the cost of illegal immigration

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The fence won't be built because our politicians won't profit from it. They will make much more money on their stocks in the Middle East.


At the end of the day, entering another country illegally is trespassing. It is a crime. No exceptions, no excuses. And again, if I want to enter a country that is not America, I will do it legally. I will show my passport and visa if necessary. Why be disrespectful and not follow the rules when you are a GUEST in a foreign country? Let's not forget that countries aren't required to allow you entry. You are a guest. But this isn't Beauty and the Beast. You're not going to have talking silverware singing and preparing food that you don't even eat. I mean seriously, Belle had all that food and simply tasted it. So sad.
 
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The thread has become a political matter with various viewpoints. Only benefits are freedom of speech & right to vote. There are a posters or two who choose not to vote & still complain about everything.
This thread does nothing to help others & their everyday struggles with fear of being caught.
If you want change, help others out no matter who they are, including the silent ones to become citizens,
 
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Building a fence is wasteful and will barely dent illegal immigration. Penn & Teller did a pretty good demonstration on their show about how useless a border fence is by hiring a bunch of illegal immigrants to build a fence just like one along part of the border and then had them go over, under, and through it.


The fence part starts at 3:07
 
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I think most people realize a fence isn't realistic -- we need to create a culture where once they're here they aren't overlooked or "tolerated" like so many are now. Some of them will get arrested and released and go on to commit a number of crimes - you would think after the first arrest they would get deported?

However that likely won't change as long as Democrats want to coddle them.
 

commiecorvus

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It's not the Democratics.
It's the Republicans who refuse to even come take the issue to the floorfor a vote for fear of mmaking a Democratic president look good.
It's the companies that create the sweat shop conditions because they know the workers can't complain or unionize.

If you want a real solution, unionize all those jobs and make the companies pay living wages.
 
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I love how people complain they can't make a livable wage working a TM position at Target (which a high school kid could do), or flipping burgers at McDonalds. Yet our troops who put their lives on the line for this country get paid crap and no one bats an eye.. Lol.

If people want to get paid a living wage, they need to get a real job.
 
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Military pay is pretty decent. When you see dumb shit like:


They are ignoring the whole host of extra benefits like health care, room and board (or a cash allowance if you move out of the bricks), free college tuition + housing allowance when you get out, combat pay, etc, etc. Base pay looks like crap but there's a fuckton of supplements that go with it.

A single combat deployment paid off my car note and saved enough cash to put a down payment on a 3 bed/2 bath house and furnish it. Very soon, I'm going to put that fat fucking GI Bill to work and finally complete college.
 

oath2order

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I love how people complain they can't make a livable wage working a TM position at Target (which a high school kid could do), or flipping burgers at McDonalds. Yet our troops who put their lives on the line for this country get paid crap and no one bats an eye.. Lol.

If people want to get paid a living wage, they need to get a real job.
Y'know, given that you're a former Target employee, I'm honestly surprised that you're this ignorant on the issues of minimum wage. People say "Get a real job". Okay. Where? Where are all these "real jobs" that people say that you should get? How am I or anyone else supposed to get one of these "real jobs" when the cost of living is so damn high in comparison to the money that we make that all the money goes directly to living, instead of college which would help us get a "real job"? How can I get a "real job" when a good chunk of jobs require a bachelor's degree, minimum?

And what of the people who live in cities, like New York, Washington D.C., or Los Angeles, or any of the suburbs near those cities? What of those people who have to work at Target or McDonalds, along with a second or even third? What of these people, who have to work numerous jobs just to make ends meet?

Is it so bad for these people to ask for a living wage, given that the current federally mandated minimum wage is so low in comparison to inflation?

On another note, I mean no disrespect to soldiers when I say this. I realize that the wars you fight in are the directives of those above you. But I didn't ask for the soldiers to fight in the war. I didn't ask them to put their lives on the line. I can't stand it when people try to guilt me or others by saying things like "THEY PUT THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE FIGHTING FOR YOUR FREEDOM."

Where is this great threat to our freedom? Is it ISIS, the terrorist group that we accidentally formed because we dicked around in the Middle East far longer than we should have? Is it the victims of occupation of the Middle East by American forces, rightfully pissed because our dragnet for any sort of terrorist has led to the murder of countless people, children included? If one is to argue that there is a threat to our freedom in the Middle East, I would argue that that threat is probably something we caused.

Military pay is pretty decent. When you see dumb shit like:


They are ignoring the whole host of extra benefits like health care, room and board (or a cash allowance if you move out of the bricks), free college tuition + housing allowance when you get out, combat pay, etc, etc. Base pay looks like crap but there's a fuckton of supplements that go with it.

A single combat deployment paid off my car note and saved enough cash to put a down payment on a 3 bed/2 bath house and furnish it. Very soon, I'm going to put that fat fucking GI Bill to work and finally complete college.
Say that again for the people sitting in the back who didn't hear it.

How much do soldiers get paid anyways?
 

redeye58

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You could give illegal immigrants an ultimatum of choosing self deportation and waiting a year or two to enter legally or allow them to stay in America with very strict guidelines and rules which would mean they would have to wait 5 to 10 years to apply for citizenship. Those strict guidelines and rules would be if you choose to stay, you better be on your best behavior. If you get arrested, you gone.
I think however if they get a misdemeanor or greater offense they should be sent back to their country of origin. Capital crimes should result in death penalty. We need to keep them out of our prisons.
Both good ideas except I don't think someone should be kicked out for a misdemeanor if they're doing an otherwise good job of contributing to society/supporting their family/staying out of trouble.
 
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Say that again for the people sitting in the back who didn't hear it.

How much do soldiers get paid anyways?
The full chart is a pdf which can be seen here:
http://www.dfas.mil/dam/jcr:b6ef41d4-f071-45f9-b863-70b202be05a6/2015MilitaryPayChart_2.pdf

Pay varies by rank and time in service among many other things. The base pay for an E-2 (second lowest rank but one commonly attained via recruitment contract or within a couple of months of finishing boot camp) with less than 1 year in service is $1734 per month or just shy of $21,000 per year. This may not seem like much especially given the number of hours some military jobs demand but keep in mind that single military members at that rank live in barracks and have a grand total of $0 in rent and utility bills.

Basic Allowance for Housing varies by duty station (since rent varies wildly across the country). The BAH table in the pdf is a standardized one for reservists on temporary active duty (less than 30 days) or for members transferring stations. Getting married makes you automatically eligible for BAH since barracks are for single members only and good luck getting on base housing. Hell, getting married opens up so much extra cash that many people get married strictly for it. The artist behind Terminal Lance explains it very well:

Why do Marines do this? A number of reasons really–for starters, a bigger paycheck. Yes, in the military you quite literally get paid to be married. Well, it of course isn’t defined as such, but that is the inevitable result of receiving BAH (Base Allowance for Housing). Married Marines automatically get BAH, which can be quite a large sum depending on where you’re stationed. Where I was stationed–beautiful Kaneohe Bay, HI–the BAH rate for an E-3 (Lance Corporal) is currently $2,016 per month–mind you, this is in addition to the regular paycheck he’s already receiving.

While this system works great the way it was intended, for people that genuinely love eachother and are married because of such feelings, it also tends to work great for those that just want some extra cash. Contract marriages usually work by agreeing to split the BAH with someone, still netting you an extra $1,008 a month in Hawaii and the added benefit of living off base. Granted, $2,016 in Hawaii isn’t going to get you much luxury, but anything beats the bricks, right?

Additionally, being deployed in a combat zone makes your pay tax free (or it did when I was deployed, I assume it still does) AND you get an extra amount for being overseas AND you get an extra amount based on where you're sent.
 
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Commie, you know that Democrats are just as bad at nation building and war mongering as Republicans are. Obama is the textbook example get he gets pass because he supports gay marriage and abortion. I just laugh at people that say "they're doing nothing wrong" in reference to illegal immigration. It's trespassing and against the law. Living in a country that sucks doesn't give you a free pass to enter America illegally. I love how people say "you're racist if you oppose illegal immigration". It's not racist to oppose trespassing.
 
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Y'know, given that you're a former Target employee, I'm honestly surprised that you're this ignorant on the issues of minimum wage. People say "Get a real job". Okay. Where? Where are all these "real jobs" that people say that you should get? How am I or anyone else supposed to get one of these "real jobs" when the cost of living is so damn high in comparison to the money that we make that all the money goes directly to living, instead of college which would help us get a "real job"? How can I get a "real job" when a good chunk of jobs require a bachelor's degree, minimum?

And what of the people who live in cities, like New York, Washington D.C., or Los Angeles, or any of the suburbs near those cities? What of those people who have to work at Target or McDonalds, along with a second or even third? What of these people, who have to work numerous jobs just to make ends meet?

Is it so bad for these people to ask for a living wage, given that the current federally mandated minimum wage is so low in comparison to inflation?

On another note, I mean no disrespect to soldiers when I say this. I realize that the wars you fight in are the directives of those above you. But I didn't ask for the soldiers to fight in the war. I didn't ask them to put their lives on the line. I can't stand it when people try to guilt me or others by saying things like "THEY PUT THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE FIGHTING FOR YOUR FREEDOM."

Where is this great threat to our freedom? Is it ISIS, the terrorist group that we accidentally formed because we dicked around in the Middle East far longer than we should have? Is it the victims of occupation of the Middle East by American forces, rightfully pissed because our dragnet for any sort of terrorist has led to the murder of countless people, children included? If one is to argue that there is a threat to our freedom in the Middle East, I would argue that that threat is probably something we caused.



Say that again for the people sitting in the back who didn't hear it.

How much do soldiers get paid anyways?
I'm not ignorant about minimum wage - the people who are ignorant are the ones who continue working at these jobs hoping that uncle sam will nearly double the minimum wage so they can make a living without having to go out and find a real job / go to college. I realized that if I want to make a decent living that I need to get the heck out of Target and get a real job.

If you want to live off Target, at least be a Team Lead or above.


https://www.navycs.com/charts/2015-military-pay-chart.html

I was an E-3 when I was in which is about $11.39/hr, but that is before deductions. Yes there are some benefits, but there's no reason that a burger flipper at McDonalds should be taking more home than a soldier.

Also soldiers pay Federal income tax like everyone else -- unless you're in a combat zone, then I believe it is waived.

ISIS has kidnapped and murdered Americans abroad, so I would say they are an issue - albeit maybe not a domestic security issue -- yet. Don't be that guy who downplays what the Military does for us - it's not very patriotic.
 
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If you want to live off Target, at least be a Team Lead or above.
Team lead pay is shit too unless you're single with no kids.

I was an E-3 when I was in which is about $11.39/hr, but that is before deductions. Yes there are some benefits, but there's no reason that a burger flipper at McDonalds should be taking more home than a soldier.
They wouldn't be. Not having to pay for rent/utilities makes a huge difference between the salary of military personnel and that of a regular civilian employee. Military personnel that do pay rent take home a much larger amount via BAH that in some cases, more than doubles their pay.

Don't downplay the benefits either. I don't know of any civilian employer that will straight up pay 3 years of tuition + books + BAH pay equivalent of an E-5 after completing 36 months of employment.
 

oath2order

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I'm not ignorant about minimum wage - the people who are ignorant are the ones who continue working at these jobs hoping that uncle sam will nearly double the minimum wage so they can make a living without having to go out and find a real job / go to college. I realized that if I want to make a decent living that I need to get the heck out of Target and get a real job.

If you want to live off Target, at least be a Team Lead or above.


https://www.navycs.com/charts/2015-military-pay-chart.html

I was an E-3 when I was in which is about $11.39/hr, but that is before deductions. Yes there are some benefits, but there's no reason that a burger flipper at McDonalds should be taking more home than a soldier.

Also soldiers pay Federal income tax like everyone else -- unless you're in a combat zone, then I believe it is waived.

ISIS has kidnapped and murdered Americans abroad, so I would say they are an issue - albeit maybe not a domestic security issue -- yet. Don't be that guy who downplays what the Military does for us - it's not very patriotic.
You said "I realized that if I want to make a decent living that I need to get the heck out of Target and get a real job." and you completely ignored everything I said about "real jobs" being difficult to find, needing a college education, and the fact that it's harder and harder to get a college education due to cost of living.

Yes there are some benefits, but there's no reason that a burger flipper at McDonalds should be taking more home than a soldier.
You would think that the benefits of health care, and free college tuition would be enough so soldiers don't have to worry about money until they leave and "get a real job" but I guess they have to make more money too. On top of free college tuition. Yeah. Okay.

ISIS has kidnapped and murdered Americans abroad, so I would say they are an issue - albeit maybe not a domestic security issue -- yet. Don't be that guy who downplays what the Military does for us - it's not very patriotic.
I don't care if it's not patriotic. There's no real threat to our freedoms from terrorists here in America, just a bunch of problems we have created in the Middle East.
 

Flabbergasted

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I love how people complain they can't make a livable wage working a TM position at Target (which a high school kid could do), or flipping burgers at McDonalds. Yet our troops who put their lives on the line for this country get paid crap and no one bats an eye.. Lol.

If people want to get paid a living wage, they need to get a real job.
God damn, this line of thinking is so tired. Fact is, most minimum wage workers right now aren't high school kids. Increasingly, they are adults with families to feed. What exactly is a "real job" anyway? Is that one where you sit at your cubicle 50 hours a week at your big important office job?

Republicans always miss that these fake jobs retail and fast food workers have help make multi-millionaire/billionaire executives as wealthy as they are. Do you really think the average CEO is so much more important and hard-working than the guy flipping burgers for a living that he deserves to make over 300x more than him?
 
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Democrats are wealthy too. John Kerry's old lady is worth billions. Both are equally bad but Democrats get a pass because they're trendy and get a pass since they support gay marriage and abortion.
 
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You said "I realized that if I want to make a decent living that I need to get the heck out of Target and get a real job." and you completely ignored everything I said about "real jobs" being difficult to find, needing a college education, and the fact that it's harder and harder to get a college education due to cost of living.



You would think that the benefits of health care, and free college tuition would be enough so soldiers don't have to worry about money until they leave and "get a real job" but I guess they have to make more money too. On top of free college tuition. Yeah. Okay.



I don't care if it's not patriotic. There's no real threat to our freedoms from terrorists here in America, just a bunch of problems we have created in the Middle East.
There is always a threat... We were minding our business in 2001 (more or less) and they flew 2 planes into the World Trade Center.

If we let terrorists run rampant, they can plan another 9/11. The fact that we are bombing the living piss out of them right now means they're busy making sure they don't get blown up instead of planning attacks on US Soil.


Also - real jobs aren't that hard to find. I found my job/interviewed/got hired, in a week. I make over $40,000 a year (in Minnesota- which is a decent amount). You just have to be worthwhile to society and not some unreliable moron.
 
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It's true and you know it. Republicans and Democrats are both corrupt whores. I just wish there was a law that would force them to disclose what kinds of stocks they have. We know what they're profiting from while in office. In my opinion they shouldn't be allowed to have stocks while serving because then they would be forced to actually work.
 

oath2order

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If we let terrorists run rampant, they can plan another 9/11. The fact that we are bombing the living piss out of them right now means they're busy making sure they don't get blown up instead of planning attacks on US Soil.
It's this same continuous bombing that has killed innocents, along with making enemies and creating ISIS. Congratulations! We stopped the terrorists from running rampant and now we have another group! YAY!!!!!
 
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There is always a threat... We were minding our business in 2001 (more or less) and they flew 2 planes into the World Trade Center.

If we let terrorists run rampant, they can plan another 9/11. The fact that we are bombing the living piss out of them right now means they're busy making sure they don't get blown up instead of planning attacks on US Soil.


Also - real jobs aren't that hard to find. I found my job/interviewed/got hired, in a week. I make over $40,000 a year (in Minnesota- which is a decent amount). You just have to be worthwhile to society and not some unreliable moron.
I guarantee I'm not a moron. I'm also worthwhile to society. Don't think that you're safe. All it takes is a couple of medical issues and your life can change.
 

luna831

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Their is a difference between a minimum wage job like fast food and career and trade like a ceo job. That is why education is the answer.
 
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