Archived ETL and TL turnover

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We had an ETL leave earlier this year who gave more than 2 week's notice but didn't get the farewell party that the most recent ETL'er did (he is now a business partner....I have no idea what that really means). She wasn't "allowed" to tell us where she went but every once in a while her name comes up. Some of the ones who have even stayed within the company are treated with the "they who shall not be named" treatment.

If she is a business partner, she did not leave the company. She just got promoted to a really high level.... Business partners are above even DTLs.

Business partners are not above DTLs..they're not even above STLs (except senior business partners)

We had an ETL leave earlier this year who gave more than 2 week's notice but didn't get the farewell party that the most recent ETL'er did (he is now a business partner....I have no idea what that really means). She wasn't "allowed" to tell us where she went but every once in a while her name comes up. Some of the ones who have even stayed within the company are treated with the "they who shall not be named" treatment.

If she is a business partner, she did not leave the company. She just got promoted to a really high level.... Business partners are above even DTLs.

I know you were already corrected on this, but I thought I would add that a BP is parallel to an STL, however, at an STL's own store, pretty much what the STL says, goes. They have ownership of that store.

BPs are in charge of specialized areas such as Food and AP. They work under the DTL at the District office, and they are at about the same level as a STL. So an ETL-AP, for example, has [at least] two bosses: the STL and the district's APBP.
 
Wow, all of you beat me to it. Also, I'm nearly positive that BPs make slightly less salary than an STL. *The more you know*
 
Wow, all of you beat me to it. Also, I'm nearly positive that BPs make slightly less salary than an STL. *The more you know*

You might be right, in general, but I also know of STLs that moved into BP roles before getting a DTL position.
 
Wow - you guys do not seem to understand what the role of the business partners is at all.

Business partners *are* above DTLs *in their respective area*.

Business partners are not above DTLs in terms of general "management" over a store, obviously.

However, they ARE over a DTL when it comes to decisions related to their area.

So, for example, let's say a DTL wants to fire an ETL. The HR business partner comes in and says "Nope, can't do it for X reason". The business partner decision goes. HR business partner wins in all HR issues. End of story.

Now, if the DTL said "I want this store to have an extra cart pusher" and the HR business partner has a problem with it, too bad. HR Business partner gets told to fu** off because it is not an HR issue.

Now, *in practice* the business partner usually works hand in hand with DTL/STLs. But if the business partner really wanted to make an issue of something, their decision goes as long as it is in their area.

This is similar to if the ETL-GE and ETL-HL having a dispute in their areas. Say, for example, the ETL-HL wants to audit all the signs in hardlines. The ETL-GE comes by and says "That's stupid don't do it". They get into an argument about it, and they both press the issue. The ETL-HL wins. Now, *in practice* this type of situation usually doesn't happen, but if it did that is how it would go down. Same situation for the business partners.
 
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Here is a job description for the AP-Business Partner just so you guys can see what I am talking about. I have bolded the key phrase below: (Take note of "MULTI-DISTRICT LOSS PREVENTION MANAGER" - the DTL is over one district, but the AP business partner is over multiple districts *for AP issues*.... As well as "MANAGE the assets protection function in 15-20 stores")


Assets Protection Business Partner


Similar Industry Titles and Key Words: Multi-District Loss Prevention Manager


Ensure the protection of Target team members, physical assets and corporate facilities-and help make our Assets Protection team the fastest, smartest and most effective in the industry.

Use your skills, experience and talents to be a part of groundbreaking thinking and visionary goals. As an Assets Protection Business Partner, you'll take the lead as you…

- Manage the Assets Protection function in 15-20 stores- Educate and hold team members accountable to reduce operational shortage, theft and fraud, and safety procedures
- Drive collaboration between store leadership and assets protection team
- Develop strong, strategic partnerships with local law enforcement
- Analyze theft and fraud trends to develop and implement business solutions
- Support roll out of company programs that impact shortage, theft and fraud, and safeness initiatives

Requirements

- 4-year college degree
- Previous supervisory experience
- Investigative and/or retail store experience
- Ability to work with confidential information
- Strong cognitive skills, including: problem analysis, decision making, financial and quantitative analysis
 
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Wow - you guys do not seem to understand what the role of the business partners is at all.

Business partners *are* above DTLs *in their respective area*.

Business partners are not above DTLs in terms of "management" over a store, obviously.

However, they ARE over a DTL when it comes to decisions related to their area.

So, for example, let's say a DTL wants to fire an ETL. The HR business partner comes in and says "Nope, can't do it for X reason". The business partner decision goes. HR business partner wins in all HR issues. End of story.

Now, if the DTL said "I want this store to have an extra cart pusher" and the HR business partner has a problem with it, too bad. HR Business partner gets told to fu** off because it is not an HR issue.

Now, *in practice* the business partner usually works hand in hand with DTL/STLs. But if the business partner really wanted to make an issue of something, their decision goes as long as it is in their area.

This is similar to if the ETL-GE and ETL-HL having a dispute in their areas. Say, for example, the ETL-HL wants to audit all the signs in hardlines. The ETL-GE comes by and says "That's stupid don't do it". They get into an argument about it, and they both press the issue. The ETL-HL wins. Now, *in practice* this type of situation usually doesn't happen, but if it did that is how it would go down. Same situation for the business partners.

Oh, wait, was that another condescending post? I suppose I should feel honored we didn't get a *sigh*


Now, the APBP comes in to a store, tells the ETLs that they should do something different with equipment control. The STL has the final say on whether or not in gets implemented. If it doesn't work for the STL, then it won't happen, as long as the actions aren't violating some major policy, because it is their store. Sure, the APBP can b**** and moan to the DTL, but as long as the STL can back up their decision, the DTL will side with the STL. I've seen it happen, more than once. They are not, paygrade-wise above either the DTL or the STL. And yes, I did see your next post. Thanks for bolding all the hard words so we could understand it.
 
Wow - you guys do not seem to understand what the role of the business partners is at all.

Business partners *are* above DTLs *in their respective area*.

Business partners are not above DTLs in terms of "management" over a store, obviously.

However, they ARE over a DTL when it comes to decisions related to their area.

So, for example, let's say a DTL wants to fire an ETL. The HR business partner comes in and says "Nope, can't do it for X reason". The business partner decision goes. HR business partner wins in all HR issues. End of story.

Now, if the DTL said "I want this store to have an extra cart pusher" and the HR business partner has a problem with it, too bad. HR Business partner gets told to fu** off because it is not an HR issue.

Now, *in practice* the business partner usually works hand in hand with DTL/STLs. But if the business partner really wanted to make an issue of something, their decision goes as long as it is in their area.

This is similar to if the ETL-GE and ETL-HL having a dispute in their areas. Say, for example, the ETL-HL wants to audit all the signs in hardlines. The ETL-GE comes by and says "That's stupid don't do it". They get into an argument about it, and they both press the issue. The ETL-HL wins. Now, *in practice* this type of situation usually doesn't happen, but if it did that is how it would go down. Same situation for the business partners.

Oh, wait, was that another condescending post? I suppose I should feel honored we didn't get a *sigh*


Now, the APBP comes in to a store, tells the ETLs that they should do something different with equipment control. The STL has the final say on whether or not in gets implemented. If it doesn't work for the STL, then it won't happen, as long as the actions aren't violating some major policy, because it is their store. Sure, the APBP can b**** and moan to the DTL, but as long as the STL can back up their decision, the DTL will side with the STL. I've seen it happen, more than once. They are not, paygrade-wise above either the DTL or the STL. And yes, I did see your next post. Thanks for bolding all the hard words so we could understand it.

Dude, you lost the argument. I posted the job description direct from the company. It is plain as day - the AP business partner is multi-district manager. In other words, the AP business partner crushes anyone at the store level on AP issues. It is right there in print. Sorry to burst your bubble.
 
Dude, you lost the argument. I posted the job description direct from the company. It is plain as day - the AP business partner is multi-district manager. In other words, the AP business partner crushes anyone at the store level on AP issues. It is right there in print. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Nobody is saying the are not over multiple districts (in some, not all. my current district has its very own APBP, but not HRBP). What we are all saying is that the paygrade is the same, which means Target considers them parallel, even though you don't. There is no argument, you're simply wrong.
 
To clear this up...bps are not over dtls or even stls. They are experts in their field and their job is to assist the stores. Bps work hand in hand with both the dtl and the stls. Some stls will make lateral moves to bp before promoting however this is just seen as a way to give them district exposure. Hrbps work very closely with the dtl and will assist in making personnel decisions to ensure the district doesn't set itself up for lawsuits etc.
 
Dude, you lost the argument. I posted the job description direct from the company. It is plain as day - the AP business partner is multi-district manager. In other words, the AP business partner crushes anyone at the store level on AP issues. It is right there in print. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Nobody is saying the are not over multiple districts (in some, not all. my current district has its very own APBP, but not HRBP). What we are all saying is that the paygrade is the same, which means Target considers them parallel, even though you don't. There is no argument, you're simply wrong.

Paygrade does not determine your rank in authority over matters.

A flow TM is a higher paygrade than a sales floor TM. Does that mean that flow TMs are "over" sales floor TMs? Hell no. Hell, flow TMs are a higher paygrade than GSAs. I suppose flow TMs are over GSAs now.

Or what about a TL who is a higher paygrade than another TL on the new paygrade system for TLs? Are some TLs "over" other regular TLs? Nope. Or what about ETLs who have moved up paygrades but are still ETLs? Are they over other ETLs? Nope.

Sorry, paygrades do not determine how much authority you have. They determine the dollar amount on your check. That's all. Your job description determines your level of authority and over what areas.
 
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To clear this up...bps are not over dtls or even stls. They are experts in their field and their job is to assist the stores. Bps work hand in hand with both the dtl and the stls. Some stls will make lateral moves to bp before promoting however this is just seen as a way to give them district exposure. Hrbps work very closely with the dtl and will assist in making personnel decisions to ensure the district doesn't set itself up for lawsuits etc.

Exactly. "Set its self up for lawsuits". This is exactly *why* an HR business partner, for example, has the authority to veto decisions by DTLs and anyone below DTLs when it comes to HR issues. If the HR business partner says no, then that is it. Game over.
 
Fair point, paygrade doesn't mean anything regarding authority, however, you didn't seem to like the term "lateral move" so I was trying to put it into a different term. I'm not even sure what you're arguing here. It has been determined that the STL and BP are on the same level, albeit with different realms of authority. Drop it.
 
How long does it take to performance out TL's at your store, never seen it happen at mine.
 
I am very sorry that said something about business partners....I am thrilled for our ETL who is now a "BP" but I am sad for our store because I already see a gaping hole in leadership.
 
Fair point, paygrade doesn't mean anything regarding authority, however, you didn't seem to like the term "lateral move" so I was trying to put it into a different term. I'm not even sure what you're arguing here. It has been determined that the STL and BP are on the same level, albeit with different realms of authority. Drop it.

No dude, I have an actual document in print that I posted on here straight from HQ. You get me a document that says otherwise and then I'll drop it. It clearly says that a business partner is considered a multi-district manager over their area of responsibility. This is in contrast to a DTL which is ONE district general manager. I didn't like your "lateral" comparison because it is bull sh**. Multi-district is broader than one district. Therefore, it is not a lateral comparison. By virtue of being a multi-district manager, the business partner is superior to the DTL in the business partners field of management because the business partner, by virtue of being over more than one district, has a broader range of responsibility. Got that? That's how management works. Management rank is decided by the scope of responsibility. Not the "paygrades" (which determines your rate of pay) nonsense you want to bring up. i.e. TLs are over one or a few departments. ETLs are over multiple departments. STLs are over the whole store. DTLs are over multiple stores in one district. Business partners are over multiple districts (this is confirmed by the core roles I posted for the business partner). See how simple that is?

I think it is really sad that I have to do this, but I am going to post the core roles for a DTL just to finally hammer down how wrong you are.

"Similar Industry Titles and Key Words: District Manager


Use your business, leadership and people skills to inspire exceptional performance. Maximize sales and profits for your Target store. Ensure great guest service and team member satisfaction. Create a fast-paced, energetic environment that delivers a consistent Target brand experience for team members and guests.

Use your skills, experience and talents to be a part of groundbreaking thinking and visionary goals. As a District Team Leader, you'll take the lead as you…
- Uphold the quality and productivity of every aspect of more than $250 million in sales for 10-12 stores
- Motivate and inspire large teams to high performance and fast, fun and friendly service
- Direct store management in merchandising, operational and team functions
- Work to attain maximum profits, sales, return on investment, market share and guest and team member satisfaction
- Plan and lead the team to ensure all positions in the district are staffed with exceptional leaders

Requirements

- 4-year college degree
- Previous multi-unit management experience
- Demonstrated ability to deliver great results and complete multiple tasks simultaneously
- Strong cognitive skills, including problem analysis, decision making, financial and quantitative analysis"


Gee, notice the difference? Core roles for a DTL clearly say DISTRICT MANAGER, whereas business partner core roles clearly say MULTI-DISTRICT MANAGER. (hint: multi-district is a higher level of management than single district) DTL core roles clearly say 10-12 stores are under the DTL. Business partner core roles clearly say 15-20 stores. (hint 15-20 is more than 10-12)

Do I REALLY have to go into work tomorrow, sneak on workbench, and get the damn company pyramid to further prove this point? Because I have seen it during my many adventures on workbench, business partner is clearly listed as a higher level of responsibility, it clearly says that the business partner outranks DTL on the area the business partner manages.
 
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How long does it take to performance out TL's at your store, never seen it happen at mine.

I have seen 2 (maybe 3...not sure about 1). First took about 3 months...that was a GSTL. The second was a SL SrTL....she was asked to step down to a "regular" team lead in February and she "voluntarily" left in June.
 
I am very sorry that said something about business partners....I am thrilled for our ETL who is now a "BP" but I am sad for our store because I already see a gaping hole in leadership.

Don't worry about it. Now I know what I've missed this week...
 
the (new) store I work at just lost its first ETL. It was a young person that was fresh out of college. I wasn't surprised and I was actually relieved - he/she always made me feel uncomfortable because they were so fake. There was something "missing" about them compared to our other ETLs. We got a replenishment ETL right away. and like someone else mentioned, there was NO mention at all whatsoever that person was going to be leaving. I'll never understand why there's so much information protection at Target. No one will tell anyone anything ever. I guess since it's not about numbers it doesn't matter, lol.
 
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most of my ETLs transferred, but the one who did ominously quit ended back up with a different retailer. also, overnight ETLs tend to stick around a bit longer than some. my replenishment ETL has had the same position for 7 years apparently.

btw - these stores run themselves corporate runs everything from the PDA. the dayside etls are just there to listen to guest complaints with a "pretty WASP" face, and hire and fire people, provided said people have a pulse.
 
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You have to learn to speak "business" speak. The person that suddenly leaves to "pursue other opportunities?" They were canned. Just because nobody knows why means nothing. Likely they were under corrective action and close to being termed, WERE termed, or quite before they were termed.

Those that you know are leaving usually do so and give proper notice. They freely let others know.

When I left every member of my team knew. I gave two weeks notice. I worked hard the last two weeks. I was butting head with my ETL-Sr Merch and STL and could read the writing on the wall. Rather than letting them find a way to push me out the door, I found another job and left with my head high in the air. One of our other HL execs left a few months prior to me very suddenly. I found out a few weeks later that he had been under final and regardless of doing everything asked, he was termed anyway. I wasn't going to let that happen to me.
 
Since I have been at my store we are on our 4th STL I do not know why the 1st left but the last 2 "decided to take better opportunities else ware" :nea: they were walked out with boxes of personal stuff inside.

We are on our 3rd ETL log. 1 transferred and 1 took an opportunity else ware . We are on our 5th ETL HR. they all left spot when they left the position. We are on our 4th ETL AP

We have lost at least 5 TLs

We have 2 ETL and 4 TLs still from when I started.

We have never had a party for any STL, ETL or TL when they have left. Most we only learned they were leaving that day.

We do not even get told when a new STL, ETL, or TL is starting. It is all just sprung on us goodbyes and hellos like we are not worthy to know.

I guess the good thing about this is if you leave at any level by your own choice you have a good chance of being rehired in the company. No one that was your supervisor will be there to say anything negative about you.
 
Since I have been at my store we are on our 4th STL I do not know why the 1st left but the last 2 "decided to take better opportunities else ware" :nea: they were walked out with boxes of personal stuff inside.

We are on our 3rd ETL log. 1 transferred and 1 took an opportunity else ware . We are on our 5th ETL HR. they all left spot when they left the position. We are on our 4th ETL AP

We have lost at least 5 TLs

We have 2 ETL and 4 TLs still from when I started.

We have never had a party for any STL, ETL or TL when they have left. Most we only learned they were leaving that day.

We do not even get told when a new STL, ETL, or TL is starting. It is all just sprung on us goodbyes and hellos like we are not worthy to know.

I guess the good thing about this is if you leave at any level by your own choice you have a good chance of being rehired in the company. No one that was your supervisor will be there to say anything negative about you.

Dang.......you have more turnovers that a Pillsbury cold case.
 
You have to learn to speak "business" speak. The person that suddenly leaves to "pursue other opportunities?" They were canned. Just because nobody knows why means nothing. Likely they were under corrective action and close to being termed, WERE termed, or quite before they were termed.

Those that you know are leaving usually do so and give proper notice. They freely let others know.

When I left every member of my team knew. I gave two weeks notice. I worked hard the last two weeks. I was butting head with my ETL-Sr Merch and STL and could read the writing on the wall. Rather than letting them find a way to push me out the door, I found another job and left with my head high in the air. One of our other HL execs left a few months prior to me very suddenly. I found out a few weeks later that he had been under final and regardless of doing everything asked, he was termed anyway. I wasn't going to let that happen to me.

Haha the pursuing othet opportunities bit is true. Thats what i used after i left spot once they began to push me out (i got out on my terms thankfully)
 
Wasn't sure if it was worth bringing up such an old thread instead of starting a new one, but I have basically the same question as the OP.

How is ETL and TL turnover at your stores?

My store seems to have very stable leadership and they all get along nicely.

In the past year and a half, we had a SrTL termed, another SrTL hired, and a TL hired then later quit.

Several TLs rotated positions but other than that, everything has stayed the same.
 
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