Archived Why do ETLs need to have a degree?

[Flabbergasted]

I cannot for the life of me understand why Spot refuses to hire ETLs unless they have a degree. It's literally just a glorified assistant manager position. The degrees they have aren't even relevant to their position within the store.

Example of why this requirement is so crappy: One of our GSTLs has been with the store for over a decade, and a TL for five years. She has long desired to move up within the store, but knows she can't because she lacks a degree. Our STL even said that if she had a degree, he'd have hired her for ETL-GE. Instead, they went with some fresh out of college bimbo with little retail experience and 0 experience with Target. Totally infuriates me as the girl has NO idea what she's doing and frequently has to ask the GSTL for help.

Meanwhile, you can be a store manager at pretty much any other company (including Wally World, I believe) without a degree in anything. So, what knucklehead came up with this idiotic rule?

 

[commiecorvus]

It's all about Spot's little club, the type of look they want for the store.
So keeping in mind that competence and skill can be hired anywhere Spot decided they wanted young, pretty people who were willing to work themselves and the people under them into the ground and not question any of the actual issues that might come up.
To do that made a college degree the first requirement and then started hiring right out of school.
That way they got managers with little practical work experience who were will to put in the grueling hours.

 

[tgtguy]

They don't need to have a degree...to do the work of an etl. However, Spot requires they have a degree....not sure as to why Spot think college degree always means they will be a great leader .

 

[sigma7]

Upward mobility maybe? Also, a degree requirement SHOULD be weeding out people with poor communication skills (written and oral) and people that lack critical thinking and analytical skills, but with the state of education in America...a lot of graduates never learned how to communicate effectively, think critically, or even learned how to learn.

 

[Mhugh220]

A degree requirement for external hires is a filter for applications so HR doesn't drown in resumes. But not all districts require a degree for internal hires. We've promoted numerous TLs to ETLs who don't have degrees. Just a longer waiting period (average 5+ years at Target)

 

[dabeastfromtheeast]

Part of my understanding about hiring greenhorns straight out of college is that they (usually) have little-to-no practical retail work experience, so they have no room to negotiate their salaries. I don't know 100% ETL base pay, but the rumor I've heard is that with the amount of hours you have to put in, if being an ETL was an hourly position, it would only pay about the same as a TL.

 

[Guest]

Street cred. Plain and simple.

 

[Mhugh220]

Part of my understanding about hiring greenhorns straight out of college is that they (usually) have little-to-no practical retail work experience, so they have no room to negotiate their salaries. I don't know 100% ETL base pay, but the rumor I've heard is that with the amount of hours you have to put in, if being an ETL was an hourly position, it would only pay about the same as a TL.

For lower pay grade ETLs, they get paid less than TL when broken down by hour. I always joked that Target would benefit from making TLs salaried. Get them for 50+ hours too. There's benefits to staying a Sr TL or TL.

 

[BobtheETL]

It's all about Spot's little club, the type of look they want for the store.
So keeping in mind that competence and skill can be hired anywhere Spot decided they wanted young, pretty people who were willing to work themselves and the people under them into the ground and not question any of the actual issues that might come up.
To do that made a college degree the first requirement and then started hiring right out of school.
That way they got managers with little practical work experience who were will to put in the grueling hours.

Yes, yes, yes.

 

[consume]

So they can quote and teach what they leaned in the system, to try and pour it into the minds of others.. Hard work means nothing.
Look at your etls. Sit on ass. Complain. Email. Eat together for 2 hours and say they're in a meeting if you try and call them.. Almost daily. Walk past their door and all you hear is bullshit and laughing. Never see a thing in their hand except a walkie.
Fun thing is to know your area, and question them on how wrong they are, then bring up best practice on a computer and shut them up./vent

 

[PinkZinnia]

Part of my understanding about hiring greenhorns straight out of college is that they (usually) have little-to-no practical retail work experience, so they have no room to negotiate their salaries. I don't know 100% ETL base pay, but the rumor I've heard is that with the amount of hours you have to put in, if being an ETL was an hourly position, it would only pay about the same as a TL.

Many salaried jobs are like that. When I managed a large firm and was paid a salary, my hours were sometimes 80 hrs a week. If I figured it out on an hourly basis, I made maybe as much as entry level mail room clerk.

For the etl position at target you have to laugh that it requires a college degree to put product on shelves and babysit a staff of mostly qualified people to do the same.
Imagine how many parents are saying - that's what I paid for? Or, my hard earned money pissed away for him/her to be a glorified clerk. Smh
Most similar positions will read a B.A. Or approx 5 years of equivalent work experience required. I wonder if someone would win a discriminatory case against them if it was brought to court?

 

[Noiinteam]

My store is the exception to the rule, apparently. I regularly see my ETL log working bulk, pulling pulls and setting end caps. Out STL works the line and the registers. ETL's take lunch in the break room. I appreciate a hard worker, whether they have a degree or not.

 

[consume]

My store is the exception to the rule, apparently. I regularly see my ETL log working bulk, pulling pulls and setting end caps. Out STL works the line and the registers. ETL's take lunch in the break room. I appreciate a hard worker, whether they have a degree or not.

That's only because their numbers aren't where they need to be

 

[Mhugh220]

My store is the exception to the rule, apparently. I regularly see my ETL log working bulk, pulling pulls and setting end caps. Out STL works the line and the registers. ETL's take lunch in the break room. I appreciate a hard worker, whether they have a degree or not.

That's how ETLs should be.

 

[Mhugh220]

Part of my understanding about hiring greenhorns straight out of college is that they (usually) have little-to-no practical retail work experience, so they have no room to negotiate their salaries. I don't know 100% ETL base pay, but the rumor I've heard is that with the amount of hours you have to put in, if being an ETL was an hourly position, it would only pay about the same as a TL.

Many salaried jobs are like that. When I managed a large firm and was paid a salary, my hours were sometimes 80 hrs a week. If I figured it out on an hourly basis, I made maybe as much as entry level mail room clerk.

For the etl position at target you have to laugh that it requires a college degree to put product on shelves and babysit a staff of mostly qualified people to do the same.
Imagine how many parents are saying - that's what I paid for? Or, my hard earned money pissed away for him/her to be a glorified clerk. Smh
Most similar positions will read a B.A. Or approx 5 years of equivalent work experience required. I wonder if someone would win a discriminatory case against them if it was brought to court?

A discriminatory case against setting experience, education, or skill qualifications? I don't think a case exists. Equal opportunities protect race, gender, religion, sometimes sexual orientation, age, etc. Do you think a company should have to review all 1000000000 resumes they'd get if they couldn't set those standards? A degree requirement is a filter, not necessarily a qualifying trait of a candidate. I wouldn't want my HR system overflowing with applications from school drop outs thinking they deserve to be managers.

I agree, ETL doesn't require a degree. Plenty of people could do a better job on experience alone.

 

[PinkZinnia]

That's not true about the million resumes. If so, they would get a million resumes/applications from people with degrees. State the qualifications and you shouldn't get many applications from unqualified people. Though there always are a few people who feel they are qualified to do any job at all.
I have never looked to see what etl qualifications are when their is a job opening. I would hope it would say more than college degree required.
I would think a filter would be something like this:


ESSENTIAL DUTIES & RESPONSIBILITIES
SALES
 Responsible for and expected to meet or exceed assigned sales plans and target metric objectives within assigned store.
 Maintain a commitment to the company’s sales processes, values and business code of ethics.
 Drives sales and ensures patterns of poor performance are addressed.
 Monitors employee/customer interactions and provides constructive feedback on ways employees can improve service and increase sales.
 Responsible for driving customer traffic by participating in approved local events and/or marketing opportunities.
PRODUCT
 Ensures consistent execution of company’s marketing and visual presentation.
 Proactively identifies various market opportunities and makes recommendations to store manager for localized product and visual and marketing strategies.
 Ensure store’s visual standards are met at all times
 Ability to create excitement and show passion for the product.
PEOPLE
 Demonstrates the ability to develop a culture of recognition, accountability, discipline and urgency.
 Train staff on how to drive sales to fullest potential through continued development on product knowledge, customer service standards and visual presentation.
 Partners with Human Resources to hire, develop and retain top talent, as well as, address employee relations issues.
 Ability to build and maintain an effective succession plan for store.
 Ensures adequate staffing at all times.
 Sets specific performance standards and ensures associates contribute to the company objectives.
 Mentors and develops key performers to be ready for career progression.
 Supervises employees by enforcing policies/procedures by documenting disciplinary actions, performance evaluations, and reporting incidents to Human Resources and Senior Management regarding any violations of company policies/procedures and preparing related documentation.
 Ability to complete new hire timely and accurately.

If a high school dropout is qualified to do the things mentioned above then yeah, they sure should be able apply . If target is using the degree as a blanket to supposedly keep out the riff-raff, then yes, it is discriminating against someone who is qualified.
Lets say you get 100 resumes from college graduates and not one of them have the qualifications listed above (saying those are the qualifications of the job) does that mean target picks from one of those inexperienced people - the one who does the best on the interviews? The one who passes the drug test. Then lets say the person who has most of those qualifications who is looking for employment can't even apply because they are lacking a degree. You don't see discrimination? I do.
Just because a case doesn't exist, doesn't mean there shouldn't be one.

 

[Mhugh220]

@PinkZinnia you can sue for anything. You can sue Target for making you work longer than 8 hours if you wanted to but that doesn't mean a lawyer will defend you or you have legal background to support your case. Your list of qualifications is excellent but they fail to ask "what proves you either have the experience or ability to accomplish these goals?". Experience speaks volumes. A degree says you went after a goal and completed it. A high school diploma says you did the bare minimum. High school drop out, which was a joke, says you did less than the minimum.

What's sad is that a BA is becoming the bare minimum and a MS is becoming the standand. It's not discrimination. That term is too heavy for it. It's limiting the possibility of having false positives. I can say and feel that I'm qualified to be a CEO but what experience or education do I have to back that up? Just feeling like I can doesn't justify my actual abilty. A combination of experience and education is needed.

You don't need a degree to be an ETL, but without one it will take several years to get there. Discrimination? No! Why? Because we all have equal opportunities to get in debt for education. Trust me, I came from a low income family. If I can get in debt, anyone can.

 

[PinkZinnia]

@PinkZinnia you can sue for anything. You can sue Target for making you work longer than 8 hours if you wanted to but that doesn't mean a lawyer will defend you or you have legal background to support your case. Your list of qualifications is excellent but they fail to ask "what proves you either have the experience or ability to accomplish these goals?". Experience speaks volumes. A degree says you went after a goal and completed it. A high school diploma says you did the bare minimum. High school drop out, which was a joke, says you did less than the minimum.

What's sad is that a BA is becoming the bare minimum and a MS is becoming the standand. It's not discrimination. That term is too heavy for it. It's limiting the possibility of having false positives. I can say and feel that I'm qualified to be a CEO but what experience or education do I have to back that up? Just feeling like I can doesn't justify my actual abilty. A combination of experience and education is needed.

You don't need a degree to be an ETL, but without one it will take several years to get there. Discrimination? No! Why? Because we all have equal opportunities to get in debt for education. Trust me, I came from a low income family. If I can get in debt, anyone can.

I'll ask my attorneys.. (Sadly I have two) if it would be a legit case.. There are attorneys who will take any cases at all.

I do not agree with you on why people only finish high school or why people have to drop out..but I do agree with you on ba or bs is the new min. to get ahead, but many fields don't require it to apply. It sort of makes me laugh that Target thinks so highly of themselves that an assistant manager position "requires" it.

 

[Barcode]

Wait why are we surprised a salaried manager position requires a degree? Upper ETL pay grades pay some serious dough.

I wouldn't want high school dropouts running my business either.

 

[Guest]

Getting in debt for a college education is the new norm. I got 40k in debt just to get a framed document that says I graduated from college and my life hasn't drastically improved. College is a scam. In America, most people make it big because they come from a rich family or have connections.

 

[signing genie]

Depends on what degree you go for tho and the jobs your applying for. For my degree its in very high demand where i live plus not many people specialize in it.

 

[Barcode]

Sure is a lot of degree bashing in here. One thing I notice is when someone can't have something or doesn't want to work for it, they make everyone else think it is not worth their while.

Anyone can get at least a 2yr degree too, with all the financial aid, student loans, and community college isn't super expensive. That framed degree is what tells an employer you actually have some sort of intellect and aren't stupid.

 

[signing genie]

Sure is a lot of degree bashing in here. One thing I notice is when someone can't have something or doesn't want to work for it, they make everyone else think it is not worth their while.

Anyone can get at least a 2yr degree too, with all the financial aid, student loans, and community college isn't super expensive. That framed degree is what tells an employer you actually have some sort of intellect and aren't stupid.

Exactly

 

[Nauzhror]

That framed degree is what tells an employer you actually have some sort of intellect and aren't stupid.

I would say most of my colleagues with degrees are stupid.

I admittedly made poor choices when younger (I graduated with a 2.2 GPA and failed many classes in high school due to not showing up half the time, being drunk when I did show up, and never doing homework), and then bombed my first semester of college due to skipping class to play online games I was addicted to at the time. For years I then blew my entire paycheck at the bar due to depression, but I scored 32 on the ACT, 1450 on the SAT (back when it was out of 1600, not 2400), and have a high enough IQ to join The Triple Nine Society (similar to Mensa, except Mensa requires a 130 IQ, Triple 9 requires 145+, such named because 99.9% wouldn't meet that requirement).

As you yourself said: "Anyone can get at least a 2yr degree"

If anyone can get a degree, then a degree is obviously not proof that someone isn't stupid.

A degree shows you are dedicated, and willing to work for something, it isn't by any means a proof of competence.

 

[Barcode]

Potential is meaningless if you don't apply it. AKA get a degree.

Some people are stupid. A degree shows TWO things:
1) You aren't stupid
2) You know how to apply yourself