doctor who had originally prescribed the medication, downplayed the risks and didn't tell him how things would progress. Needless to say, It took him almost three weeks of constant sickness and tapering down his dose over the course of a month to fully get off the drug. I wouldn't say I'm well versed in the first-hand knowledge of Heroin or Alcohol addiction, but I certainly have seen first hand the effects of Benzos.

I know -- it's a very, cruel, awful way to detox. But... forced detox in a prison or jail is still an effective form of drug treatment. Especially, if it's followed by mandatory counseling or supervised parole.
 
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Ironically, the CDC Study found that it’s higher income households, at the upper tier of the middle class that eat out the most, while the lower income households generally ate less fast food.
Lower income households eat out less but they often end up buying the worst foods at the store. If a single mom is working 2-3 jobs to make ends meet, dinner is most likely going to be whatever frozen crap is shoved in the microwave or oven or stuff with little effort but very high calories like ramen/mac n cheese. Those are also foods that are very cheap, easily available in bulk, and you don't have to worry about spoilage.

forced detox in a prison or jail is still an effective form of drug treatment.
It's only effective in the short term. It takes a solid support system from friends/family to have a lasting impact. You could ask any junkie who managed to fully kick the habit and stay clean and almost every one of them will tell you that there was at least 1 significant person who was holding their hand through it the entire way.
 

commiecorvus

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So the Texas Secretary of State claims 95,000 registered voters aren't citizens of the US and it turns out they are?
Sound like some voter fraud to me...one the Republicans side.

Texas Official’s Claim About Citizenship of 95,000 Is Called Into Doubt - https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/29/us/texas-voter-citizenship-list.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR1PQe01JToVv2Dt-3vMOuAeOJQEPYPvqo_WApvYfua9v1h6op9IW7lBotc


"A claim made last week by the Texas secretary of state — that 95,000 registered voters had a citizenship status that could not be determined — appeared to fall apart on Tuesday when local election officials said many of the people were known to be United States citizens.
Some registered to vote when they applied for a driver’s license at the Texas Department of Public Safety, which requires them to prove citizenship status to state officials. Others registered at naturalization ceremonies, a data point to which state officials said they did not have access.
Election officials in Harris County, home to Houston, said they received 30,000 names — the largest single batch of potential noncitizen voters — from the secretary of state’s office on Monday. By Tuesday afternoon, they had determined that roughly 400 of those names were duplicates and 60 percent so far of the others were United States citizens.
“We are not willing to conclude at this point that we know of anybody on this list who is not a United States citizen,” Douglas Ray, special assistant attorney for Harris County, said. “We may determine that at a later time, and we are going to investigate that very carefully, but as you can tell by the numbers, so far things ain’t looking good for this list,” referring to the state’s claim.
Local officials reported similar findings on Tuesday in Fort Bend County, outside of Houston; Travis County, home to the state capital, Austin; and Williamson County, outside of Austin. All said they had been instructed by the secretary of state’s office on Tuesday to disregard the names of voters who registered at state public-safety offices.
On Tuesday, the office of David Whitley, who was appointed secretary of state in December by Gov. Greg Abbott, said in a statement that it was continuing to work with local officials “to assist them in verifying eligibility of Texas voters.”
“This is to ensure that any registered voters who provided proof of citizenship at the time they registered to vote will not be required to provide proof of citizenship as part of the counties’ examination,” the statement said.
In an announcement last Friday, Mr. Whitley’s office questioned the citizenship status of 95,000 voters. That finding grew out of an 11-month investigation by the secretary of state’s office and the Texas Department of Public Safety, which declined to comment on Tuesday."
 
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Texas has some of the strictest voter registration laws in the nation. Only (a large number of ) idiots believed that story was going to be true.
 

TTGOz

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I try to eat healthy on a budget. Unfortunately, it means I'm eating almost the same thing every week.

$1.39 pack of eggs, two every morning.
$3.69 for a pack of romaine for salads.
$1.79 for caeser dressing
$6.99 for frozen chicken breasts
Water from the tap, I buy and drink coffee and tea to brew at home.

-10% for discount, another 10% off for wellness discount if I get simply balanced. My monthly food budget is roughly around $50-$60. I made barely $15,000 last year. Got a few leads on actual full time jobs year round for $16-$18 an hour, got an interview for car sales next week when its warmer.

I'll mix it up every once in a while but I'm eating mainly eggs and salads and misc fruits and veggies + whatever my parents make for dinner if they do.

Like a lot of issues, its a general society issue. A higher minimum wage could possibly yield better eating habits if it meant people could quit their second or third jobs and had money to cook and eat decently.
 
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Isn't Simply Balanced much more expensive though?

My grocery budget is probably ~$500/month for a family of 4. That includes a fair amount of junkish food for my kids' lunches as well as various home/pet supplies too. I don't feel bad about including a yogurt/jello, granola bar, and chips to go with my kids' sandwich and Gatorade for lunch at school since both of them are very scrawny. My oldest is in the bottom 5% of height/weight for his age and my youngest is average height but low weight. They need the extra calories and the Gatorade is for lunch only; the rest of the time it's either milk or water.

That said, it's not too difficult to eat pretty healthy on a budget if you have the time and energy to cook. Frozen chicken, dried beans, rice, frozen/canned veggies, eggs (Basically the WIC foods) combined with splurging a little for spices can provide decently balanced meals. The other problem is that people get stuck in a rut easily. You get used to throwing frozen chicken nuggets in the oven or just boiling water for Ramen.

I've been there too. Up until a few years ago, I absolutely hated messing with cooking. Dinner would often be "pull stuff from freezer, stick in oven" whenever my wife worked a closing shift. The result was me being a little in the obese range of BMI. Once my wife finished her degree and got a good job, I was able to cut my hours at Target down significantly and we both made it a goal to eat better now that we had the means and time to do it. I put in a lot of effort to learn how to do various simple recipes and discovered I was beginning to enjoy cooking. The change in diet (combined with exercising 5 days a week for 30-45 minutes) helped us lose 50 lbs each and put me within the normal range. Now I have a whole binder full of recipes I compiled.
 

TTGOz

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Isn't Simply Balanced much more expensive though?

My grocery budget is probably ~$500/month for a family of 4. That includes a fair amount of junkish food for my kids' lunches as well as various home/pet supplies too. I don't feel bad about including a yogurt/jello, granola bar, and chips to go with my kids' sandwich and Gatorade for lunch at school since both of them are very scrawny. My oldest is in the bottom 5% of height/weight for his age and my youngest is average height but low weight. They need the extra calories and the Gatorade is for lunch only; the rest of the time it's either milk or water.

That said, it's not too difficult to eat pretty healthy on a budget if you have the time and energy to cook. Frozen chicken, dried beans, rice, frozen/canned veggies, eggs (Basically the WIC foods) combined with splurging a little for spices can provide decently balanced meals. The other problem is that people get stuck in a rut easily. You get used to throwing frozen chicken nuggets in the oven or just boiling water for Ramen.

I've been there too. Up until a few years ago, I absolutely hated messing with cooking. Dinner would often be "pull stuff from freezer, stick in oven" whenever my wife worked a closing shift. The result was me being a little in the obese range of BMI. Once my wife finished her degree and got a good job, I was able to cut my hours at Target down significantly and we both made it a goal to eat better now that we had the means and time to do it. I put in a lot of effort to learn how to do various simple recipes and discovered I was beginning to enjoy cooking. The change in diet (combined with exercising 5 days a week for 30-45 minutes) helped us lose 50 lbs each and put me within the normal range. Now I have a whole binder full of recipes I compiled.
Yeah most SB stuff is maybe $2-$3 more, sometimes only $1 more, so I usually stick to the market pantry brand, since they are usually on cart wheel too for an extra 5% off. I was in the morbid obesity BMI although I didn't really look like it, I think I had something like 36%-38% body fat, I've lost nearly forty pounds the last six months so no idea where it's at now. Once this polar vortex ends, I need to get back into the gym, and I'm going to. I haven't 100% started the diet I mentioned but it's virtually zero carb, if anything, low carb. I want to mix in some whole grain wheat bread to keep my carbs up but they're gonna be extremely fibrous carbs. In other words, healthy carbs.

I got into cooking watching a lot of Gordon Ramsay shit with my girlfriend since she likes watching him a lot, but doesn't cook or get inspired by it. It's extremely important to me to pinch my pennies and live a minimalist life right now, especially since I barely broke $15,000 last year, awful. I was working mostly 32-36 hour weeks but back last year January-April I was hardly able to break twenty hour weeks and I think that really fucked my earning potential up.

Even if I made $15/hr or more, I don't think my food lifestyle or budget would be changing. I eat practically the same thing every day already, and have done so the last five years. I ate a lot of Subway and junk food when I worked at Subway, and now at Target it's usually just deli chicken, a bagel, chicken caeser salad, and a low carb energy drink. I got a bag of romaine to chop up for lettuce and chicken to cook to prep for the next week. I also thought about using whole grain wheat bread to make croutons. Living at $15/hr would be slightly more doable, if anything would make my bank account a little more flexible.

Anyways, I've been reading recently about the ex-Starbucks CEO is running Independently for President in 2020. I don't really know what to think yet, but part of me says "He seems okay."
I like some of the Dem runner ups so far, but I also just like the idea of socialized healthcare and education, which many are looking to develop should they become President. Once we get a little more info on everyone who is planning to run I have a feeling some Democrat runner ups will be to "social" for me.
 
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