Archived Should I stay or should I go? And how?

[Voicetarget]

I think I self consciously already know the answer to this question, but I just need insight from our seasoned members & leaders here.

Been with Target for about 5 years now. Started as tm, promoted to team leader within first year. My goal has always been to get to ETL level, as I have a Bachelors. From all of my annual reviews, I have always done well- E's during my first 3 years, and 2 EX's my last two. All the ETLs in my store have seen me as a top performer for some time now, as I have been global and supported with so much of the store. When they say jump, I say how high. Fast forward to this past year and I have gotten a new ETL, and have agreed to take on an additional role, doing two leaders jobs as part of my "development". Recently I feel that I've been getting coached on every little aspect and intentionally set up for failure. It is obvious to me my etl does not like me, and as everyone knows, your reputation passes quickly among all etl chats. Its all about politics and not how hard you work. I'm at the point of frustration and not knowing if it is worth it to stick it out and take any more cr*p?
Also, I have accrued max vacation hours (have never used any vacation hours before) and would like to use them. Is it possible to take the vacation while being on the 2 weeks notice at the same time? would they approve it? (could really use this time to look and interview for jobs)

 

[kingpin003]

Not if you want to be marked re-hireable. You'll get paid out for vacation time when you leave, but not any personal or sick you may have. I would try to use any personal you can prior to leaving.

I'll just say that bad ETL's don't last, so you can easily outlast them if you are careful. You just have to get clear direction and ensure that their preferences are being met. My first ETL when I promoted to SrTL was terrible. She was the worst ETL I've worked for, but I made sure to clarify her expectations and do my job with respect to her preferences. It didn't matter that I could run the department better than she could, because I was in survival mode and I knew if I just worked on each task and focused on her priorities, she couldn't coach me on it. So yes, I played the game. She wasn't able to coach me, so she couldn't performance me out and now she's long gone. It alwatys gets better. She left and I got a new ETL that actually listened and worked together. He respected my opinions. He's demanding and we don't always see eye to eye on certain things. But he's allowed me to perform well beyond what I could do with my old ETL because he gives me the support to do my job in my own way.

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

Apply for internship or srtl on ehr. Take a week off. Welcome, btw.

 

[konk]

All of our internals have been transfers. Is that possible for you?

 

[sigma7]

You should really take vacation time. You earn it until you hit the max. If you've never taken any in the last five years, then you've probably been at your max (and not earning any more vacation) for going on three years. That's money you've lost. Start taking at least a day here and there so that you can start accruing vacation again.

 

[Mhugh220]

Take the vacation and look for a job.

 

[Voicetarget]

Not if you want to be marked re-hireable. You'll get paid out for vacation time when you leave, but not any personal or sick you may have. I would try to use any personal you can prior to leaving.

I'll just say that bad ETL's don't last, so you can easily outlast them if you are careful. You just have to get clear direction and ensure that their preferences are being met. My first ETL when I promoted to SrTL was terrible. She was the worst ETL I've worked for, but I made sure to clarify her expectations and do my job with respect to her preferences. It didn't matter that I could run the department better than she could, because I was in survival mode and I knew if I just worked on each task and focused on her priorities, she couldn't coach me on it. So yes, I played the game. She wasn't able to coach me, so she couldn't performance me out and now she's long gone. It alwatys gets better. She left and I got a new ETL that actually listened and worked together. He respected my opinions. He's demanding and we don't always see eye to eye on certain things. But he's allowed me to perform well beyond what I could do with my old ETL because he gives me the support to do my job in my own way.

I have never called out for personal/sick or used vacation hours in my 5 yrs so I was not even aware there was a difference o_0. Is it paid personal/sick time? If so, it might be in my interest to use the personal hours before putting in my two weeks and be paid out for the vacation time when I leave.
I've already outlasted 3 ETLs, this current ETL is actually very knowledgeable but has the mindset of giving unreasonable expectations to the team (IE ETL turning over a red floor for the TL to recover at closing while expecting the TL to also 4x4/set 8 salesplanners with only 1 or 2 tms help to close)

All of our internals have been transfers. Is that possible for you?

My additional role that I have taken on recently was at a red standing. I would need to fix the YTD to be green for this area before allowed transfer.

You should really take vacation time. You earn it until you hit the max. If you've never taken any in the last five years, then you've probably been at your max (and not earning any more vacation) for going on three years. That's money you've lost. Start taking at least a day here and there so that you can start accruing vacation again.

Yeah, they have told me that I was at the max after my first 2 years, but I have always never needed that vacation. Now I do, but if my vacation time is paid out upon leaving, I would rather do that instead. Do you recommend this?

Take the vacation and look for a job.

Do you suggest taking the paid vacation or just put in the 2 weeks notice and have vacation hours paid out at the end, if possible?

 

[konk]

I would probably quit and live off the vac pay while I looked for a job. My wife would not allow this though so you should probably take the vacay and look for a job. I think you can take up to two weeks.

 

[sigma7]

It's not about whether you need the vacation time or not. Target is giving you paid time off...2 weeks per year. Once you got to 4 weeks they stopped giving you time off until you used some. You never used any so they never gave you more, even though you could've earned more. That's just leaving money on the table. If you reached your max after two years, then you lost out on six weeks of paid vacation. Even if you reached your max after three years, you lost out on four weeks of vacation. That is anywhere from 160-240 hours of pay you could've gotten for doing exactly what you were already doing. You just needed to use your vacation time that you had already earned. I'm not even saying take a trip, but just take a week off or take a day here and there throughout the year. Take a day off for yourself every month. From here on out, you should really use your vacation time no matter where you end up working.

Back to the point, if you're planning on putting in your two weeks, I would use some of your vacation time first. Maybe take a week off. then come back and put in your two weeks. It would probably better to use your vacation time than to take it all in one lump sum for tax reasons. Lump sum payments of accrued sick pay or vacation upon termination of employment are classified as a supplemental wage payment. Employers can choose to tax this at the aggregate rate or at a flat 25% rate. I'm not sure how Target chooses to withhold taxes in this situation, but it seems likely that they would choose the flat 25% method since this is much easier to calculate. Basically, they will withhold 25% of your vacation payout. This is usually the preferred method for the recipient too. The aggregate method combines the payout with your final paycheck, calculates the tax withholding at this higher income threshold (which will probably be in a higher tax bracket), subtracts what has already been withheld from your final wages, and then takes the remainder out of your vacation/sick/personal leave payout. The aggregate method usually winds up with the employer withholding more than 25% of the bonus.

I was an accounting major for three years...glad to know my income tax classes haven't totally left me!

I say stick it out if you can. You can outlast this ETL. I've outlasted several ETLs who didn't have their heads screwed on straight.

 

[sigma7]

Addendum to my previous post:

The two methods of handling vacation payouts will only affect your tax withholding. Once you file your personal return, you will receive back any money that was withheld in excess or pay any remaining tax liability. These methods of withholding will only affect your income temporarily. Although if you quit now, this temporary period would be upwards of six months.

And to make things clearer...
Let's say you make $18/hour and you work 40 hours/week. Your last paycheck is $1,440. Your vacation payout is a separate check for $2,880. Target withholds 25% of your vacation payout, so you wind up with $2,160 for your vacation payout, with $720 withheld. Your wages are taxed at 25%, so they take out $360 and you get $1,080. Basically you get $3,240 as your last paychecks.

Let's assume instead that Target uses the aggregate method. Your final wages are still $1,440. Your vacation payout is still $2,880. This time your wages and supplemental wages are combined for a total of $4,320. Annualized out, your income would be $112,320. Target uses this at your tax base. You're now taxed at 28% for this amount of annual income. Your total tax withholding is $1,210. Target withholds from your wages at your normal rate, so once again $360 comes out of your wages. The remaining $850 comes out of your vacation payout, leaving your vacation payout at $2,030. So now your last check is $3,110.

 

[redeye58]

If you use your vay cay before leaving (ie: to fill up your 2 weeks notice), you can stay on payroll & retain benefits for that much longer.
If you don't use/need your health ins then it wouldn't matter & sigma's advice is solid regardless.

 

[Retail Girl]

It boggles my mind that a company like Spot could say to you, "here, take some time off, and we'll pay you to stay home and take an extra day off" and you declined, for three straight years. They would pay you either way, but you elected to work, essentially working for free.

Don't do that at your next job.

 

[Voicetarget]

Addendum to my previous post:

The two methods of handling vacation payouts will only affect your tax withholding. Once you file your personal return, you will receive back any money that was withheld in excess or pay any remaining tax liability. These methods of withholding will only affect your income temporarily. Although if you quit now, this temporary period would be upwards of six months.

And to make things clearer...
Let's say you make $18/hour and you work 40 hours/week. Your last paycheck is $1,440. Your vacation payout is a separate check for $2,880. Target withholds 25% of your vacation payout, so you wind up with $2,160 for your vacation payout, with $720 withheld. Your wages are taxed at 25%, so they take out $360 and you get $1,080. Basically you get $3,240 as your last paychecks.

Let's assume instead that Target uses the aggregate method. Your final wages are still $1,440. Your vacation payout is still $2,880. This time your wages and supplemental wages are combined for a total of $4,320. Annualized out, your income would be $112,320. Target uses this at your tax base. You're now taxed at 28% for this amount of annual income. Your total tax withholding is $1,210. Target withholds from your wages at your normal rate, so once again $360 comes out of your wages. The remaining $850 comes out of your vacation payout, leaving your vacation payout at $2,030. So now your last check is $3,110.

Thank you for your clarification. Your accounting expertise has definitely come into play and help me here. I think the clear choice for me would be to take my two weeks vacation first to job search and put in my two weeks when I return.

It boggles my mind that a company like Spot could say to you, "here, take some time off, and we'll pay you to stay home and take an extra day off" and you declined, for three straight years. They would pay you either way, but you elected to work, essentially working for free.

Don't do that at your next job.

That's my flaw. I'm a very hands-on leader to a fault and not very trusting of delegating extended projects/areas to my team. My OCD kicks in whenever I'm gone for even a weekend. I have always said that I wanted to wait until the right time to take time off, when I "needed it", but its a big life lesson to take away. I realize now that there may never be a right time, but to take things when you want them vs when you need them.

 

[Mhugh220]

When I left I had my vacation time paid out but I had a job to go to. You could use your vacation time to go to interviews. Find a job then give two weeks or if you can afford it, just give 2 weeks and get the vacation paid out.