What are your thoughts on this people led movement?

Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
32
#1
I am surprised that there arent any topics on the occupy wall street protests, so I guess Ill start one. Me myself, I am hugely for it, for many reasons. I usually try to keep my political opinions to myself (I am a moderate republican) but I think this movement transcends politics. Its a symbol of our democracy, a fundamental right to question our government and their action when they prove to be self serving. A lot of people argue that there is no cohesive message. I disagree. I think it points to America being a free nation, of equal opportunity, yet, that inst how things run. Money runs politics, and therefore, the rich run the country. I whole heartily believe in capitalism, but that isnt what we have, we have something entirely different. Free market would have dictated that failed banks would go out of business, but they didn't. Now middle America is going out of business, but no one is doing anything. Wages are stagnant, yet the cost of living is escalating. Milk is 3.50 a gallon. gas goes up. But I still dont make more. But they want us to spend more money, how funny, yet they dont pay enough to even cover rent. I heard the argument against these protests, but they just dont make sense to me.

1. These people are looking for a handout- Um, No, I think they are looking for accountability and oversight. Banks that ruined us should not get to act as if its business as usual. I dont think its fair that CEO's dont get paid per performance, like we do. I am not against them getting paid big bonuses, but I am against them getting paid bonuses when they run their companies into the ground, slash pay significantly, and in some cases lay people off, all while posting record profits.

2. People arent trying hard enough to get Jobs, or arent taking jobs that are there- Clearly these people haven't been in the job hunt for a while because everyone I have ever talked to has probably lost count on how many applications they have sent out. I can conservatively say that I have passed the 500 mark, and I know this because I save every one for reference. And these are college educated people, competing for entry level, minimum wage job. I have applied at Mcdonalds, Taco bell, I even applied to clean bathrooms. Nothing. and of course I am college educated, graduated with honors from a top 20 nationally ranked university.

3. People arent educated enough/ need advanced education- This argument is stupid, seeing as the market is flooded with college graduates that cant find work in their field, or any other related field. People already have incurred enough debt without adding more on with a guarantee of a stable work market.

4. People who have a job should just be grateful- You know what, I am grateful to be underemployed, at least its something right? But this argument makes it sound like I should just shut up and take it. Take the constant verbal abuse (this is a daily occurrence at my store) the low pay, the hierarchical and systematic repression of advancement. All that runs rampant when you know your workforce doesn't have the option to go elsewhere. And Yes I know that target was never set up to be a living wage, I know that. I just think its kind of hypocritical that we do so much for our community and so little for our team members. How is it fair that you have stellar team members who give there all and get a pittance of 20 cent raise. But our CEO get 23 million plus stock options. And the board easily makes 300,000 each. Not enough to go around? We are the engine that makes it all work, but the appreciation is little.

I am sorry if this was inappropriate for this forum, mod feel free to take it down. I am just fed up with life, I played by the rules, and I get treat like less than. I am not better than anyone. And neither are they.
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
151
#2
MY opinion is, I enjoy getting arrested.

They and you have the right to think or say anything you want.

They also have the right to "peaceably assemble."

They DO NOT have the right to camp out on public property, obstruct traffic, block entrances to buildings and interfere with other peoples livelihoods.
 

redeye58

Hasta Ba Rista, Baby!
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
18,099
#3
I love how the GOP characterizes the movement as an unruly mob but praised the Tea Party movement as instrumental in "taking back America". Sure, the TP hasn't camped out on public proptery but they've disrupted plenty of town hall meetings when elected reps (mostly Deomcrats) were attempting to meet with their constituents. My rep was shouted down during such a meeting when he was attempting to answer questions about the new health care laws. Seems the TP didn't want others to hear the facts. They also made sure to notify the local media that they intended to disrupt the town hall.
Tea Partiers are hypocrites when their lofty goals interfere with their own perks (like the freshman legislator who was asked if he planned to lobby Washington to cut congressional benefits; his response: "Certainly not! I've EARNED those!").
The occupy movement does need to define its purpose but, when it does, it could be as much a backlash as the Tea Party.
 

buliSBI

Former Team Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
3,060
#6
IMO these are going to be the opposite of Tea Partiers. Maybe become the new generation of radical hippies. They want reform for the low income/middle class/jobless people. They want kickbacks stopped for corporations. And they will do anything.

And it may become like Vancouver after losing the Stanley Cup or whenever a World Summit is the town. RIOT!!
 

commiecorvus

Former Signing Ninja
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
15,954
#8
O.T. - pzychopopgroove -- didn't know there was anyone here who was into old school punk. I'm a big fan, used to sport a mohawk and that was back in the 80's.


I might be giving myself away but I've been marching on my days off for the past couple of weeks (except for Yom Kipper).
I guess for anybody who been on the board for a while that's not much of a surprise.

Here is the declaration of the Occupation,

https://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/10/02-1

Nobodies livelihoods are being interrupted, both the committees (and the NYPD) are making sure of that.
People are being arrested for trumped up charges. Marching without a permit? Good reason to wrap people in netting.
I wasn't there when they maced the young woman but I've talked to people who were and the cops set that up from the start.
Net them like animals and blinded them with chemicals for no reason.
The bridge was another situation where the cops pushed people out onto the street then started arresting them for blocking traffic.
Why would they do things like this to peaceful demonstrators?

In Wisconsin the police marched with the teachers and firefighters because they knew they would be the next group targeted in the war on the middle class.
In NYC the cops have been bought by JP Morgan.
On the night before the protest started the JP Morgan Chase gave the biggest donation ever, 4.6 million dollars, to the New York City Police Foundation.
http://www.disinfo.com/2011/10/jp-morgan-chase-donates-4-6-million-to-nypd-on-eve-of-protests/
Pretty much explains why they are willing to club us on command.
 

commiecorvus

Former Signing Ninja
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
15,954
#12

commiecorvus

Former Signing Ninja
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
15,954
#13
Alan Grayson was on Real Time with Bill Mahr.
P.J. O'Rourk was making jokes about Occupy (I like PJ even if I don't agree with any of his politics) and Alan Grayson schooled him.

O’Rourke claimed that the Occupy Wall Street people flunked econ, and Grayson said, “No, listen Bill, I have no trouble understanding what they are talking about.”
O’Rourke asked Grayson, “You passed econ?”
Grayson answered, “I was an economist for more than three years, so I think so…Now let me tell you about what they’re talking about.
They’re complaining that Wall Street wrecked the economy three years ago and nobody’s held responsible for that.
Not a single person’s been indicted or convicted for destroying twenty percent of our national net worth accumulated over two centuries.
They’re upset about the fact that Wall Street has iron control over the economic policies of this country, and that one party is a wholly owned subsidiary of Wall Street, and the other party caters to them as well.”

O’Rourke joked that Occupy Wall Street has found their spokesman, then Grayson continued, “Listen, if I am spokesman for all the people who think that we should not have 24 million people in this country who can’t find a full time job, that we should not have 50 million people in this country who can’t see a doctor when they’re sick, that we shouldn’t have 47 million people in this country who need government help to feed themselves, and we shouldn’t have 15 million families who owe more on their mortgage than the value of their home, okay, I’ll be that spokesman.”
I've respected Grayson ever since he did his presentation on the Republican health plan.
'DON"T GET SICK!!!!"
"And if you do die quickly."
 
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
128
#15
They need to occupy some job vacancies. Get off the street and quit being bums.
Because evidently you have to be jobless to protest right? Wrong. Protests occurred outside of my office and I went out after work and joined in. I don't dislike people who are insanely wealthy... I don't even want that kind of money (think about what it takes to maintain that kind of fortune) I just want them to pay their "Fair share" ideally with a flat tax that is equal across all incomes above a set poverty line. (say 17%) But that's only a small reason that the people are out there.

The real reason is simple. The Fed is a private bank. The fed prints money and loans it to the government with interest. The government collects taxes to pay for all its programs and pay the fed/debt. It's always spending more than its making so it constantly has to print/borrow. The American people can't even control their own spending habits but they have to throw more cash at the governments debt as well, and a portion of the wealthiest in the world are/were directly responsible for creating this flawed system. Why? Greed. We let them do it so we have a responsibility to stop them. Personally I want to see a lot more action than protesting.

This country is in for a hell of a ride.
 
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
128
#16
To add, I've noticed republicans in general are really cracking down. They are saying some really outlandish ************. I read a post from one saying that a protester that supposedly fell to their death deserved to die and it was gods doing for going against capitalism. There have been calls to end the protest and arrest everyone involved. Basically people calling for their rights to be stripped. These people (far right republicans/ bible fanatics) have no concept of what this country was founded on, and if their behavior becomes common enough it'll lead to war.

"Why don't the bums go get a job"
"Look at the idiots chanting"
"They are filthy vagrants"
"They shouldn't be allowed to protest"
"I work all day for my ************ty pay while they protest the top 1% having 99% of the wealth, they should get a job"

The comments go on and on. I don't support many of the ideas I've read that occupiers are advocating, but I support the idea of a "peoples revolution" and an end to wage slavery. Still think you are free? Look at the reality of where things are made, what it really costs to have that ipod/ipad, new pc, tv, the food you eat, your new car. Look what it has cost you. Incomes are dropping fast, unemployment is going up, and we are in our 2nd recession. The American dream was just that. A dream. Time to wake the ************ up. It's up to us the citizens of the USA to return our republic (we are a republic NOT a democracy, look up the difference) to the form of capitalism it was built on. The form that works.

Small government. Help those that need to be helped through charity with government pitching in for the most desperate. Isolationist foreign policy. End the Fed. Pay off our debts and return to surplus. Hold China accountable for cheating on a global scale and undervaluing their currency by instituting tariffs and trade bans until they sort it out. Tax fairly through flat tax or consumption tax and eliminate tax system bureaucracy. Manufacturing belongs here because we are supposed to be the best in the world by having the best education, best discipline and the strongest will to achieve our goals.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
151
#21
To be blunt, I think these people are a bunch of blithering idiots and that's not coming from some rich guy.

It's coming from a guy who doesn't even have a job.

This is nothing more than the same old class warfare rhetoric the whacko left has been tying to sell for decades.

They are the "99%?"

Give me a bleeping break.

They are more like the 9 %, if that.
 
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
128
#22
To be blunt, I think these people are a bunch of blithering idiots and that's not coming from some rich guy.

It's coming from a guy who doesn't even have a job.

This is nothing more than the same old class warfare rhetoric the whacko left has been tying to sell for decades.

They are the "99%?"

Give me a bleeping break.

They are more like the 9 %, if that.
You just don't get it do you. You turn this into some political party BS, the same old ************ that the more intelligent among us have been trying to escape from for years. I will spell it out so that it's simple.

The occupy movement stands for the following:

- The top 1% has the vast majority of wealth in this country
- With wealth comes power. Their vote matters more. They can buy their way and get what they want.
- Our politicians and businessmen are corrupt
- The 1% got us into a significant portion of the mess we are in right now (but we let them. Occupy is taking responsibility for making change)
- We are the 99%. We aren't rich. We want a fair society in which hard work pays off for all, not for the few. Where everyone is paid fairly.

Each protestor has their own ideas about how to make change. You will find socialists, communists, libertarians, even republicans at the protests if you look hard enough. If you have been watching media broadcasts and that's how you base your opinion.... STOP. Watching TV for news is the reason many Americans are idiots on the issues.

With all of that being said, I personally feel the protests won't really do anything other than raise awareness. Most Americans these days are complacent. As long as they have food, basic living needs, and a small amount of personal freedom, they will deal with any ************ you feed them. That's why the top 1% walks all over everyone else. The 99% as a whole is weak minded, weak willed, and lacks the power to enact change in a meaningful way.

The current situation reminds me of pre-revolutionary America, only now the kings are international bankers, and they own EVERYTHING. Who will be the founding fathers of our day? Do we even have anyone with the backbone to fill such a role? I honestly don't think so. With our current financial situation and the way the world is beginning to trend away from globalism back to isolationism and nationalism, we are in for a tough ride.
 

redeye58

Hasta Ba Rista, Baby!
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
18,099
#23
Many of these folks have attempted to play by the very rules that the power brokers always espouse. They finished school & went on to college, earned a degree to become productive members of society. Now we've got engineers who can't get a job because corporations convinced congress to increase the number of H1B visas & brought in foreign workers. Teachers can't find jobs because they're being laid off due to budget cuts (thanks, Gov Walker & Gov Perry). Crop workers are paid so poorly that Georgia couldn't even fill the gap with recently parolled felons who were desperate for work (turns out they weren't THAT desperate) & crops are rotting in the fields.
Meanwhile, corp America wants us to loosen the regs even more saying "Trust us & we'll create jobs". Every time we've loosened the reins, more jobs go overseas & the wealthy hoard their assets even more. Fine. If they're not investing in an American workforce, it's time to tax them to the teeth for it & close every loophole, tax-shelter, tax-dodge...you name it. I guarantee that, if they want to pass it onto consumers, the consumers will vote with their feet & do business with those who pass the least cost onto them. True capitalism.
 

commiecorvus

Former Signing Ninja
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
15,954
#24
I have been middle class all my life, worked hard, played by the rules and watched things get progressively worse and worse.

The things my grandfather fought for as a Wobblie are slowly being stripped away, the things my mother marched for in the aniti-war movement have been ground to dust and it's time to hit the streets again.

Sure that makes me one of the Lefties you don't like but I've never wanted class warfare.

I've never had a problem with anybody who worked for their money, who got rich by inventing things, by building this country up, by making life better.

I wanted them to pay their fair share and by in large most of them didn't seem to mind doing that.

The people I have problems with are the ones who make million by doing nothing but shift money around, who have run company's into the ground and got bonus' for doing it and when they are asked to pay taxes on that buy the Supreme Court so they can make the election system their own.

One of the best cases for what I've seen so far was actually made in the Business Insider magazine.
It makes a very clear case through charts and graphs for why all of us should be very pissed off at the handfull of people who flushed this country down the toilet.

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-street-protesters-are-so-angry-about-2011-10?op=1
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
151
#25
To all of the above posts since my last post, utter, total BS.

I could say more, but it's simply not worth wasting my time.

Edit:

Keep telling yourselves you're the "99%" and I'll keeping laughing my ass off at you.

Yeah, I know, I watch too much news.

I've been brainwashed by the "corporate media."

Yep. I sure have.

The last time I watched a news broadcast was the night they killed Bin Laden.

But then, I'm sure that was just another part of the conspiracy by the "1%" to screw over the the "99%"

And of course the fact that your life hasn't turned out the way you would have liked is also the fault of the "1%"

Be glad I'm not say the mayor of New York City.

Bloomberg has been Gandhi in comparison to what my response to this nonsense would have been.

I honestly thought I'd found a forum frequented by people with a bit of sense.

Obviously I was wrong.

Bye.
 
Last edited:
Top