Archived Got passed over for a promotion because...

[RS190]

First, let me give you some background. I'm a Sr. TPS in my store, have been for 2.5 years now. My store is the top performing store in the district for AP results. Speaking strictly from a statistical perspective, I'm one of if not the best TPS in the area. I'm a district trainer, and nearly every store in my district has an AP team member trained by me.

Second, I was signed off to be a Sr.TL level position in AP that doesn't exist anymore, so I began pursuing APTL positions. I had the backing of my ETL-AP, my district Investigator, and my APBP. I sat down and interviewed for a position in another store with the STL and my APBP. Afterwards my APBP informs my ETL-AP that I 'nailed it.' The STL then sends an email to my ETL and STL saying I'm an amazing Team Member, he knows that I would hit the ground running, be very successful in his store, and based on everything he's heard/seen about me and my interview there is absolutely no reason he wouldn't hire me.

....but

There is a regular backroom team member in his building, with zero AP experience, who has been signed off for a vague "Team Leader position." and he fears that "Giving the position to an external candidate might damage store morale." So what it seemingly came down to is even if I am the better candidate, the STL was afraid to hurt anybody's feelings. I don't want to talk down about the guy that got the job, but I can't think of much of any reason why he would be considered a better candidate than me, and I know how that sounds. More to the point, while I've heard that "everybody has to be interviewed regardless" the STL clearly went into my interview with that decision already made, and I just feel like my time was wasted if there was no possibility of me getting the position regardless of how well my interview went. I'm not discouraged, and I'm still pursuing the same position in other stores, this is just one of those experiences that left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[commiecorvus]

For all the talk of giving the job to the best candidate the fact is that political (and by that I mean the politics of dealing with a group of people not red state/blue state) often trump other decisions.
Did they make the best choice? Sure doesn't sound like it.
Did they make the necessary choice? Sounds like they think they did for the store.

I'd be pissed if I were you too.
What I hope is that you never wind up in the position they are.

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

I would stay away from that store. At least, you have the backing of district. You have some interview experience now.

 

[APredux]

I'm sorry that happened to you. If you really want to promote with Target, don't lose hope or show your frustrations outwardly by becoming more lax at work or letting your stats drop. Back during my first stint with Target when I was a Sr TPS (and younger and dumber), and didn't get a promotion I wanted, I let it negatively impact my work for nearly 6 months. Let's just say the promotional opportunities dried up real quick after that.

At my store, I've been getting prepped for ETL interviews, and working on my backfill. I'm developing one TM, but all leadership can talk about is another TM who is on the TL bench. He used to be a TL at his old store, and does a good job in the backroom. Because of that, they feel he could slide right into the APTL position when I leave. However I feel that he would make a terrible APTL, and I'd much rather see either someone with an AP background or someone who has shown a passion and an eye for AP (and is currently being developed by the AP in role!) take the job. Not just a generic "good TM" who happens to be sitting on the TL bench for the past two years.

 

[buliSBI]

I have been passed over several times as well and for silly reasons. Heck there was a 3 yr period at the end of my Target tenure where all TL/GSA positions were filled by handpicked TMs, or external hires or transfers. Only those TMs were interviewed for the positions. No internals were even considered.

 

[60SecondsRemaining]

That store made the right choice. As hard as it is for you to accept, what they did was manage team perception by making a hard decision. Was he the best choice? No, but the best choice isn't always the right choice.

Now, I'm not saying you haven't been screwed, because you have. Just not by that particular stl. They explained the decision and were transparent about it, so you can't really fault them.

 

[POGguy]

I would disagree. That may be true if it was a position other than AP but it wasn't. AP is a unique position and someone shouldn't just be plugged in because they were on the bench for a TL spot. I'm honestly surprised the APBP signed off on that.

I don't know either candidate to judge which is better, but it sounds like the person that was already signed off has been through non ap interviews for a general TL spot.

Anyways move on. I wouldn't wanna work for a STL like that.

 

[signingminion]

Give it a year. Maybe less. If he's as I'll stuff he'll choke and you can walk into it if you still want to.

Our store is the exact opposite. They would rather transfer in a team lead from our neighboring store we all hate than internal. Two etls, one srtl, and one tl later plus a handful of regular team members and now our store is starting to suck as a result.

 

[tgtguy]

Sometime( sometimes not all the time ) its not what you know its how much ass you kiss. Another way that Spot has changed over the years..

 

[Sickofspot]

Sometime( sometimes not all the time ) its not what you know its how much ass you kiss. Another way that Spot has changed over the years..

Exactly! @RS190 , Target is all about politics, now. Maybe, it is blessing in disguise. Who knows-maybe that other store sucks. I know it is hard, but try not to take it personal. It is the Target way. Sorry you are going through this.

 

[60SecondsRemaining]

I would disagree. That may be true if it was a position other than AP but it wasn't. AP is a unique position and someone shouldn't just be plugged in because they were on the bench for a TL spot. I'm honestly surprised the APBP signed off on that.

I don't know either candidate to judge which is better, but it sounds like the person that was already signed off has been through non ap interviews for a general TL spot.

Anyways move on. I wouldn't wanna work for a STL like that.

To the team members in the store, which position is irrelevant. There are more factors involved when choosing the best candidate for a position than just experience and skill set.

 

[WhyYouNoVibing]

First, let me give you some background. I'm a Sr. TPS in my store, have been for 2.5 years now. My store is the top performing store in the district for AP results. Speaking strictly from a statistical perspective, I'm one of if not the best TPS in the area. I'm a district trainer, and nearly every store in my district has an AP team member trained by me.

Second, I was signed off to be a Sr.TL level position in AP that doesn't exist anymore, so I began pursuing APTL positions. I had the backing of my ETL-AP, my district Investigator, and my APBP. I sat down and interviewed for a position in another store with the STL and my APBP. Afterwards my APBP informs my ETL-AP that I 'nailed it.' The STL then sends an email to my ETL and STL saying I'm an amazing Team Member, he knows that I would hit the ground running, be very successful in his store, and based on everything he's heard/seen about me and my interview there is absolutely no reason he wouldn't hire me.

....but

There is a regular backroom team member in his building, with zero AP experience, who has been signed off for a vague "Team Leader position." and he fears that "Giving the position to an external candidate might damage store morale." So what it seemingly came down to is even if I am the better candidate, the STL was afraid to hurt anybody's feelings. I don't want to talk down about the guy that got the job, but I can't think of much of any reason why he would be considered a better candidate than me, and I know how that sounds. More to the point, while I've heard that "everybody has to be interviewed regardless" the STL clearly went into my interview with that decision already made, and I just feel like my time was wasted if there was no possibility of me getting the position regardless of how well my interview went. I'm not discouraged, and I'm still pursuing the same position in other stores, this is just one of those experiences that left a bad taste in my mouth.

RS190:

Every store has an APS now. Why don't you apply for an APS position? I empathize with you because I was in the exact same position you're in. I wanted to go into an ETL position but there was none available in my store or in the vicinity of my area and I wasn't able to relocate. Yet, there was a Sr. TL position nearby my store. And I absolutely love being a Sr. TL. Do you want to stay in AP or eventually leave AP for a better position?

 

[RS190]

RS190:

Every store has an APS now. Why don't you apply for an APS position? I empathize with you because I was in the exact same position you're in. I wanted to go into an ETL position but there was none available in my store or in the vicinity of my area and I wasn't able to relocate. Yet, there was a Sr. TL position nearby my store. And I absolutely love being a Sr. TL. Do you want to stay in AP or eventually leave AP for a better position?

First: there is no position better than AP for me. I NEVER want a job where I legitimately have to care about things like redcards or zone quality. It's nothing I'd want. I don't want an APS position either, mostly because APS is below APTL, and I'd like to be in charge by myself.

To the team members in the store, which position is irrelevant. There are more factors involved when choosing the best candidate for a position than just experience and skill set.

To me, that just sounds wrong. Like it's been said, if this were just some other tl spot I'd understand, but AP is unique and shouldn't be given to someone with no experience in the area. They work separate from the rest of the store and their results are directly affected by the person in charge (in the case of an APTL store) as opposed to a team. Giving the job to someone based on the chance it'd hurt someone's feelings and hurt morale seems ridiculous to me, especially since the STL started it might affect morale, not definitely

I'm fine, I'm not in a "I'm so mad I'll quit Spot" state or anything. I'm put on the bench and was told by my APBP I'm to backfill for whichever of three stores opens up first. I was just annoyed the situation happened

 

[mrknownothing]

A lot of APS positions have been cut the last couple years.

 

[RS190]

Not one APS in my district has team lead responsibilities, they do none if what you listed. All leadership is absorbed by the etl-ap

Plus, stores are much more likely to have an aptl than an aps. Stores need high theft trends to even justify having an aps

I don't know how it's done where your spot is, but here aptl is higher than aps in pay, responsibility, and authority. All aps' are responsible for is apprehensions for the most part (knowing this due to my store having two and me knowing every other aps in the district personally)

 

[signingminion]

A lot of APS positions have been cut the last couple years.

No aps in our store since open. Just an aptl.

 

[WhyYouNoVibing]

Not one APS in my district has team lead responsibilities, they do none if what you listed. All leadership is absorbed by the etl-ap

Plus, stores are much more likely to have an aptl than an aps. Stores need high theft trends to even justify having an aps

I don't know how it's done where your spot is, but here aptl is higher than aps in pay, responsibility, and authority. All aps' are responsible for is apprehensions for the most part (knowing this due to my store having two and me knowing every other aps in the district personally)

No aps in our store since open. Just an aptl.

Okay, so idk if my district/group is the anomaly when it comes to AP. My understanding was since they're cutting the Sr. TPS positions their leaving all stats to APS's now. TPS will only be there for presence, safe and secure and PMR's. Well, according to our commitment meeting thats what it seemed like.
And another thing every team leader meeting, I always see our APS there. In my store, APS is a team leader and have team leader responsibiliites, we'll what I witness. RS190 you'll enjoy being an APS in my store; basically an APTL what I see.

 

[mrknownothing]

No aps in our store since open. Just an aptl.

We had one until AE14. Now we just have 2 TPS and an ETL-AP.

 

[OnSix]

Couple things....

APS are not in every store, in every district at least. In fact there are only 4 in my district, and two of them are actually at one store. That store is known to have more people stealing than shopping, averaging 175+ apps a year. Some are deployed to other stores depending on trends, but not on a permanent basis. Most of the other stores have either the ETL/TPS combo or just APTL. In my district at least, APS is equal pay to APTL. If there is no APTL the APS usually has control of the TPS team.

As for the APTL position that was given to someone in store simply because it would have hurt peoples feelings, I laugh. My APBP wouldn't have even considered someone for that position without prior (preferably Target) AP/LP experience. It's one thing to give someone new to
AP a chance at TPS, who will have someone there to basically mentor them. It's another to give it to someone who is gonna be on their own. If something goes south it probably won't be pretty. NPI just keeps flashing in my mind right now.

And nothing is official on Sr. TPS for now, at least from what I've heard.

 

[RS190]

Basically where I am APS and APTL are two completely different things. APS is solely in charge of getting results, and ATPL is in charge of running the store's AP. You never see an APS looking at reports or coaching or anything like that here. If you're an APS here you just look for apprehensions. I've no interest in being an APS because an APS is not a leader in this area. An APS is only in stores with an ETL, and ETL's take care of the coachings, interviews, etc. Plus, APS' only work in stores with a LOT of theft.

As far as Sr TPS goes, what I've been told, Sr TPS' aren't being certified anymore. Any current Sr. TPS (including myself) will keep their position, that's not an issue, just when I move on there won't be a senior replacing me. I've been told there CAN be Sr. TPS' signed off, but they'd need Regional approval.

 

[keynesian]

....but

There is a regular backroom team member in his building, with zero AP experience, who has been signed off for a vague "Team Leader position." and he fears that "Giving the position to an external candidate might damage store morale." So what it seemingly came down to is even if I am the better candidate, the STL was afraid to hurt anybody's feelings.

I think its incredibly unfair what happened to you. What I can also tell you, is that I come from a store where regularly the opposite decision is made (we often used look externally for team leads). We had some really solid leaders who knew what they were doing, who understood the process, and largely because they had life experience other than target. These were the best leaders However, we would also regularly "develop" TMs who were ambitious and wanted to work their way up the old fashioned way.

Let me tell you, our turnover, was red for almost 3 years. Our store was in total disarray. Things weren't getting done, TM morale was not only low, but the only way to raise it was to talk about your job hunt. Then we tried something different - we took up people who had been in development, who could relate to the rest of their team, and put them in charge of it. Almost like a wall had been put up, our turnover stopped. We went from like a 30% monthly turnover on the team to everybody staying to at least their 90 days - I think we've lost 2 people in 5 months. Now everything gets done because we don't spend 20% of our labor on training people.

Now, are these former TMs better leaders? Quite the opposite. Actually they come across as immature and a little naive compared to the external hires. But here is where they get 100% better results - they can walk up to a team member and genuinely say "this isn't that hard, I used to do this all the time" and be believed. Or they can say "if we work hard, it will pay off" because they are a living example of it.

While morale may seem like a stupid reason from your perspective, I can tell you there are plenty of worse reasons to promote somebody. Maybe that backroom TM had been in development for over a year - or maybe even a few. Maybe leadership was holding off on developing other people because they already had "somebody in the pipeline". Maybe they were afraid that their whole backroom team would quit if they passed over this guy. Think about it from a team member's perspective "If i can't move up ahead here, why am I sticking around?"

I don't want to start rumors or get your hopes up, but what I can tell you is this much - it is very likely that this internal promotion is going to be a bad fit. Sure, both backroom and AP are "numbers" people, but the responsibilities are SO different, I can't see a backroom TM smoothly making the switch to APTL unless they had significant prior experience with another company. And from reading your post, its obvious that they want to promote you at some point. If I had to guess, your interview wasn't a waste of time. It's entirely possible, that after they fire this internal store promotion, that you will be the first person they call asking to fill an open position