Archived Overnight Change to 4 am and Remodel - Should I Transfer?

What should I do?

  • Transfer

    Votes: 5 29.4%
  • Stay

    Votes: 12 70.6%

  • Total voters
    17
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Hey, all. I'm new to Break Room and fairly new to the Target Community in general (having started off with the overnight flow team for seasonal, Q4 of last year), but am hoping to pick the brains of some seasoned vets, as I see many of you are. It's a loaded post, but I'll try to be as pithy as possible. But there's a lot going on at the store I work at. I am trying to make sense of it best I can, but appreciate your advice/feedback in advance.

I've gotten pretty attached to the store I work at over the 9 months that I've worked there, but a lot of what I like most about my job - the crazy 10 pm - 6 am hours, a constant 37.5, the team members and management - will be changing in about a matter of weeks. We will be shifting to the dreaded 4 am process. It's one of the main breaktime topics of conversation for the "blue doors club" and on my mind a lot. We are all given the attractive option of transferring to a busier Target about 20 minutes down the road that will be staying with the standard 10 - 6. Several team members have already jumped ship, a few others are transferring elsewhere, and yet a couple more are retiring from Target altogether.

Our LOD is particularly desperate for team members who contribute a lot during the unload, the most important 1 - 1.5 hours of the shift, as far as I'm concerned. There are, including me, only 5 who throw trucks on the team, including a high-energy TL who always seems to fill in whenever whoever is on the grid for it calls out. They are among the best at blackline and bowling for the main sections - chem and market - of Green (my LOD loves putting me there during the unload), so it is not always easy to find a balance between backroom and bowlers. Usually, a 1,500 - 2,000-piece-truck (our average) either takes 1.5 hours to unload - with the line getting backed up for minutes on at least 2 or 3 occasions - or we finish in a little over an hour with enough pallets on the floor to take us past midnight break for bowling. Either way, it is usually not until about 12:45 that we are aisles.

Now that a full remodel is underway, it has become even more chaotic, with the projects team taking away some of the key flow team members for their team. My problems are maybe best evidenced by last night, the first time I drove home from work seriously asked myself what I'm doing with my life. We took a double (adding up to about 3,400), very rare for us outside of Q4, but most common on Tuesday, where a lot of the ETL's hour budget goes. But one of the trucks was delayed, so we ended up with a nightmarish back-to-back unload that took us until 12:45 and c0mpletely wore me out, as I went from unloading a panel of the first truck to bowling to unloading the second 1,800 piece truck all without a break. I was praised for how much I got done by the re-model team, who needed a few we had to keep for the unloads for their team. It was the first time I thought that break was waay too short.

The next 5 hours were like working in a warzone, especially in the heavy lines with two trucks worth of freight, considering there was no space in the racetrack for the cages we dispose of cardboard in, remodel stuff all over place and no smartcarts to be had. I was without a MyDevice to boot, since the PDA system was down and backroom team needed them as their only means of backstocking. Some new 2nd's were just set, so I probably sent at least 2 or 3 products back that were "critically low" or empty in the 2nd. The chaos that goes with so many different teams and contractors working in a tight space will pass, but that doesn't make it any less frustrating.

The store will be losing ALL of its regular unloaders - except for the TL who unloads and possibly me - not to mention some of our best presentation and backroom members, including the presentation and signing TL. I know how important strong unloaders and bowlers are for the 4 am process and my LOD has tried to talk me into staying when I expressed some doubt, citing a forum post about the change that says the main purpose of the change is to push to get the truck finished by 8, when the store opens, sending home most flow team members who won't have anything to do, clearing out P-fresh, $ spot, and miscellaneous projects notwithstanding. "I always hook you up with hours," he told me, true as I'm one of the only ones on the schedule who gets a steady 37.5. The couple others I can think of who do will not be staying. I am worried about partial shifts. He had sent me from training in the backroom - where I could have added value and possibly hours post-change - a few months ago, but gave up on that when several subpar hardlines pushers were let go. I told him I was considering transferring to the other store. He argued that there is constant repush, little team rapport, and it is aesthetically inferior, the latter being true, but a minor consideration.

What should I do? I have to decide soon. I will either be losing some friends and most likely hours or leaving the store where I broke into everything, one I have grown pretty fond of and I have an increasingly major role at. Neither sounds like that attractive of an option, but I have to pick my poison sooner than later.
 
I agree with HLM about checking out the other store. If it were me, I would consider whether I would be willing to give up the overnight hours and move to dayside. Its a whole different world.
 
We were a 4am unload that went to 6. You seem to have a good working relationship with your tl. Flow always needs a good tm leader to keep wave moving. Your tl can't be everywhere. You can be that person. You will keep your hours. Don't jump ship yet. The grass always looks greener on the other side.
 
I agree with HLM about checking out the other store. If it were me, I would consider whether I would be willing to give up the overnight hours and move to dayside. Its a whole different world.
+1

Also consider that your ETL values you and shows it by giving you lots of hours over consistent shifts, and that's not likely to change. They could have you work part of your shift doing something else once the truck is done. On the flip side, you have no idea what the payroll situation will be at the other store. They could have plenty of TMs with all the transfers they're taking and might only be able to give shorter shifts. You are an unknown quantity to them, so you wouldn't necessarily be favored for more hours.

But as mentioned above, it all comes down to overnight vs early morning. Not many people would want to work overnight, starting at 10pm. And even fewer would want to switch from overnight to starting 6 hours later and working long past sunrise.
 
Throwers and bowling are both disappearing within the next year and a half or so. One way or another you're going to have to learn something new. I'd stick with what you know, and you know your current leadership favors you. That's quite an asset to have.
 
Thanks for the warm welcome and all the advice. It's appreciated, since I try to stay away from all the gossip that goes on at work. Maybe I should not be as concerned about losing hours as TM's who are transferring are insinuating, as there will still be just as much work to go around and I will have to contribute at least much, at least at first with a team full of rookies who will need trained by my TL, who already has his hands full. My STL told me out of the blue the other day if there is ever a week that I am not scheduled for all 5 nights to let her know. My LOD told me flat out that they could not afford to lose me. On the other hand, I don't think I could be as much of a difference maker at the other store, where they must have plenty of unloaders (and soon to have more), since they take doubles every night. I only feel like I deserve my hours because I'm because I'm honestly one of the few TM's there in my role who tries to cram as much work into those hours as possible. So many TM's have already made up their minds to transfer or retire. They can only take their work so seriously, knowing their future isn't there. Some are just going through the motions. As such, morale is much lower than the busy Q4 time when I started.

Re: Visiting the other store, I used to go there all the time; it's only a 10-minute drive from me, but that's only a 15-minutes shorter each way than the one I work at now. It's more lively, but louder and messier. Upon thinking more about it, I won't be flowing the same way I do here initially, since the layout, custom blocks, and possibly unloading process will be different from the one it took me months to get this comfortable with. I would feel a little dirty going there to talk to management about a position there.

I would not want to go dayside though. Interacting with customers is not my strongsuit. I try to be helpful, but like to stay in the zone with the take at hand. I lose focus even when I'm interrupted during bowl outs. I like keeping busy working with product without interruption or noise, to the point that I'm one of the only HL pushers who does not listen to music. Even though I like the spontaneity of the job, I'm most productive when stuff is structured and quiet . I know it won't always be that way, but that is why the remodel is mayhem for me.

What I will probably do is stick with what I know and hopefully learn new skills. I don't want to be pigeonholed into one very specific role they have a desperate need at, especially if this unload process is eventually going by the wayside. It could be a grind at times. Thank God each night is so different from the next. I don't to be burn out. That said, I will contribute however I can and gives them a good reason to give me plenty of hours. If I don't get those hours and it becomes less fulfilling, I will then visit the other store with the intention of seeing how good of a fit I could be there.

I guess what I'm wondering most is if you all think I get just as many hours following the change. When my LOD mentioned the possibility of partial shifts, I was noticeably worried and he told me something along the lines of it being new to him too, so that we will all be figuring it out together as a team. Why did my store decide on the new/ different unload and flow schedule? It is really because, as we were informed, we narrowly missed sales by $1 million in Q4, so we were "downgraded" to a different category? Will my LOD's hour budget be tighter?
 
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My store went from overnight to 4am. A bunch of folks transferred to the overnight where I now work. Of the 4 people who transferred only one is left and it's only been two months.

Not all overnight processes are the same. I think it's more valuable to work with a team you know and appreciate then to go to a store just for the process time. Heck the store down the road may go to 4am. Wouldn't surprise me if high volume stores lost their overnight process eventually with the exception of quarter 4.
 
I was throwing the truck last night with a team member who is being trained by our overnight logistics ETL, learning directly from him. He is headed to the store down the road in a few weeks and asked me if I'd be interested in being the one who gets that training once he leaves, which I enthusiastily agreed to.

I couldn't see myself transferring at this point. If I went somewhere else, there might be bigger trucks, hours I'm used to, etc, but I don't think my heart would be in it. I could already see there are a lot of changes that go along with losing the overnight process.

Last night was the first night we experimented with pushing - for now just market - off of u-boats, eliminating bowling in that section, supposedly faster, and the best way to push while guests are in those aisles, since we are ideally not supposed to have pallets, jalers, or boxes on the floor once the store opens. It was slower pushing for me, but that's natural for the first night of the experiment. I already knew the shift will bring with it a lot of changes, but I'm starting to welcome that, knowing they are as eager to teach me as I am to learn.
 
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I would agree with HRZone, back when I was flow, I almost transferred to another store when we went to 4am. I decided to stay, lo and behold, that store has transitioned to 4 as well. I think there's only 1 overnight store left in my entire state. It seems like they're really pushing for early morning flow processes regardless of volume.
 
My previous store just switched to the 4am process along with every other store that wasn't already at 4am within the general area. From my understanding is that every store will soon be at the 4am process as it is a corporate decision as it brings more team members in during open hours and more team members who are able to assist guests and push red cards. There is a store near by that is extremely low volume that actually starts at 6am. I would maybe check with that store you may transfer to and see if there are any plans in the future to transition to the 4am process and if there is might as well stay where you are if they are giving you the hours. I am not sure if this is every state but here you get a "Shift Bonus" for working graveyard. basically any hours between 12am - 8am you get a small increase. It used to be $1.00 but as of recently corporate also decided to lower that down to $0.50. I think the whole 4am shift is to help them basically save money and make more by having more people push red cards as even backroom team members are expected to be asking guests about red cards.
 
Thanks for all the insight. It's tough to get objective opinions on losing the ON at work and I've been trying not to pry, what with all the politics of it. Nobody can say for sure about what it will be like anyway.

Our change starts next week - not sure why they picked the last week of the quarter - but there have already been plenty of changes, including many dayside TM's and higher-up's coming in at 4. I'm not sure how many flow TM's they are hiring (they are losing even more workers from ON than was initially thought), but I'm sure there will be a lot of overlap between the logistics end of it and the retail/sales side. As it is, the first week of the new schedule has me on for 4 nights rather than the usual 5 - not ideal, but tolerable - with some of those shifts distinguishing the 8:30 am - 12 pm hours as "consumables and salesfloor" (meaning I will be pushing market off of the U-boats while the store is open) rather than my usual "unload and stocking." The other nights, I am only assuming I will be helping out in the backroom, which I'm still being trained in. Will I be dealing with separate teams as well, such as zoning and in-stocks?

Re: the $1 shift bonus for the graveyard shift hours, HR told us that we will be reimbursed for the loss by having a $1 raise for those hours to cancel it out. People are indeed saying that the store down the road should eventually lose its ON eventually too. It's one of only two stores in the district that still runs on a 10 pm unload.

Anyway, we'll see/will let you know how it all plays out. It's a change that I don't think anyone at the store is looking forward to, but I'll keep doing my thing and keep an open mind about it.
 
So, I'm a few weeks into the 4am process and it has been a dissapointing, given the hopeful mindset I've tried to maintain throughout. It's been tough. I have unloaded with about a dozen different TMs, most of whom never got any training for it. I've managed plenty of tough things since I worked for Target, including running a sub-4 hour marathon with just one day of rest after seven work days in a row, but I assure you, nothing is tougher than throwing a > 2,000-piece truck with a TM who insists on stacking a handful of boxes before dropping them it onto line and disseminating them onto the line before searching for labels. I'be pushed my share of heavy lines bombarded with guests. I've partnered in black line with TMs, new and former-dayside, who have no clue what they're doing, have trained aforementioned TM's while still trying to keep a decent pace and staying focused in everything I'm doing. I somehow manage to bowl out chem, paper, pets, and seasonal/sports - goal is to bowl out all the boxes that go on the floor by 6 (those sections + HBA) and have it pushed by the time the store opens at 8 - on pace with the unloads albeit slow ones (about 90 mins on average). About twice per week, I am in the backroom all day.

Market gets done by flow TM's whose shift starts and ends a couple hours later. Since it is pushed from the red u-boats as opposed to boxes on the floor - blue is pushed from carts in front of their respective section - we basically have all day to push it. I am never on the grid for market anymore (consumables and sales floor), since the team lead who has the most P-fresh responsibilities takes away one or two TM's pushing "dry consumables" aisles" to "frozen," always seen as a secondary thing once the floor was finished during the overnight process.

I have never worked harder, and I saw my reward on the schedule that was released today - 22.5 hours, after months or nothing but 30 and 37.5! I know that I losing my hours to noobs, but that does not make me feel any better. It is inventory now and we have been getting one double per week. I am beyond asking for more hours at this point. I'm not a beggar.

My work should speak for itself; the last two doubles, I ran around for 8-plus miles over 3 hours of non-stop bowling, auto-fills and truck push for seasonal/sports, paper, chem, and pets, combining the latter three into one pallet whenever the unload slowed down. None of the four pallets ever even filled up before I pulled them. I am slowly learning backroom too, getting faster with my pulls, and at least competetent with backstocking, something I need to work on.

How am I supposed to do that with three-day weeks though? I understand it is a business - not a meritocracy - but I am not asking to get ahead. I just don't want to go backwards. What should I do? I am beyond asking for more hours. I have a BA and plenty of people in my life, the ones closest to me, discouraging me from continuing to pursue Target as my main focus, citing the fact that it is not full-time. They want me to look elsewhere, but this is the first job I have that I love. I want to prove them all wrong, but management is making it hard. What should - or can - I do? I am feeling stuck. At least somebody tell me "it's alright, just stay course and your hard work will pay off," because nobody else is and there is no evidence that it will.
 
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I have never worked harder, and I saw my reward on the schedule that was released today - 22.5 hours, after months or nothing but 30 and 37.5!
Wow that's pretty shitty of them. What happened to your STL and ETL promising to keep your hours up and do whatever it takes to keep you? Have you talked to them yet?

"I always hook you up with hours," he told me, true as I'm one of the only ones on the schedule who gets a steady 37.5
My STL told me out of the blue the other day if there is ever a week that I am not scheduled for all 5 nights to let her know. My LOD told me flat out that they could not afford to lose me.
 
I am beyond asking for more hours
Leadership should reward your hard work with hours. Unfortunately, since you are a Vet and a loyal one at that, they will reduce your hours because "they can" and give them to the (noobs) as you call them because new tm's don't know the politics of Target. My suggestion is to look for work elsewhere especially since you have a BA and a drive to succeed. You should never work and not be compensated favorably for it!! Good luck @keepushing
 
Asants We have 5 trucks per week 6 am start. I am a flow vet. I am asked everyday to extend, We are very short on flow tms. We are end 2 end. I would talk to your tl about your hrs. I bet a lot of the noobs won't make it to or thru 4th quarter. Hours should be picking up. I would not give up yet! My store would never let a cross trained good worker quit without asking why.
 
@SFSFun, I am fairly certain - though maybe you would know more about this than I- that the new schedule for flow is not generated solely by the Logistics ETL who would give me my steady fill of hours. That's why he said before the change that he could never promise me a steady 37.5, but "it should be close."

Maybe I am being naive, but I think it is beyond his control. Does anyone know about the details of schedule making here? I am looking at this from the outside in, but I am assuming the "hour budgets" are divided even more so among the different ETLs, as there is so much overlap. And therein lies the main problem, at least for me, with the process: too much mixing with the logistics and sales elements of the business, ones that I wish did not co-exist. There are a few TM's who are particularly pushy with getting their hours and I don't want to be one of them. I don't want to create tension that could only lead to negative stuff. I would rather walk away from the store than that.

It's not so much the money I'm not making on the days I'm not there as it is missed opportunities to learn and just be there. So, it is disheartening for me and part of me takes the 22.5 as an insult, when the rational part of me knows that it is a business thing. Still, it has me up even now, keeping me from getting the 7 hours sleep I need to work well.

I kinda miss overnight. Those who are overnight flow should not take the luxury of having an overnight for granted, especially how relatively peaceful and structured it is. There was a simple sense of satisfaction in a one-hour unload or knowing that floor was finished and clean by the time my shift was over. It actually felt like we were a team. Things that are meant to be divided are forced together too much now for there to be any kind of unity. I am hoping it will only get better.

@Noiinteam, I hope so. For every five new flow members we've taken in, we've averaged one good one (and one very good one, so far), two rough-around-the-edges but might pan out, and two that honestly just don't get it and it's hard to believe they will. With the good ones improving and about half of the question mark ones becoming answers, I could envision a good team, one that is much smoother to work with than in this transitions, with team members who are earning their hours.

At least, the last two days I've spent the whole day doing pulls, black line, and backstocking. Backroom has been the only team members who have been keeping their hours since the change, so they maybe they want me to convert to fall into that category. Backroom admittedly has added value since the change. What with the feeding frenzy of boxes on the floor before the store opens and added time to push market, they have their hands full. The unloads are also so long that they cannot complete their work batches on time since a couple of the locations are blocked off during the unload. It's a lot of work for them. I remember when I used to think those distant check-lane second-locations I used to just toss into the smart cart would just disappear into the void of the backroom when I sent them back lol I only have respect for the team members who are back there five days per week.
 
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The problem with overnight is the teams are much more inefficient. As someone who worked in a store that went from overnight to 4am, the team does much better when they have a dayside LOD checking their progress and getting them out as quickly as they can.
 
@HRZone, that is not the case at the store I work for. There are two dayside TL's who are heavily involved in flow. One's emphasis has been on dragging the faster vet hardlines pushers to P-fresh and the other one always has a TM flexing in should-be-backstock back-to-school seasonal that is not MPG yet when there are usually still boxes in domestics left. Both school stuff (and those fill groups are very full, even the pallets that require a WAVE to reach stacked high) and p-fresh, ice cream in particular, sell well this time of the year, so I totally get it, but we would actually finish the floor earlier if it weren't for their conflicting agendas. I understand why they prioritize what they do, but priorities are different from what I have been used to for months.

@Hardlinesmaster It sounds good in theory, but I don't want to divide my commitments. Honestly, now I don't much else other than eat, sleep, everyday chores, work, and work out. That's alright since I have a focus. I just want to believe that focus is going to lead me somewhere long-term because a lot of people don't think it is, though today I heard something encouraging.

Anyway, re: my own agenda and future, I don't know what to think anymore. What I didn't mention is that the team lead I mentioned earlier who trained me and would truck the truck with me a couple days a week has been gone since a week after the change. He recently started teaching at a summer basketball program for kids and that conflicted with the new shift, so he had overslept and come to work twice in three days after the change, so he was fired.

There is also one female team member who has been working a lot with the logistics ETL, my boss, lately. There is talk about her getting promoted. I heard parts of a conversation between him and her and that's sure the vibe I got from it. Today, I was was pushing the last couple carts and he was showing her how to change an item's actual capacity so a CAF that doesn't fit doesn't keep getting sent back and forth everyday. He said jokingly that if she sticks with him she'll learn everything. Then re: me, "he doesn't know, but he's my next project." "Project for what," I asked. "If he doesn't go somewhere else," the girl said," before he could answer. It's as if there's always that carrot dangling just close enough in view to have me think I can reach it, but really I'm fine with a job witn a job that is a 3:1 grind:learn-new-stuff ratio, as mine is now. What has me losing patience is everything is lost from losing the overnight process, mainly the hours.
 
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But it's not just a tease. He told me today that, in days where he is LOD to come in half an hour early, so that I can learn how to acknowledge the truck, disarm security, etc. and that I will get my five days every week, but since the schedule is already made, wait until the dates get closer so he has a better idea of what the days that I'm off look like in terms of the truck's breakdown.

Also after my bowlout, Aforementioned team lead who is pretty much in charge of the market side of green asked how I'm not a team lead what with the way I work and if I have a second job. I said that I don't and it's a compliment that she considers me as being on that level, since I know how much nonstop go-go-go and multitasking their job entails. She said they do work very hard, but so do I, so she's sure I could do it.

I just can't half-commit to this. For me, not fully commiting would more or less be the same as quitting, since I would devote a ton of energy and time into my focus at the moment and would then inevitably shift focus to something. Team members have told me stuff like "I'm going 100 mph when I should only be going 50" and "running like that isn't going to get you anywhere." At this point, I just want to prove anyone with that mentality wrong. Just because I have a BA doesn't mean I am pinned to something linked with academia. When done right, this is hard albeit fun work.
 
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