Archived Do you ever worry about free speech at Target?

[Guest]

Red eye, wow that was incredibly rude of the guest to say something like that. How would that woman feel if you went to her job and condemned her for not being a boss or in management if that was the case? I have no sympathy for douchebag guests at the store. You think you're better than retail workers? Work a weekend on the sales floor or the backroom and tell me how you like it.

 

[Burlseveryday]

Red eye, wow that was incredibly rude of the guest to say something like that. How would that woman feel if you went to her job and condemned her for not being a boss or in management if that was the case? I have no sympathy for douchebag guests at the store. You think you're better than retail workers? Work a weekend on the sales floor or the backroom and tell me how you like it.

I actually went to a private high school so I(unfortunately) have been around these types of people a lot. In my experience, most of the individuals who make comments like that haven't worked a day in their lives. Bad parenting has allowed them to develop the mindset that everyone who is struggling is a bad/lazy person and that's why they are struggling. I knew classmates who actually thought they had something to do with the fact that there had been millions of dollars in their family for hundreds of years. When I started work at Target it was to gain perspective on the workings of the real word which I hadn't had much experience with. People I used to be friends with stopped talking to me because of it. That really bothered me for a long time. Eventually I accepted the fact that I can't change people I can only encourage them to change. That behavior is a reflection of their personality flaws not of mine.

 

[Guest]

I cannot stand it when some arrogant rich people say "poor people choose to be poor". That is incredibly rude. Do you really think a person chooses to have to work themselves to death just to survive? Some people aren't born with silver spoons in their mouths.

 

[Retail Girl]

Let's stay away from the personal attacks, please.

 

[commiecorvus]

@brobley don't do that. Hitler, the ovens, its the kind of over the top rhetoric that I find disgusting both as a Jew and a member of this board.
You're better than that and whatever Jacks faults he doesn't deserve anything that harsh.
My first thought was to just kill the post which is our job when it comes to direct insults but I think it might be worth a shot at an apology.
You up for that?

 

[Bored Food Aver]

One of my friends at work got to the point of tears when this lady said that she wanted her daughter to go to college so she wouldn't have a crappy job (like my friend) and that working at Target is what happens when you don't apply yourself and make bad choices.

Her husband is deployed overseas a lot and has a 1 year old son that she takes care of. She went to college, but this is the best she can do at the moment.

I would've just bitchslapped the first person who would say that to my face; there is absolutely NO call for saying something like that to someone else.

 

[redeye58]

I'm always tempted to tell them that they don't know jack about me outside this store & how dare they ASSume such.

For what it was worth, the daughter was embarrassed for her mother. They're regulars & I know the mom is just a housefrau who 'volunteers' for feel-good causes a few times a week so she can say she's helping the less fortunate while failing to understand anything about the circumstances that land them there.

Meanwhile, a few of us have a little underground network to help out fellow TMs who have been hit particularly hard with life from time to time. Helps us develop empathy & to appreciate even the very little some of us have.

 

[Guest]

I've have had worse things said about me to me.

This is how I would have responded to that uppity rich woman.

 

[brobley]

@brobley don't do that. Hitler, the ovens, its the kind of over the top rhetoric that I find disgusting both as a Jew and a member of this board.
You're better than that and whatever Jacks faults he doesn't deserve anything that harsh.
My first thought was to just kill the post which is our job when it comes to direct insults but I think it might be worth a shot at an apology.
You up for that?

I did kill the quote, then haven't been back in a bit, just saw your post.

Yes, I owe an apology to Jack and to any and all who were offended. I'm sorry. I went too far, beyond bad taste and into just bad. I regret it.

 

[brobley]

And as much as no one should take too much to heart the words tossed through the internet hole, no one should toss ugly words into that hole, either.

I am guilty of being a huge dick, and I am sorry.

 

[redeye58]

Welcome back, brobley.
We've all veered; ain't none of us a saint but just trying to keep it in perspective.

 

[Guest]

Do any of you agree that getting offended is a part of life? What I mean by that is you can't realistically think that you will never be offended by someone or something during your entire life.

 

[icaruslived]

Depends on what degree really.

 

[Guest]

You hear a bad word or possibly offensive word. I still think it has to be an all or nothing system when it comes to the words and punishment. Saying the n word should be the same as you calling someone a mother lover. Just because a word has a history against a certain group does not put it above a bad word. I know some people will destroy me for saying that but I stand by it. No matter if it's a bad word or a word that has history against a certain group, the punishment should be the same. I would also say that the punishment should be the same no matter what type of person says the word or words. I still support free speech clauses if it's in a contract of some sort. That's what I would do if I was insanely rich.

 

[commiecorvus]

And as much as no one should take too much to heart the words tossed through the internet hole, no one should toss ugly words into that hole, either.

I am guilty of being a huge dick, and I am sorry.

It's all good.
Thank you for being one of the good guys.
It's very appreciated.

 

[Rarejem]

The fighting words doctrine, in United States constitutional law, is a limitation to freedom of speech as protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.

In 1942, the U.S. Supreme Court established the doctrine by a 9-0 decision in Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire. It held that "insulting or 'fighting words,' those that by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace" are among the "well-defined and narrowly limited classes of speech the prevention and punishment of [which] ... have never been thought to raise any constitutional problem."

There are constitutional limitations to freedom of speech.

 

[Guest]

Can't a person just say "I am hurt by your words" and the offender's life is destroyed? I understand that people get their feelings hurt sometimes by words. However, some people also lie and exaggerate when they say they are offended. You can also say that the offended may milk their situation for their own political agenda and personal gain. I have no respect for people like that. What I don't like is when people say "you said the n-word to me or called me a gay slur" and act like every black person or gay person has been hurt and/or killed. Let's be honest, if you call someone a name at all, you are singling out that person and that one person only. Unless you specify that you are talking about the group as a whole, then you can't legitimately say that that entire group was offended and hurt or killed.

 

[commiecorvus]

When you don't come from a group of people who have been routinely denigrated and made out to be less than human through the use of legal terms and direct insults, it's impossible to understand how they feel having to deal with people who have no idea what the hell they are saying.

 

[Guest]

I technically don't belong to a minority group but I was harassed, bullied, and ridiculed in high school 24/7 with all sorts of insults so trust me I know what it's like to be called names. With that being said, I had all that crap done to me and you don't see me asking for a parade or sympathy.

 

[melvin]

When you don't come from a group of people who have been routinely denigrated and made out to be less than human through the use of legal terms and direct insults, it's impossible to understand how they feel having to deal with people who have no idea what the hell they are saying.

I think you've seen from previous threads that we are of similar minds on many things, and I completely agree here that thos of us in the majority lack an understanding of the things that minorities go through on a regular basis. Fifty years ago, the civil rights movement fought institutional discrimination. With situations like this in the workplace at Target, we aren't talking about institutional racism, we're talking about bigotry demonstrated by a few individuals. It's unfair that anyone be placed in this position in the first place, and people don't like to hear this, but the proper response is for the object of the bigoted comments to confront the offender. A couple months back at the local college, some of the minority students created a video and Facebook page about some of the ignorant comments directed towards them. They also created a poster. Some student placed a post-it note on it which said, "This is the most racist thing I've ever seen!" This led the chancellor to call a summit meeting and for the organization for black students to organize a march that included the chancellor. The response by the minority students and the chancellor could not have been more misguided. It was a massive overreaction and rather than portraying minority students as strong, it confirms to the bigots that minority students are weak and overreact. When we substitute individuals confronting individuals who make bigoted comments at the point it happens and replace it with "zero tolerance" policies, summit meetings, et cetera, we change very few attitudes and actually encourage negative stereotypes about minorities. I'm certainly not saying an employer should tolerate an employee who goes around saying "ni*gger," but what if an employee makes an ignorant comment like, "Blacks are just looking for handouts?" Should an employee be disciplined or fired for expressing this opinion, stupid as it is? I don't think so, and I think the appropriate response is for enlightened people who hear it to confront it immediately, not go to a manager and demand they do the confrontation for them or start up the four-step disciplinary, zero tolerance policy. That's how you deal with these individuals and I'm confident that this is how the folks who successfully fought against institutional racism and changed much of it would respond. I am just completely in the wrong era in terms of other leftists, who are just much more apt to try to silence offensive speech. Be careful what you wish for, because we have opponents on the other side who will be all too willing to silence speech they find offensive when they have the power to act upon it.

 

[alittleconfused]

see: http://www.thebreakroom.org/index.php?threads/a-little-confused.8340/

 

[commiecorvus]

see: http://www.thebreakroom.org/index.php?threads/a-little-confused.8340/

Valid point.
The company is going to do everything it can to control what you might say that would in any way effect their control over your coworkers.
Which is why any mention of unions will be crushed without a movements notice even though it's against the law.
Why do you think we have to be so careful about our identities here?
Spot certainly has the legal 'right', to fire you for little or no reason at all except that you have pissed them off in most " Right To Work" states, that doesn't make it right.

 

[Guest]

I just think the thought and word police are everywhere so you have definitely have to watch everything you say or comes out of your mind because someone may use that against you to destroy your life. It's sad but some people are like that. The holier than thou types that are usually the first to cast judgment on you or the offender without even looking into the mirror and seeing their own flaws and faults.

 

[GrumpyAP]

When you don't come from a group of people who have been routinely denigrated and made out to be less than human through the use of legal terms and direct insults, it's impossible to understand how they feel having to deal with people who have no idea what the hell they are saying.

This. I have an ETL who is not good at communicating her feelings or impressions on a situation. This is especially difficult when they are in charge of HR and when I have to close with her and am the only AP person in the building. At first I thought they got all these ETLs out of some sort of horrific career day at the local public university. Apparently they set up the booth on the other side of the quad from the communication majors.