Archived Final Warning for "Working Off The Clock"

[redeye58]

They tend to use this selectively at my store, namely for anyone who needs to be taught a lesson or personal vendettas.

 

[Target Annie]

Today I was issued a final warning for "working off the clock." I'm a GSA, and I arrived at the store about 20 minutes early just to get a head start on things. Well, my ETL-HR (while giving me my GSTL keys) says, "You better not do any work before you clock in. You're not going to are you?" I wasn't really sure if she was serious as the culture in our store is laughable on this issue. You could catch at least 5 TM a day "working off the clock" if you wanted to. So my response was a sarcastic: "yeah, I'm definitely not gonna do that. Who would ever do that?"

Trying to make a long story short, I did about 7 minutes worth of work before clocking in. My ETL-HR then confronted me b/c I obviously had printed some papers. I knew she was mad, but I just protested that everybody does it. So, end of the day comes, and I am delivered a final warning by my GSTL. I did not even know that "working off the clock" went immediately to FW, but apparently my ignorance doesn't matter. I wish she would have shared that with me along with her directive to not do any work.

I realize I don't have much of a leg to stand on, but I do have questions about a couple of things. First, she did give me GSTL keys right when I walked in the door, which should also be a violation of this same policy. If she's giving me equipment, then am I not "working?" Secondly, since it's the ETL-HR who issued the FW, who can I talk to about it if I am unhappy with it? I don't think she'll be able to be unbiased. I already talked to my STL once, but I did not remember the detail of the GSTL keys until after we finished talking.

So I'm scheduled to talk to my ETL-HR in the morning, and I have no idea what to really say or if I should even talk to her. Can corrective action ever be rescinded or appealed? Any info or advice anybody has would be helpful to me.

and yeah -- TL;DR -- I'm aware...

Thanks

I guess what bothers me the most about this is that she gave you the keys knowing you were off the clock. Depending on what your relationship is with the STL I would suggest a private chat would be in order. At least the air could be cleared since the HR was obviously wrong.

From what I have read in these posts, stores seem to have different ways of handling this - some store execs don't have a clue that TM work off the clock, some don't care.

Yes, Target takes it seriously.

But only if someone wants to make a point of it. Which is why when they actually write someone up for it - everyone is stunned.

It's wrong for them to have handed you the keys before you were on the clock.

Please keep us informed - sorry you had to have this experience.

 

[mxrbook]

Stores truly differ. When I walk in the door, the operator who is on the HR team hands me a set of keys. I walk to the GS office, stash my stuff, put on equipment (walkie and PDA) and then clock in. It's often 10 to 15 minutes before I clock in that I'm fully "dressed" and ready to hit the floor the minute I clock in. No one has said a word to me about it. The only stipulation is that if an ETL or the STL or any team member for that matter approaches me, I explain that I'm not on the clock so I can't "talk."

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

Stores truly differ. When I walk in the door, the operator who is on the HR team hands me a set of keys. I walk to the GS office, stash my stuff, put on equipment (walkie and PDA) and then clock in. It's often 10 to 15 minutes before I clock in that I'm fully "dressed" and ready to hit the floor the minute I clock in. No one has said a word to me about it. The only stipulation is that if an ETL or the STL or any team member for that matter approaches me, I explain that I'm not on the clock so I can't "talk."

I grab a walkie & PDA. Then if the lod wants to talk, I say not till I punch in. Getting a radio & PDA in the morning is a good thing for salesfloor. After that, everyone wants your toys or it maybe the only free PDA on the floor.

 

[redeye58]

One of our GSTLs was coached for getting equipment while "off the clock" but they said nothing when a favorite HLTM did it.
As I said, it's enforced selectively at my store.

 

[lololo]

She was so in the wrong. She gave you keys. Who gives someone keys when they aren't on the clock? This sounds like it could be an AP issue that someone needs to be notified of.

This whole situation just reeks of your ETL-HR upset because you didn't take her seriously. Which is funny, because no one is going to take her seriously now since this whole situation could have been avoided if you, or even her, did a punch correction. SHE GAVE HERSELF MORE WORK TO DO!!! FOR NOTHING!!! Idiot...

 

[cjllonewolf]

The issue of working off the clock is hilarious to me. At my store (could be company wide for all I know) the Hardlines TL's workload is constantly having things added and piled on top. Almost to the point where ETL's and STL must forget that we are hourly and not salary. Point being the accountability is so high in that environment its all but encouraged to squeeze every last second available to you to complete your workload.

All that aside Ill leave you with this: How is it automatic termination or final warning for printing a few sheets of paper before your shift...but being forced to wait for fifteen minutes for the front door to be unlocked while the LOD gathers their belongings, sends emails, takes a head count, and sets alarms is allowed. So should we do punch corrections every night for the time it takes from clocking out to being let out of the building??? Those 5-15 minutes add up quick

 

[StaticSun]

When I'm closing, I'm usually the latest TM scheduled. I'll wait for the LOD so we can leave together. You should never leave somebody in the store alone at night - LOD or not. If they take an extra 15 minutes and I close 4 nights that week... Guess who just racked up an extra hour of pay?

 

[cjllonewolf]

Yeah theres no issue with waiting for everyone to leave together Im just saying using the no-working-off-the-clock logic, the time we all spend waiting to be let out should be paid

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

When I'm closing, I'm usually the latest TM scheduled. I'll wait for the LOD so we can leave together. You should never leave somebody in the store alone at night - LOD or not. If they take an extra 15 minutes and I close 4 nights that week... Guess who just racked up an extra hour of pay?

If no tl will stay.. Take it!

 

[ptl]

...the time we all spend waiting to be let out should be paid

Yes, it should. Per policy, you should be doing punch corrections for that time or simply not punching out until the LOD is ready to let you out. And it's never going to get better unless you (and your team) start doing it. The LODs will learn quickly that they need to let the team out before gathering their stuff (and just keep the closing TL--on the clock, of course--for that last bit of time), or to start doing their wrap-up stuff fifteen minutes before the team is done so they can call it and already be ready to leave.

 

[mrknownothing]

Here's something to think about. What if a SrTL is the closing LOD with no ETL or STL in the building? SrTL doesn't lock the doors until they leave the store, but they have to punch out before they get to the door. Wouldn't locking the door and turning on the alarm after punching out be considered working off the clock?

The only way that could be avoided is if the store has overnight logistics and the overnight LOD locks the door from inside (our "side door" at the entrance has a deadbolt with keyholes on both sides). But if the store isn't overnight and there's no overnight LOD, then that obviously wouldn't be an option.

 

[ptl]

Indeed, Sr. TLs are required to fill out a punch correction for the time they work after punching out on their closing shifts. It's not just letting the team out and locking the door--they also have to drive a lap around the perimeter of the store to make sure there's nothing suspicious before they leave the store unattended for the next 5-7 hours.

 

[stupid rules]

SrTL should be doing a punch correction for that time daily, including the drive around the building. If you are waiting to be let out at night then you need to do a punch correction the next day, I will let a minute or two slide but when it's 15 minutes I am getting paid for it.

 

[eatcowsnotCAFS]

Target really is insaneeeely serious about working off the clock. It's more or less to save themselves from lawsuits (i.e., "I came in 20 minutes early to work everyday and they never paid me for it!"), etc. I was lucky enough to receive a simple coaching when I mistakenly did something considered to be working off the clock. Every day our AP takes a walk around the outside of the building to check for vandalism. One day I was in on my day off shopping, and walked around the building with AP while chatting. I didn't think anything of it. I was warned by my ETL that this was considered working off the clock and was a terminable offense... but they knew I had no idea it would be (and I bet they knew I could argue it pretty easily since I have every right to walk around the outside of the building like a million guests do...) so they just coached me on it first. They did tell me the next step would be a final warning if not termination.

 

[flonomo]

Yeah how many years did I circle the building, let people in and even wait at the door before I could punch in myself for a late tm before they finally said every srtl and myself, flow tl keyholder was supposed to do punch corrections for that time. Target owes me quite a bit for that, not counting all the breaks I never got.

 

[stupid rules]

Yeah how many years did I circle the building, let people in and even wait at the door before I could punch in myself for a late tm before they finally said every srtl and myself, flow tl keyholder was supposed to do punch corrections for that time. Target owes me quite a bit for that, not counting all the breaks I never got.

I am in the same boat, I wish I could lump it all together and get a nice 3-4 year check from this.

 

[TargetOldTimer]

Very common occurrence at my store for my tl to work off clock and to take home work. Its well known by everyone, but they would rather look the other way than spend an extra hour of payroll.

 

[StateofTarget]

Target really is insaneeeely serious about working off the clock. It's more or less to save themselves from lawsuits (i.e., "I came in 20 minutes early to work everyday and they never paid me for it!"), etc. I was lucky enough to receive a simple coaching when I mistakenly did something considered to be working off the clock. Every day our AP takes a walk around the outside of the building to check for vandalism. One day I was in on my day off shopping, and walked around the building with AP while chatting. I didn't think anything of it. I was warned by my ETL that this was considered working off the clock and was a terminable offense... but they knew I had no idea it would be (and I bet they knew I could argue it pretty easily since I have every right to walk around the outside of the building like a million guests do...) so they just coached me on it first. They did tell me the next step would be a final warning if not termination.

What happened here was that your ETL-AP was not happy with you walking with him. (even if he acted like he didn't care) He is probably a two faced back stabber, and didn't want you to know he didn't actually like you talking to him. Otherwise he would have told you not to do it the moment you started doing it. This is not surprising, because it is suggested to AP (anyone in AP, actually) that they "befriend" TMs, even if they actually despise TMs. That way TMs are more likely to tell them something they otherwise might not know about. In my years at Target, I have seen *lots* of AP totally bull sh** TMs into thinking they were buddies.

FYI - them telling you it was working off the clock is BS. Walking around talking with a TM/TL/ETL about personal things while they are working and you are off is *not* working off the clock. The *only* exception to this might be if you were talking about work.

 

[StateofTarget]

Indeed, Sr. TLs are required to fill out a punch correction for the time they work after punching out on their closing shifts. It's not just letting the team out and locking the door--they also have to drive a lap around the perimeter of the store to make sure there's nothing suspicious before they leave the store unattended for the next 5-7 hours.

Wow... I have never seen any ETL/SrTL do something that stupid.

At the store I used to work at, the back of the entire building was up against a fence to a neighborhood. Basically there was a little over a car length of distance between the back of the building and the fence.

At the store I worked at, let's say an ETL/SrTL pulled around to the back of the building and encountered two guys waiting back there to rob the place. Guess what? That SrTL/ETL would literally be pulling right up on them because of the limited space. Guess what? That SrTL/ETL is probably going to get shot in the head.... There is no way the ETL/SrTL would be able to get away (it would be impossible to turn around with the space available). It pretty much would be a death trap.

Even at stores that are not setup that way, if an ETL/SrTL were to see some robbers, guess what? That means those robbers probably see them. Do you think they are just going to wait around while the ETL/SrTL calls the cops on them? No, they are probably going to try to shoot the SrTl/ETL....

 

[babytrees]

Yeah theres no issue with waiting for everyone to leave together Im just saying using the no-working-off-the-clock logic, the time we all spend waiting to be let out should be paid

my TL's both say if they make you wait for everybody to leave (we have one that does) than don't clock out until you get the all clear. That is an extra hour, at least, every night that our store is paying out when that ETL is the closing LOD.

 

[ptl]

Wow... I have never seen any ETL/SrTL do something that stupid.

At the store I used to work at, the back of the entire building was up against a fence to a neighborhood. Basically there was a little over a car length of distance between the back of the building and the fence.

At the store I worked at, let's say an ETL/SrTL pulled around to the back of the building and encountered two guys waiting back there to rob the place. Guess what? That SrTL/ETL would literally be pulling right up on them because of the limited space. Guess what? That SrTL/ETL is probably going to get shot in the head.... There is no way the ETL/SrTL would be able to get away (it would be impossible to turn around with the space available). It pretty much would be a death trap.

Even at stores that are not setup that way, if an ETL/SrTL were to see some robbers, guess what? That means those robbers probably see them. Do you think they are just going to wait around while the ETL/SrTL calls the cops on them? No, they are probably going to try to shoot the SrTl/ETL....

Uh, okay? Good for you, I guess? That what you were looking for?

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

my TL's both say if they make you wait for everybody to leave (we have one that does) than don't clock out until you get the all clear. That is an extra hour, at least, every night that our store is paying out when that ETL is the closing LOD.

Take the $$$$.

 

[StateofTarget]

Uh, okay? Good for you, I guess? That what you were looking for?

No, just pointing out the fact it is incredibly stupid for an ETL to circle the store by themselves in hopes of finding robbers intending to rob the place. I spent years at Target and never saw any ETL do this, so I doubt it even happens. Not saying that there are not a few stores stupid enough to allow this, but I hope protecting Targets property is worth their life. I'm sure if an ETL did run in to some criminals they would just sit around and wait for the ETL to call the cops.... I'm sure they wouldn't do anything to stop that ETL....

Maybe it is because my store was in the ghetto in a part of the country with the highest murder rate. If I was an ETL and was told to do that, I would just bull sh** and say I did. Hell no would I go looking for robbers in the middle of the night by myself.

My store was so high risk our ETL-AP told me one time we were an "AP exception store". Basically our store was so high risk, Target didn't even have a high enough AP category for it. We had *two* SR TPS's on duty at all times, (actually had 5 SR TPS's on the payroll), 3 APS's on the payroll - at least one on duty at all times, and an ETL-AP. Basically the cops were at our store at least 5 times a week.

We also got all of the latest AP stuff before most of the company. For example, we were using spider wraps at least 3 years before they rolled out to most of the company.

 

[ptl]

No, just pointing out the fact it is incredibly stupid for an ETL to circle the store by themselves in hopes of finding robbers intending to rob the place. I spent years at Target and never saw any ETL do this, so I doubt it even happens. Not saying that there are not a few stores stupid enough to allow this, but I hope protecting Targets property is worth their life. I'm sure if an ETL did run in to some criminals they would just sit around and wait for the ETL to call the cops.... I'm sure they wouldn't do anything to stop that ETL....

Maybe it is because my store was in the ghetto in a part of the country with the highest murder rate. If I was an ETL and was told to do that, I would just bull sh** and say I did. Hell no would I go looking for robbers in the middle of the night by myself.

My store was so high risk our ETL-AP told me one time we were an "AP exception store". Basically our store was so high risk, Target didn't even have a high enough AP category for it. We had *two* SR TPS's on duty at all times, (actually had 5 SR TPS's on the payroll), 3 APS's on the payroll - at least one on duty at all times, and an ETL-AP. Basically the cops were at our store at least 5 times a week.

We also got all of the latest AP stuff before most of the company. For example, we were using spider wraps at least 3 years before they rolled out to most of the company.

It's not a thing that a store "allows." It's flat-out required. They aren't driving around looking for robbers to stop. They don't have a Target-issued mask and cape and Batarang. They're just looking for ANYTHING out of the ordinary--be it something they need to have the SFT or cart attendant take care of in the morning, or something they need to go back and take care of (for example, the rolldown gate outside our trailer dock being left open), or something that requires calling the police right away, or whatever.

The opening ETL or key-carrier has to do a drive-around as well, by the way.

This is not unusual. You are wrong in thinking that it is. Not all stores are in the ultra-violent ghetto that you seem to be living in. In fact almost none are.