Archived To Ask or Not to Ask...

[RandomNerd]

So, as TPS I can't apprehend. Only the SR-TPS and the AP-TL can. I'm on my own quite often in the store because I am usually the opening TPS. I still wear red and khaki, so my presence doesn't really ward off the shoplifters. In fact, I feel like my big fat NEW MEMBER tag and me looking like a regular TM gives shoplifters the confidence that they can steal in my presence.

With that said, my usual tactic for a PMR (which has worked), is to catch them on the camera in the beginning processes of concealment. Then I am on foot, and I am a pretty quick walker, and headed in their direction. I pretend to zone, ask them if they need help, and follow them around like that fly that won't leave you alone. Sometimes they dump. Once a lady actually went into the bathroom, took off all the merchandise, and put it in the trashcan (I followed her for almost half an hour) - and a bunch of kids scattered like ants when I caught them opening stuff. The whole trying to make people nervous until they dump thing is great and all, but there have been times where I got stopped by guests and had to assist them rather than stay on a person of interest.

I'm sure this is a stupid question, but I am confused because I have no ability to make arrests. If I observe all five steps, can I stop them and say, "Hey, I know you concealed something, do you want to put it back or....?" Or do I really have to take the chance of them either dumping or walking out of the store with the merchandise? One of the TPS told me that I can't really do much about it if a shoplifter doesn't want to confess, and I don't want to chance it seeming like I am trying to make an apprehension when it's not within my power as a TPS. As said before, I am on my own most of the time because we are a relatively slow store.

In my two weeks of training, I pretty much felt like I was told about what I can't do rather than what I could do. Like there is little hope of me catching PMRs because others made it sound like it was in the shoplifter's control rather than my own. If that makes sense.

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

know what tm's can help you. If it was me, I would be all over that guest..can I help you find something? If they were in my area.

 

[RandomNerd]

That's what I am doing. Guest servicing a person over and over again. You won't believe some of the random things people come up with. Lol. I just feel like there should be something I can do that doesn't rely on chance. The SR-TPS gets a PMR every shift. He's in control of the shoplifter, but I feel like it's the other way around with me - they are in control. I can barely meet my PMR quota because I work four-five hours in the morning, and the bulk of the routine consists of paperwork and merch protect. I don't want to be that TPS that shoplifters see and go, "Hey, we can steal whatever we want! Wooo! Let's go."

The TMs at the store are great for helping out, but sometimes it's hard to find one on the floor when that guest comes up to me while I am stalking a person of interest around.

 

[commiecorvus]

I don't know about the rules at Target but when I worked at the grocery store the technique was to ask them if they needed a basket to carry what they had.
Then if they insist they don't have anything to follow them in an obvious fashion until they drop what they have or try to make a break for it.

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

It is game of tag, just ask a nearby tm to help you & say can I help.. is a start, if you ask the tm's or tl who know, they are all over it. My key word is tag the guest or the word shadow..

 

[AllThingsTarget101]

You can PMR them at the door if you observe all 5 steps.

i am usually not so nice about it because sometimes they'll walk right out or ignore you. I usually say something along the lines of "hey I need to ask you a question. Can I have <insert item> out of your purse/pocket/bag or wherever it is" It has worked 99% of the time for me.

 

[forgetfulSDA]

If you have seen them conceal merchandise or begin the process of concealment I am all for PMR-ing the shit out of them. I will approach and ask if they found everything they are looking for and specifically call out the merchandise you saw them conceal. I usually say something like "I saw you looking at (blank) merchandise earlier did you have any questions?" or "Did find all of the (blank) that you were looking for?". After that I drop back a little bit so I can watch to see if them dump. If they don't dump I make my presence noticeable by zoning and give them the evil eye.

Also if you are in the middle of a PMR and a guest asks you a question it is perfectly okay to tell them you will send a team member over in one minute as you are dealing with something else. If they don't understand tell them what you are doing and trying to prevent a shoplifter. Make sure you have a walkie to call a team member to assist them and if need be get the LOD involved to assist you with the PMR or the guest.

Oh and DON'T stop someone and say you saw them conceal something. That can go very very bad if they do not have the merchandise on them as you are accusing them of shoplifting and you are not app certified. It is best you go for the PMR with shadow guest service so there is no risk of causing NPI issues.

 

[Amaazingdude]

So, as TPS I can't apprehend. Only the SR-TPS and the AP-TL can. I'm on my own quite often in the store because I am usually the opening TPS. I still wear red and khaki, so my presence doesn't really ward off the shoplifters. In fact, I feel like my big fat NEW MEMBER tag and me looking like a regular TM gives shoplifters the confidence that they can steal in my presence.

With that said, my usual tactic for a PMR (which has worked), is to catch them on the camera in the beginning processes of concealment. Then I am on foot, and I am a pretty quick walker, and headed in their direction. I pretend to zone, ask them if they need help, and follow them around like that fly that won't leave you alone. Sometimes they dump. Once a lady actually went into the bathroom, took off all the merchandise, and put it in the trashcan (I followed her for almost half an hour) - and a bunch of kids scattered like ants when I caught them opening stuff. The whole trying to make people nervous until they dump thing is great and all, but there have been times where I got stopped by guests and had to assist them rather than stay on a person of interest.

I'm sure this is a stupid question, but I am confused because I have no ability to make arrests. If I observe all five steps, can I stop them and say, "Hey, I know you concealed something, do you want to put it back or....?" Or do I really have to take the chance of them either dumping or walking out of the store with the merchandise? One of the TPS told me that I can't really do much about it if a shoplifter doesn't want to confess, and I don't want to chance it seeming like I am trying to make an apprehension when it's not within my power as a TPS. As said before, I am on my own most of the time because we are a relatively slow store.

In my two weeks of training, I pretty much felt like I was told about what I can't do rather than what I could do. Like there is little hope of me catching PMRs because others made it sound like it was in the shoplifter's control rather than my own. If that makes sense.

You are just like a regular team member if you can't make apps. You never can say "I know you concealed" that's basically a app which you are not allowed to do. And why arnt you in uniform ? Try for the PMRs. Once they conceal get every team member go ask them "can I help you find something" if all else fails and they leave with the items. Get the car tag number and save video and show it to ur AP-TL when you see him/her next. You will have a pretty good KTR

 

[Amaazingdude]

You can PMR them at the door if you observe all 5 steps.

i am usually not so nice about it because sometimes they'll walk right out or ignore you. I usually say something along the lines of "hey I need to ask you a question. Can I have <insert item> out of your purse/pocket/bag or wherever it is" It has worked 99% of the time for me.

You are not allowed to do that. That's a APP. It can turn out pretty bad for you and you can get a NPI. If they say no...let me speak with the manager...its not like the LOD can search them & the LOD isn't allowed to call the police on theft on the word of the TPS. After they speak with the LOD this will turn into a NPI...which you will have to call the APBP right after. You will have to tell the APBP you made a stop without being APP trainied. A NPI is a final for someone who is APP trained. A NPI without being trained is a auto term.

 

[AllThingsTarget101]

You can PMR them at the door if you observe all 5 steps.

i am usually not so nice about it because sometimes they'll walk right out or ignore you. I usually say something along the lines of "hey I need to ask you a question. Can I have <insert item> out of your purse/pocket/bag or wherever it is" It has worked 99% of the time for me.

You are not allowed to do that. That's a APP. It can turn out pretty bad for you and you can get a NPI. If they say no...let me speak with the manager...its not like the LOD can search them & the LOD isn't allowed to call the police on theft on the word of the TPS. After they speak with the LOD this will turn into a NPI...which you will have to call the APBP right after. You will have to tell the APBP you made a stop without being APP trainied. A NPI is a final for someone who is APP trained. A NPI without being trained is a auto term.

It's not an APP if you don't detain them or stop them. It's allowed, it is done all the time.

 

[Wizard89]

Holy crap NEVER say that. I literally just cringed at that statement. I don't care if you see all five steps or the person looked at you and told you they were going to steal something, you just keep doing what you are doing. What works is awkwardly staring at them like a piece of meat. Think back to when you were 14 and a 17 year old girl walked by and all you could think to yourself was "dont look, dont look, dont look" but what you really were doing was making a ass out of yourself as you stared at her walking down the hall.

Story:
- When I started doing this, a young TPS (lets call him Kevin) who was fed up with the amount of stealing that was going on in the morning shift (I usually came in afternoon and nights) called someone out on it. He watched the same person time and again come in once a week and steal some laundry detergent. Kevin decided that he wasn't going to tell me about this person so I could change my schedule and work with him to apprehend our Tide stealing subject. Kevin decided that he was going to keep this one all to himself because one day he knew he would get Sr. TPS and he would take this person to pad his numbers. Kevin was a @#$*ing idiot.

Anyway Kevin didn't get the promotion because well like I said before, Kevin was a #$*@ing idiot. Apparently fed up with his life choices and not being the guy who could "catch em all" decided he would say something to the subject. This is where it all went terribly wrong. Subject comes in like clockwork to steal ONE tide detergent worth like $7.99 (already WAY to low to apprehend on) and Kevin is on this subject like a fat kid on a ice cream truck. Kevin is bobbing and weaving through aisles like a mother @#$*ing snake. He sees the subject select and then put it in their ridiculously big coat. BOOM, Kevin strikes and says (no shit) "Hey bro, I watch you steal this shit every week and I need you to put it back".

*** Things that Kevin would know if he had to make a apprehension ***
- Above $20.00
- Have to witness them walk with the merch, fail to pay for the merch, attempt to leave
- HAVE TO BE @#$*ING CERTIFIED TO APPREHEND

Well our subject was a season shoplifter who like other seasoned shoplifters knew the Target rules like the back of his hand. Tide guy calls our STL out and files a complaint, which turns into a NPI, which turns into a lawsuit. Kevin is fired for being a @#$*ing idiot and the shoplifter got a nice pay day because of it.

 

[Kartman]

It's amazing how impotent AP really is.

 

[RandomNerd]

Not AP, but tps could use a little help. I am beginning to notice that shoplifters are getting to know when the newer tps are being scheduled. I honestly feel like it is a scheduling issue at my store, and I might have a chat with somebody about it. When I did nvi training, other stores had their stuff on lock. They get stats all of the time. Granted, they work in high volume stores, but they seem to mostly always have someone that can apprehend. Here its like those that can apprehend get scheduled together, and its very noticeable when shoplifters realize when they can get away with the most stuff. If mornings are when the majority of my off camera tasks are being performed, we should be able to have two of us on.

Oh, well. I like my job, but I think common sense is not here.

 

[Amaazingdude]

You can PMR them at the door if you observe all 5 steps.

i am usually not so nice about it because sometimes they'll walk right out or ignore you. I usually say something along the lines of "hey I need to ask you a question. Can I have <insert item> out of your purse/pocket/bag or wherever it is" It has worked 99% of the time for me.

You are not allowed to do that. That's a APP. It can turn out pretty bad for you and you can get a NPI. If they say no...let me speak with the manager...its not like the LOD can search them & the LOD isn't allowed to call the police on theft on the word of the TPS. After they speak with the LOD this will turn into a NPI...which you will have to call the APBP right after. You will have to tell the APBP you made a stop without being APP trainied. A NPI is a final for someone who is APP trained. A NPI without being trained is a auto term.

It's not an APP if you don't detain them or stop them. It's allowed, it is done all the time.

You asking them for the item back is detaining them. Other wise a APP trained team member can loose a step and still stop someone at the door and ask for the item back. Ask your AP-BP I bet my life savings you can't do it.

 

[APredux]

When I worked in Wal-Mart AP we called those "investigative stops"

I wouldn't recommend doing it at Target. I've seen it done, and yes some people get away with it, but it's clearly against directives.

 

[AllThingsTarget101]

You can PMR them at the door if you observe all 5 steps.

i am usually not so nice about it because sometimes they'll walk right out or ignore you. I usually say something along the lines of "hey I need to ask you a question. Can I have <insert item> out of your purse/pocket/bag or wherever it is" It has worked 99% of the time for me.

You are not allowed to do that. That's a APP. It can turn out pretty bad for you and you can get a NPI. If they say no...let me speak with the manager...its not like the LOD can search them & the LOD isn't allowed to call the police on theft on the word of the TPS. After they speak with the LOD this will turn into a NPI...which you will have to call the APBP right after. You will have to tell the APBP you made a stop without being APP trainied. A NPI is a final for someone who is APP trained. A NPI without being trained is a auto term.

It's not an APP if you don't detain them or stop them. It's allowed, it is done all the time.

You asking them for the item back is detaining them. Other wise a APP trained team member can loose a step and still stop someone at the door and ask for the item back. Ask your AP-BP I bet my life savings you can't do it.

Asking someone for an item back is not detaining them.

90% of my pmrs have been done this way and every single one it is stated in my narrative. Your APBP might just have a stick up their ass. The two I have worked for say it's perfectly fine.

I'm confused at your reference of an app trained TM "loosing" a step and still being able to stop someone, please elaborate.

 

[Wizard89]

You must have a very relaxed ETL-AP / APBP / Investigator if they are just letting you "ask for that item back" at the door. That by definition is accusing them of shoplifting and where I'm at, a apprehension. I know that if I was shopping at Target and I went to exit and someone asked me "for that item out of my backpack" and I honestly didn't have something, the STL of that store would have to beg me not to sue:

- Defamation of Character
- False Allegations of Shoplifting
- Emotional Distress
- Harassment 2nd Degree

Those are just some things that you can be hit with for accusing someone of taking a item and them not having it (NPI). That is why Target is so anal about the five steps because God forbid you NPI the wrong person that sues you for the above and then tacks on

- Racial Profiling
- Religious Profiling
- Ethnic Profiling (relatively the same)

These are all examples I've seen of lawsuits where Target WILL 100% just settle to stay out of the news, which results in you getting fired.

 

[commiecorvus]

So I'm curious if you offer them a basket to carry the item you saw them put in the pocket, as long as you didn't press it if they insisted they didn't have anything would that be considered a stop or fall into one of those sueable categorys?

 

[Amaazingdude]

You are not allowed to do that. That's a APP. It can turn out pretty bad for you and you can get a NPI. If they say no...let me speak with the manager...its not like the LOD can search them & the LOD isn't allowed to call the police on theft on the word of the TPS. After they speak with the LOD this will turn into a NPI...which you will have to call the APBP right after. You will have to tell the APBP you made a stop without being APP trainied. A NPI is a final for someone who is APP trained. A NPI without being trained is a auto term.

It's not an APP if you don't detain them or stop them. It's allowed, it is done all the time.

You asking them for the item back is detaining them. Other wise a APP trained team member can loose a step and still stop someone at the door and ask for the item back. Ask your AP-BP I bet my life savings you can't do it.

Asking someone for an item back is not detaining them.

90% of my pmrs have been done this way and every single one it is stated in my narrative. Your APBP might just have a stick up their ass. The two I have worked for say it's perfectly fine.

I'm confused at your reference of an app trained TM "loosing" a step and still being able to stop someone, please elaborate.

What if they say no than complain to the STL? Nobody is allowed to check them. That is a NPI. I wouldn't "ask someone for the item back" not unless you plan on pulling them.

 

[NitroKing2110]

So I'm curious if you offer them a basket to carry the item you saw them put in the pocket, as long as you didn't press it if they insisted they didn't have anything would that be considered a stop or fall into one of those sueable categorys?

I am not AP, but my TPS told me to never ask about that specific item. Things like "would you like a basket for your items today?" "Would you like a basket for your shopping?" Are what I use when I'm CIHYFS-ing the hell out of a shoplifter, in lieu of "would you like a basket for your iPad today?" When I nabbed my only Non-AP PMR I asked if they wanted a basket for "their items" and they just said uh no thanks, ran off, dropped their shit in the middle of an aisle and bolted out. Not a complaint was heard from HR or my ETL-AP regarding my asking with "their items" rather than "the nest thermostat I just saw you put down your pants"

 

[AllThingsTarget101]

It's not an APP if you don't detain them or stop them. It's allowed, it is done all the time.

You asking them for the item back is detaining them. Other wise a APP trained team member can loose a step and still stop someone at the door and ask for the item back. Ask your AP-BP I bet my life savings you can't do it.

Asking someone for an item back is not detaining them.

90% of my pmrs have been done this way and every single one it is stated in my narrative. Your APBP might just have a stick up their ass. The two I have worked for say it's perfectly fine.

I'm confused at your reference of an app trained TM "loosing" a step and still being able to stop someone, please elaborate.

What if they say no than complain to the STL? Nobody is allowed to check them. That is a NPI. I wouldn't "ask someone for the item back" not unless you plan on pulling them.

Video is your best friend. Video doesn't lie.

I am not saying that I do not see the concerns in PMRing this way, but it works and I have never been talked to about it. Everyone above me is happy and the results keep coming, so this is the way I will continue doing it until I move up in June.