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Flow TL a promotion?

Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
11
Ive been a Salesfloor TL for a month or two now and was just offered the suddenly and unexpectedly available Flow TL position, my STL seems very excited for me and I would like to think my leadership team wants me for that position because of my skill set is strong to lead a team, on the salesfloor as most of you well know there is very little team to lead.

I always read this board daily and respect your opinions, even the outlandish ones lol, so what do you guys think, is taking the Flow TL position a promotion from salesfloor tl and what are the repercussions of saying no to something my STL is clearly excited about, plus they had permission to move me from my new TL position from the district so does that reflect badly id I say no? Thanks again TBR!
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
34
It is considered a promotion, I pretty sure you dont have to interview ether. It hard but can be very rewarding. (message me if you have questions I just got this promotion.)
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
825
Flow TL is only a promotion over other TLs if you are a key carrying flow TL with an alarm code. If you don't have a key - it is not a promotion.

If you get a key, you will have authority over other TLs *only* when two conditions are met. 1. The building must be closed. 2. There can not be any Sr TL or ETL in the building. The moment one comes in the building, you no longer have authority over another TL.

Essentially when those two conditions are met, you become the LOD. (this is the only time a regular TL becomes an LOD) If a TL doesn't listen to you, they can actually be written up for insubordination just as if they were not listening to an ETL. A planogram TL at my store a few years ago who always worked with her team when the store was closed found this out the hard way.....
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
11
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  • #4
It is considered a promotion, I pretty sure you dont have to interview ether. It hard but can be very rewarding. (message me if you have questions I just got this promotion.)
Yes it is key carrying shift in a ULV store, no interview either it was simply offered. I will message you thank you very much for the offer of your knowledge.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2011
Messages
30,565
Hmmm, since they took shift dif almost away & you get $2 more for having a key. No night life & greater stress for success, I am not sure, it would be good one? Questions need to be asked, how good is the etl log or flow team? How often do you push the truck to help the flow team out? Will you have time to do all the paperwork? Do you get support from your etl staff on coaching decisions? Will you be judged by the being green numbers?
Consider this first, before you say yes.
 

Rock Lobster

Executive Team Leader
Joined
Jun 11, 2011
Messages
1,428
If they want you to do it, its best to just take it :)

In all honesty, I don't consider any TL spot better than the other, they all come with different stresses and rewards that make them unique! I would say if you have never worked logistics, it will be a great learning experience in managing talent and solving problems/managing execution :)
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2011
Messages
72
I would have given anything to move to a SL TL position. Flow is a burn out job. No one wants it and once you have it you are stuck there depending upon the situation. I'm not the only one that had this happen to them. Think about what Hardlines Master said. I never got used to the hours, never got enough sleep, never got the support of the ETL's. I did reviews, coachings and paperwork at home before we gave up our jump drives. I never took breaks only lunches. I know my replacement is doing the same. I never had enough time for paperwork, my business walks were a joke. Never enough hours for 2700 piece trucks. I was ready to take a pay cut. Run away.......
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
825
I would have given anything to move to a SL TL position. Flow is a burn out job. No one wants it and once you have it you are stuck there depending upon the situation. I'm not the only one that had this happen to them. Think about what Hardlines Master said. I never got used to the hours, never got enough sleep, never got the support of the ETL's. I did reviews, coachings and paperwork at home before we gave up our jump drives. I never took breaks only lunches. I know my replacement is doing the same. I never had enough time for paperwork, my business walks were a joke. Never enough hours for 2700 piece trucks. I was ready to take a pay cut. Run away.......
IMO it is totally worth it for the key/alarm code. Pretty much you get the respect of being an ETL without actually being an ETL. (Most TMs and even some TLs don't know a flow TL is just a TL)
 
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
698
I think it is the hardest team lead bar none,if it turns out you are great at it,as said above you will never get out of it,if you are not so good you will be out of Target within a short time,in the past there was always a chance of getting a promotion to etl out of it but that is no longer the case,so what is the upside for you if you take it?$2 per hour for being a key carrier,seems like a lot but for the load you have to accept it is not enough,dealing with your etl and every other etl,and then there is the flow team,and a good flow team is hard to find.It depends on you,how strong are you?.
As you are so new to team lead,you obviously have great enthusiasm and at Target this often gets mistaken for great ability.I have to advise you to turn it down,your life will change greatly for Target and I see little benefit for you.If you need an excuse for turning it down you can always say your family circumstances will not let it work for you and thank them for the opportunity.Good luck with your decision whatever way it goes.
 
Joined
Jun 12, 2011
Messages
1,003
I must be the odd man out, I love flow! You have a team to lead. You will really learn how to lead a very diverse group of people.It is easier to find someone to develop into a promotional opportunity. You have solid goals, some are harder to achieve than others. It is physical and you will be whipped into shape. On the other side...You will be blamed for everything that goes wrong in the store! Anytime they find an outdate, flow did it. Stocking issue, flow did it. Payroll overspent, flow did it. Broken cart, flow did it. If you have call ins, and you will, it is hard to replace. You will learn how to really do the most with the least. But when you are successful, it is sweet.
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
825
I think it is the hardest team lead bar none,if it turns out you are great at it,as said above you will never get out of it,if you are not so good you will be out of Target within a short time,in the past there was always a chance of getting a promotion to etl out of it but that is no longer the case,so what is the upside for you if you take it?$2 per hour for being a key carrier,seems like a lot but for the load you have to accept it is not enough,dealing with your etl and every other etl,and then there is the flow team,and a good flow team is hard to find.It depends on you,how strong are you?.
As you are so new to team lead,you obviously have great enthusiasm and at Target this often gets mistaken for great ability.I have to advise you to turn it down,your life will change greatly for Target and I see little benefit for you.If you need an excuse for turning it down you can always say your family circumstances will not let it work for you and thank them for the opportunity.Good luck with your decision whatever way it goes.
He has a great chance of making Sr TL. Most Sr TLs have some kind of background in logistics. Generally if you can handle the flow TL position it is a good sign you have what it takes to promote to Sr TL. Not only are you leading one of the hardest processes, you also demonstrate you are responsible enough to handle being LOD, have a key, and an alarm code.
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
579
I was a flow tl for a while in an overnight store and a 4a.m. store. I was a sales floor tl in hard lines for a while. I lost money giving up the key and of course shift diff. I went from leading 15-25 nightly (sometimes up to 30-40? in 4th qtr) to being the single person on the sales floor all day long. etc. etc I hate, absolutely hate, the sales floor and all the god damn idiotic guests. The useless specialty teams, the lazy ass front end are wasted payroll. The rere's we have for team members on the sales floor are no better than cardboard cutouts. The etl's...omg I'm not even starting on them, there's not enough time. I can't even describe how bad I hate the sales floor and the lack of a team/hours/equipment/tools/etc. but still having to get it all done. With that said there is no way in hell I would go back to being a flow tl.
 
Joined
Sep 23, 2011
Messages
287
I was a flow tl for a while in an overnight store and a 4a.m. store. I was a sales floor tl in hard lines for a while. I lost money giving up the key and of course shift diff. I went from leading 15-25 nightly (sometimes up to 30-40? in 4th qtr) to being the single person on the sales floor all day long. etc. etc I hate, absolutely hate, the sales floor and all the god damn idiotic guests. The useless specialty teams, the lazy ass front end are wasted payroll. The rere's we have for team members on the sales floor are no better than cardboard cutouts. The etl's...omg I'm not even starting on them, there's not enough time. I can't even describe how bad I hate the sales floor and the lack of a team/hours/equipment/tools/etc. but still having to get it all done. With that said there is no way in hell I would go back to being a flow tl.
Yeah, those idiotic guests that buy stuff and allow you to have your job. Those dumb salesfloor TMs who fix all the messed up endcaps that flow ignored b/c they only know to fill the home, or the endless overstock they have to bring back b/c the flow team doesn't understand the word "capacity". Damned cashiers working 3 hour shifts because that awesome flow team is constantly using more hours than they should, hurting every other part of the store as a result. That fantastic flow team that sets all the POGs and sets up/takes down all the signing.

Wait... no... this is the real world. Flow accounts for 90% of the problems in most stores, get real.
 
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
698
I think that reading everything that has been said above you get a good picture of what being a flow tl is,no doubt that it can give a great sense of achievement when you get things done,but unlike other positions there is no hiding place,you are evaluated with every single truck and you are only as good as how you managed todays truck.We are lucky our flow tl has been in place for years and is excellent,our closest similar store is going through flow tls at the rate of 2/3 per year and this is not helped by the fact that they are going through a similar number of newly recruited logistic etls.We all wish you well and are interested in what you decide,good luck.
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
579
Yeah, those idiotic guests that buy stuff and allow you to have your job. Those dumb salesfloor TMs who fix all the messed up endcaps that flow ignored b/c they only know to fill the home, or the endless overstock they have to bring back b/c the flow team doesn't understand the word "capacity". Damned cashiers working 3 hour shifts because that awesome flow team is constantly using more hours than they should, hurting every other part of the store as a result. That fantastic flow team that sets all the POGs and sets up/takes down all the signing.

Wait... no... this is the real world. Flow accounts for 90% of the problems in most stores, get real.
Maybe I was trying to convey just how bad the flow tl position is by speaking down about the comparison and then stating how I wouldn't pick flow if I was him. Could that be a possibility? ****ing moron
 
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
11
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
So after much consultation with my peers, mentor and of course your invaluable input I decided to not take the offer. I realize this may "stunt" my career in the worst case scenario but that will just have to make me shine and work HARDER to show that turning down the offer was actually more courageous than taking it on. It really came down to one question in the end "do I love what I do" and currently that answer is absolutely yes. I love the guest interaction, I love meeting new team members, holding huddles, managing my time and developing team members in different work centers, I love the dynamics of the floor, never the same day twice, and I didnt want to lose face time with the team, management and district. Thanks again TBR for all your input. Yes I do read every single thread its a really nice resource to have!
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
825
So after much consultation with my peers, mentor and of course your invaluable input I decided to not take the offer. I realize this may "stunt" my career in the worst case scenario but that will just have to make me shine and work HARDER to show that turning down the offer was actually more courageous than taking it on. It really came down to one question in the end "do I love what I do" and currently that answer is absolutely yes. I love the guest interaction, I love meeting new team members, holding huddles, managing my time and developing team members in different work centers, I love the dynamics of the floor, never the same day twice, and I didnt want to lose face time with the team, management and district. Thanks again TBR for all your input. Yes I do read every single thread its a really nice resource to have!
Turning down something like this is pretty much a career ending move. The next place for you to go as a TL would be Sr TL. You just turned down a job that required more responsibility, a key, and an alarm code. In other words, you turned down a job that was slightly less challenging than Sr TL. It is highly unlikely they will promote you to Sr TL after this. Well, at least until your STL and most ETLs cycle out of your store and this is forgotten anyway.

When I was an electronics TL I had an electronics specialist who was on the fast track for TL. ETLs were always telling me to prep him for a TL role, and to give them regular updates on his development. Eventually they wanted to move him to MMB specialist - he turned it down because (obviously) it was more of a challenge. He was immediately dropped from anymore talks of TL promotion. In fact, about a week after he turned it down I went to our ETL-HL to give him a status update on what else I was doing to prep him for TL. He flat out told me "He just turned down MMB spec. You don't need to keep trying to prep him for TL anymore. It's not going to happen."

Moral of the story - Turning down a job that requires more responsibility is a guarantee they are not going to offer you a job that requires even more responsibility than the one they first offered you.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2011
Messages
30,565
So after much consultation with my peers, mentor and of course your invaluable input I decided to not take the offer. I realize this may "stunt" my career in the worst case scenario but that will just have to make me shine and work HARDER to show that turning down the offer was actually more courageous than taking it on. It really came down to one question in the end "do I love what I do" and currently that answer is absolutely yes. I love the guest interaction, I love meeting new team members, holding huddles, managing my time and developing team members in different work centers, I love the dynamics of the floor, never the same day twice, and I didnt want to lose face time with the team, management and district. Thanks again TBR for all your input. Yes I do read every single thread its a really nice resource to have!
You have life outside of spot like family, etc. are you certified on everything? Don't give on promotion yet. You can still go for srtl's opps, just keep knocking your etl's off their feet with green scores & Great leadership skills.
 

buliSBI

Former Team Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
3,408
They are giving you some added responsibility as a key carrier. So take it.

However, a lot of stores (especially the LV stores) love to rotate their TL staff around so all their TLs are experienced in all areas. In the situation of a TL leaving the store, a TL with previous experience in that area (ex. Flow) can handle the responsibility until someone is hired to fill that or the other position.

I had a FATL that was moved to GSTL/FATL and then moved to Flow. Then a GSTL was moved to Softlines TL to Hardlines then to Pharmacy then back to GSTL then to FATL.
 
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
698
Keep working as you are,if you are good enough your refusal will be soon forgotten,and it does take courage to make the right decision for you and your family,as for promotion as you are so new I do not think you should be concerned about it for a while,continue working with your sales floor team,from your posts I think that you can make things a little better for them and that is a massive positive.
 
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
11
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #21
Career ending? Doubt it. Ive been sales floor team leader for less than two month, Ive been with Target for 18 months, I was a store manager of a mid-sized grocery store for 3 years and been in retail for 15 years as management.
This isnt about "challenge" they obviously felt I was able to handle the challenge when they chose me over other team leaders first, even consulting with the DTL. This for me was about what best suits "me" too. There is a right time and place for every change, they were forced into changing flow team leads because the person gave two weeks, now was not the right time for me to take on that particular role.
I feel strongly I made the right decision but I respect and thank you for your opinion.

Turning down something like this is pretty much a career ending move. The next place for you to go as a TL would be Sr TL. You just turned down a job that required more responsibility, a key, and an alarm code. In other words, you turned down a job that was slightly less challenging than Sr TL. It is highly unlikely they will promote you to Sr TL after this. Well, at least until your STL and most ETLs cycle out of your store and this is forgotten anyway.

When I was an electronics TL I had an electronics specialist who was on the fast track for TL. ETLs were always telling me to prep him for a TL role, and to give them regular updates on his development. Eventually they wanted to move him to MMB specialist - he turned it down because (obviously) it was more of a challenge. He was immediately dropped from anymore talks of TL promotion. In fact, about a week after he turned it down I went to our ETL-HL to give him a status update on what else I was doing to prep him for TL. He flat out told me "He just turned down MMB spec. You don't need to keep trying to prep him for TL anymore. It's not going to happen."

Moral of the story - Turning down a job that requires more responsibility is a guarantee they are not going to offer you a job that requires even more responsibility than the one they first offered you.
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
825
Career ending? Doubt it. Ive been sales floor team leader for less than two month, Ive been with Target for 18 months, I was a store manager of a mid-sized grocery store for 3 years and been in retail for 15 years as management.
This isnt about "challenge" they obviously felt I was able to handle the challenge when they chose me over other team leaders first, even consulting with the DTL. This for me was about what best suits "me" too. There is a right time and place for every change, they were forced into changing flow team leads because the person gave two weeks, now was not the right time for me to take on that particular role.
I feel strongly I made the right decision but I respect and thank you for your opinion.
That entitlement attitude of yours is not going to be well received. Target owes you nothing because of prior management at another retailer. The fact is you turned down a job because you felt it would be too difficult to handle - you can tell your ETLs a different line, but they all know what the real deal is. You can run around all day telling your ETLs you are capable of more from this point while you are setting end caps, working stray and the zone with TMs, and calling for a key carrier (possibly your flow TL) to get your equipment for you. The fact is, the TL that gets the flow position now will be *showing* them he can handle leading a large team on his own, a key, and an alarm code. You understand the difference between showing and telling, right? Showing is much more impressive.

The fact is, the TL who gets flow now (assuming he does well) is going to be a top candidate for Sr TL.
 
Joined
Sep 23, 2011
Messages
287
Maybe I was trying to convey just how bad the flow tl position is by speaking down about the comparison and then stating how I wouldn't pick flow if I was him. Could that be a possibility? ****ing moron
But the flow TL position isn't bad if you can handle it, so...

But keeping throwing around names, makes you look really smart.
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
825
Maybe I was trying to convey just how bad the flow tl position is by speaking down about the comparison and then stating how I wouldn't pick flow if I was him. Could that be a possibility? ****ing moron
Must suck seeing people handle those tough positions and advance over you, huh? Usually the bitter people like you are the ones working carts for 10 years telling everyone TL positions suck while the TLs make bank compared to you. Who is the moron now?
 
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
698
what is the lifespan of a flow team leader,in my store it is 4 yrs plus and going strong,at our nearby store they seem to be always looking for a new one and the turnover is big,how is it in your stores?and my last word on this,
FoodDude,I bet you get offered the job again within 6 months,only next time you will be asked to do it for the good of the store and for a limited time ,and you may well receive some of those wonderful Target verbal promises,you better watch out....
 
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