What are your thoughts on this people led movement?

#1
I am surprised that there arent any topics on the occupy wall street protests, so I guess Ill start one. Me myself, I am hugely for it, for many reasons. I usually try to keep my political opinions to myself (I am a moderate republican) but I think this movement transcends politics. Its a symbol of our democracy, a fundamental right to question our government and their action when they prove to be self serving. A lot of people argue that there is no cohesive message. I disagree. I think it points to America being a free nation, of equal opportunity, yet, that inst how things run. Money runs politics, and therefore, the rich run the country. I whole heartily believe in capitalism, but that isnt what we have, we have something entirely different. Free market would have dictated that failed banks would go out of business, but they didn't. Now middle America is going out of business, but no one is doing anything. Wages are stagnant, yet the cost of living is escalating. Milk is 3.50 a gallon. gas goes up. But I still dont make more. But they want us to spend more money, how funny, yet they dont pay enough to even cover rent. I heard the argument against these protests, but they just dont make sense to me.

1. These people are looking for a handout- Um, No, I think they are looking for accountability and oversight. Banks that ruined us should not get to act as if its business as usual. I dont think its fair that CEO's dont get paid per performance, like we do. I am not against them getting paid big bonuses, but I am against them getting paid bonuses when they run their companies into the ground, slash pay significantly, and in some cases lay people off, all while posting record profits.

2. People arent trying hard enough to get Jobs, or arent taking jobs that are there- Clearly these people haven't been in the job hunt for a while because everyone I have ever talked to has probably lost count on how many applications they have sent out. I can conservatively say that I have passed the 500 mark, and I know this because I save every one for reference. And these are college educated people, competing for entry level, minimum wage job. I have applied at Mcdonalds, Taco bell, I even applied to clean bathrooms. Nothing. and of course I am college educated, graduated with honors from a top 20 nationally ranked university.

3. People arent educated enough/ need advanced education- This argument is stupid, seeing as the market is flooded with college graduates that cant find work in their field, or any other related field. People already have incurred enough debt without adding more on with a guarantee of a stable work market.

4. People who have a job should just be grateful- You know what, I am grateful to be underemployed, at least its something right? But this argument makes it sound like I should just shut up and take it. Take the constant verbal abuse (this is a daily occurrence at my store) the low pay, the hierarchical and systematic repression of advancement. All that runs rampant when you know your workforce doesn't have the option to go elsewhere. And Yes I know that target was never set up to be a living wage, I know that. I just think its kind of hypocritical that we do so much for our community and so little for our team members. How is it fair that you have stellar team members who give there all and get a pittance of 20 cent raise. But our CEO get 23 million plus stock options. And the board easily makes 300,000 each. Not enough to go around? We are the engine that makes it all work, but the appreciation is little.

I am sorry if this was inappropriate for this forum, mod feel free to take it down. I am just fed up with life, I played by the rules, and I get treat like less than. I am not better than anyone. And neither are they.
 
#2
MY opinion is, I enjoy getting arrested.

They and you have the right to think or say anything you want.

They also have the right to "peaceably assemble."

They DO NOT have the right to camp out on public property, obstruct traffic, block entrances to buildings and interfere with other peoples livelihoods.
 

redeye58

Hasta Ba Rista, Baby!
#3
I love how the GOP characterizes the movement as an unruly mob but praised the Tea Party movement as instrumental in "taking back America". Sure, the TP hasn't camped out on public proptery but they've disrupted plenty of town hall meetings when elected reps (mostly Deomcrats) were attempting to meet with their constituents. My rep was shouted down during such a meeting when he was attempting to answer questions about the new health care laws. Seems the TP didn't want others to hear the facts. They also made sure to notify the local media that they intended to disrupt the town hall.
Tea Partiers are hypocrites when their lofty goals interfere with their own perks (like the freshman legislator who was asked if he planned to lobby Washington to cut congressional benefits; his response: "Certainly not! I've EARNED those!").
The occupy movement does need to define its purpose but, when it does, it could be as much a backlash as the Tea Party.
 

buliSBI

Former Team Member
#6
IMO these are going to be the opposite of Tea Partiers. Maybe become the new generation of radical hippies. They want reform for the low income/middle class/jobless people. They want kickbacks stopped for corporations. And they will do anything.

And it may become like Vancouver after losing the Stanley Cup or whenever a World Summit is the town. RIOT!!
 

commiecorvus

Former Signing Ninja
Staff member
Moderator
#8
O.T. - pzychopopgroove -- didn't know there was anyone here who was into old school punk. I'm a big fan, used to sport a mohawk and that was back in the 80's.


I might be giving myself away but I've been marching on my days off for the past couple of weeks (except for Yom Kipper).
I guess for anybody who been on the board for a while that's not much of a surprise.

Here is the declaration of the Occupation,

https://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/10/02-1

Nobodies livelihoods are being interrupted, both the committees (and the NYPD) are making sure of that.
People are being arrested for trumped up charges. Marching without a permit? Good reason to wrap people in netting.
I wasn't there when they maced the young woman but I've talked to people who were and the cops set that up from the start.
Net them like animals and blinded them with chemicals for no reason.
The bridge was another situation where the cops pushed people out onto the street then started arresting them for blocking traffic.
Why would they do things like this to peaceful demonstrators?

In Wisconsin the police marched with the teachers and firefighters because they knew they would be the next group targeted in the war on the middle class.
In NYC the cops have been bought by JP Morgan.
On the night before the protest started the JP Morgan Chase gave the biggest donation ever, 4.6 million dollars, to the New York City Police Foundation.
http://www.disinfo.com/2011/10/jp-morgan-chase-donates-4-6-million-to-nypd-on-eve-of-protests/
Pretty much explains why they are willing to club us on command.
 

commiecorvus

Former Signing Ninja
Staff member
Moderator
#12

commiecorvus

Former Signing Ninja
Staff member
Moderator
#13
Alan Grayson was on Real Time with Bill Mahr.
P.J. O'Rourk was making jokes about Occupy (I like PJ even if I don't agree with any of his politics) and Alan Grayson schooled him.

O’Rourke claimed that the Occupy Wall Street people flunked econ, and Grayson said, “No, listen Bill, I have no trouble understanding what they are talking about.”
O’Rourke asked Grayson, “You passed econ?”
Grayson answered, “I was an economist for more than three years, so I think so…Now let me tell you about what they’re talking about.
They’re complaining that Wall Street wrecked the economy three years ago and nobody’s held responsible for that.
Not a single person’s been indicted or convicted for destroying twenty percent of our national net worth accumulated over two centuries.
They’re upset about the fact that Wall Street has iron control over the economic policies of this country, and that one party is a wholly owned subsidiary of Wall Street, and the other party caters to them as well.”

O’Rourke joked that Occupy Wall Street has found their spokesman, then Grayson continued, “Listen, if I am spokesman for all the people who think that we should not have 24 million people in this country who can’t find a full time job, that we should not have 50 million people in this country who can’t see a doctor when they’re sick, that we shouldn’t have 47 million people in this country who need government help to feed themselves, and we shouldn’t have 15 million families who owe more on their mortgage than the value of their home, okay, I’ll be that spokesman.”
I've respected Grayson ever since he did his presentation on the Republican health plan.
'DON"T GET SICK!!!!"
"And if you do die quickly."
 
#15
They need to occupy some job vacancies. Get off the street and quit being bums.
Because evidently you have to be jobless to protest right? Wrong. Protests occurred outside of my office and I went out after work and joined in. I don't dislike people who are insanely wealthy... I don't even want that kind of money (think about what it takes to maintain that kind of fortune) I just want them to pay their "Fair share" ideally with a flat tax that is equal across all incomes above a set poverty line. (say 17%) But that's only a small reason that the people are out there.

The real reason is simple. The Fed is a private bank. The fed prints money and loans it to the government with interest. The government collects taxes to pay for all its programs and pay the fed/debt. It's always spending more than its making so it constantly has to print/borrow. The American people can't even control their own spending habits but they have to throw more cash at the governments debt as well, and a portion of the wealthiest in the world are/were directly responsible for creating this flawed system. Why? Greed. We let them do it so we have a responsibility to stop them. Personally I want to see a lot more action than protesting.

This country is in for a hell of a ride.
 
#16
To add, I've noticed republicans in general are really cracking down. They are saying some really outlandish ************. I read a post from one saying that a protester that supposedly fell to their death deserved to die and it was gods doing for going against capitalism. There have been calls to end the protest and arrest everyone involved. Basically people calling for their rights to be stripped. These people (far right republicans/ bible fanatics) have no concept of what this country was founded on, and if their behavior becomes common enough it'll lead to war.

"Why don't the bums go get a job"
"Look at the idiots chanting"
"They are filthy vagrants"
"They shouldn't be allowed to protest"
"I work all day for my ************ty pay while they protest the top 1% having 99% of the wealth, they should get a job"

The comments go on and on. I don't support many of the ideas I've read that occupiers are advocating, but I support the idea of a "peoples revolution" and an end to wage slavery. Still think you are free? Look at the reality of where things are made, what it really costs to have that ipod/ipad, new pc, tv, the food you eat, your new car. Look what it has cost you. Incomes are dropping fast, unemployment is going up, and we are in our 2nd recession. The American dream was just that. A dream. Time to wake the ************ up. It's up to us the citizens of the USA to return our republic (we are a republic NOT a democracy, look up the difference) to the form of capitalism it was built on. The form that works.

Small government. Help those that need to be helped through charity with government pitching in for the most desperate. Isolationist foreign policy. End the Fed. Pay off our debts and return to surplus. Hold China accountable for cheating on a global scale and undervaluing their currency by instituting tariffs and trade bans until they sort it out. Tax fairly through flat tax or consumption tax and eliminate tax system bureaucracy. Manufacturing belongs here because we are supposed to be the best in the world by having the best education, best discipline and the strongest will to achieve our goals.
 
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