Archived How do you achieve progress with unsupportive and self-destructive leadership?

[RomeoDelta]

TL/DR at bottom.

As a POG TL, I own the fixture room. It is no secret that in a lot of stores, the fixture room can be a cluttered place. People often leave carts, two tiers, and reds sitting in my fixture room with trash, signing, and fixtures. My goal for 2015 is to clean and organize my fixture room and keep it that way. I've made this clear to my ETL LOG, and I've already started taking steps to achieve my goal. However, the one thing that continues to be an issue is people leaving vehicles with their stuff in it for my team and I to take care of (as if we have any more time than they do to deal with it).

I recently attended a dayside huddle where a couple ETLs, as well as the STL, was present and announced that vehicles are no longer allowed in (or outside of) the fixture room. I also asked that everyone put away their signing and fixtures. The next day there were two carts in the fixture room, one with trash and another with signing. One of my team members pushed them outside, and I eventually put signs on them asking for the contents to be put away and to not leave vehicles in the fixture room. Before leaving for the day, I went back to the fixture room and the carts were pushed back in there, signs gone. I set out to find who did it.

Eventually I was pointed to one of the ETLs. I asked if she did it, and she informed me that the ETL LOG did it. This made me pretty upset since I spoke with him about this issue specifically. I told the ETL I was speaking with at the time that I had put signs on those carts explicitly stating not to do that. She told me the signs (which read: Please put the contents of this cart away - Do not leave vehicles in the fixture room) were snotty, and to stop putting signs up. I told her that I put the signs up to communicate with the team while I'm not there (dayside, closing). She told me to talk to my team and have them talk to other team members they see leaving things back there. I mentioned that my team leaves when I leave, and therefore no one is communicating anything to the dayside/closing team without signs.

At this point I decided to walk away because I was making no progress, and instead started to write an email to all leadership in the building addressing my goal for the fixture room for 2015, the issue at hand, and my solutions. Before I sent the email, I asked HR for their opinion (on the issue and my email), and they told me to save the email and come back to it tomorrow, and to learn to pick my battles.

So my question now is: How do you achieve progress with unsupportive and self-destructive leadership? I own the fixture room, but I'm not getting the support I need to maintain it, and am actually being fought against on it with my ETL as it has been made apparent. I'm close to the point of just not caring anymore, but I became a TL to own my work center, not disown it.

TL/DR: Want to keep fixture room clean, ETL staff doesn't care. What do?

 

[Lovejones757]

It's a hard battle to fight. I've see that battle more than enough to know that it's not one worth fighting. I wish I had a solution for you but I've seen it play out the same way everytime. There will always be someone that just doesn't want to do the "right" thing the "right" way. I've noticed that that someone is usually an ETL. Now don't get me wrong, there are some really great ETL's out there that will fight the fixture room battle with you but they are few and far between. I wish you good luck. If at some point you get the support you need, let me know. Maybe I can get pass on some tips.

 

[commiecorvus]

I went through that.
Start showing up at every huddle with a shopping cart of assorted crap and calmly explain that this shouldn't be happening.
Now you and everyone at the huddle knows it the other crew that is responsible but what will happen is the ETLs in charge of the huddle will get real tired of listening to it.
They will start talking to the other ETLs eventually.
If anything happens that even smack of a safety problem, leaning shelves against the wall or shelves in the carts, talk to the safety captain.
They might not let you put signs on the carts but you own the fixture room.
Make some very professional looking signs in Word (laminate them if can) and put them up in the fixture room.
Since you have to clean out the carts keep track of how much time you spend doing it and at the end of the week give that time your PTL ...

Wait, you are the PTL.
I'm used to giving this advice to the Signing Ninja since they are the ones who usually get stuck owning the room and get no respect.

You can do what many of the bad PTLs do, just hand it to the Signing Ninja and say handle it.
But it sounds like you're not that kind of person, thank you for that.
Keep those emails going.
Set aside a day or two to get the fixture room spotless and then dare anyone to mess it up.
It's easy to just throw things on top of a mess, not so much if it's perfect.

 

[tgtguy]

Well, to start with by your post you seem to be committed to your team and job. Which, sadly is something lacking in most leadership roles. Leaving notes on tubs, carts, etc seems to be a sore subject at my store as well. I once put a note on a their tiered cart in the freezer( evening backroom team member will not push his cooler/freezer pulls, so after having to go behind him and do this over and over...I got fed up) the note simply said, please push what you pull. thank you. Well, the next day, my team lead asked me if I had left the note I told him yes, I have came to you with the issue and its still happening. I was then told to take the note down and not to leave another one like that. I was then told that he ( the tl) would address the issue with the person that afternoon. Well, that was three months ago...and nothing has changed...he goes in the freezer pulls the items and throws them on the floor etc. I just stopped saying anything about it...I pick it up and push it with my pulls...and if I am off...it just sits there till I go back to work. So, I do see where you are coming from. My only advice would me to make sure you have something in writing ie, a email or something that shows you have tried to get the etls on board with your plan for the fixture room. That way if the etls all turn on you, you at least have that proof. I wouldn't put much trust into what the Hr/etl says....she/he after all is a etl and they all tend to look out for each other ( wrong or right)

 

[Inigma]

Desparate times call for desperate measures!
1. Have smart huddles in the fixture room! or take two team members (or however needed) every day to clean the fixture for 15 minutes.
2. Lock the fixture room after you leave
3. ETL's not helping? Put the messy shopping cart in their office. See how they like that.

Just continue aggressive communication every day. Eventually everyone will get tired of it and do the right thing. Tell your ETL that your going to have to use sales floor hours to clean up someone else's carts if not cleaned.

Good luck! Keep us posted!

 

[RomeoDelta]

I went through that.
Start showing up at every huddle with a shopping cart of assorted crap and calmly explain that this shouldn't be happening.
Now you and everyone at the huddle knows it the other crew that is responsible but what will happen is the ETLs in charge of the huddle will get real tired of listening to it.
They will start talking to the other ETLs eventually.
If anything happens that even smack of a safety problem, leaning shelves against the wall or shelves in the carts, talk to the safety captain.
They might not let you put signs on the carts but you own the fixture room.
Make some very professional looking signs in Word (laminate them if can) and put them up in the fixture room.
Since you have to clean out the carts keep track of how much time you spend doing it and at the end of the week give that time your PTL ...

Wait, you are the PTL.
I'm used to giving this advice to the Signing Ninja since they are the ones who usually get stuck owning the room and get no respect.

You can do what many of the bad PTLs do, just hand it to the Signing Ninja and say handle it.
But it sounds like you're not that kind of person, thank you for that.
Keep those emails going.
Set aside a day or two to get the fixture room spotless and then dare anyone to mess it up.
It's easy to just throw things on top of a mess, not so much if it's perfect.

I did the cart thing when I was in the backroom. I would bring carts of trash or H&B backstock (our primary backroom and H&B stockroom are on opposite sides of the store) and show the team that this was wrong, and told them how to fix it. It worked sometimes. The safety concerns in my fixture room were (and to an extent, still are) pretty substantial. See pic below of what our softlines side was like for a year or so before I became PTL. I would always hear cursing and crashing around whenever someone from softlines went back there. Signing ninja usually cleans the fixture room on his own, which I'm grateful for, but a) I don't want him spending that much time on it after days/weeks of built up clutter and b) I don't want him to do it alone. He has better things to do.

Well, to start with by your post you seem to be committed to your team and job. Which, sadly is something lacking in most leadership roles. Leaving notes on tubs, carts, etc seems to be a sore subject at my store as well. I once put a note on a their tiered cart in the freezer( evening backroom team member will not push his cooler/freezer pulls, so after having to go behind him and do this over and over...I got fed up) the note simply said, please push what you pull. thank you. Well, the next day, my team lead asked me if I had left the note I told him yes, I have came to you with the issue and its still happening. I was then told to take the note down and not to leave another one like that. I was then told that he ( the tl) would address the issue with the person that afternoon. Well, that was three months ago...and nothing has changed...he goes in the freezer pulls the items and throws them on the floor etc. I just stopped saying anything about it...I pick it up and push it with my pulls...and if I am off...it just sits there till I go back to work. So, I do see where you are coming from. My only advice would me to make sure you have something in writing ie, a email or something that shows you have tried to get the etls on board with your plan for the fixture room. That way if the etls all turn on you, you at least have that proof. I wouldn't put much trust into what the Hr/etl says....she/he after all is a etl and they all tend to look out for each other ( wrong or right)

It wasn't the ETL HR I spoke to, just regular HR. Before becoming PTL, my ETL LOG told me that if you don't address an issue, nothing will change. Here's me addressing the issue, and here's him ensuring nothing will change lol.

Desparate times call for desperate measures!
1. Have smart huddles in the fixture room! or take two team members (or however needed) every day to clean the fixture for 15 minutes.
2. Lock the fixture room after you leave
3. ETL's not helping? Put the messy shopping cart in their office. See how they like that.

Just continue aggressive communication every day. Eventually everyone will get tired of it and do the right thing. Tell your ETL that your going to have to use sales floor hours to clean up someone else's carts if not cleaned.

Good luck! Keep us posted!

Been with Target for about 2.5 years now and I'm not quite sure what a smart huddle is? And I've been wanting to lock the fixture room, but our signing computer is in there, and people need to use it throughout the day. I was going to lock one of the doors so vehicles couldn't make their way in, but one ETL flat out told me no (without any reasons), and my ETL LOG told me that it's not worth it because people will just leave their vehicles outside the door. If this is the case, then those people need to be held accountable and coached. I'm going to bring this up with the STL after Christmas. And I can't put the carts in their offices because their offices are upstairs lol.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

 

[commiecorvus]

That's really bad.
You need to talk to your Safety Captain before someone gets seriously hurt and your store goes red.
I don't know who the captain is in your store but it's usually the AP-ETL.
That might get you some support.

 

[qmosqueen]

it's a backroom area where things are stored, what do you expect miracles. You have to get your own team to keep it clean and make it part of your teams job to keep it clean. Us PAs have to keep out coolers clean, backroom leaves the metros a mess and toss empty boxes everywhere in my dairy cooler. No complaints from me just dig in and clewan up. We also have to mop the coolers.

 

[RomeoDelta]

That's really bad.
You need to talk to your Safety Captain before someone gets seriously hurt and your store goes red.
I don't know who the captain is in your store but it's usually the AP-ETL.
That might get you some support.

Again, been with Spot for 2.5 years and never knew we had a "safety captain" (though I've heard the term used humorously). Our AP-ETL is pretty new, but he's been around a few times I've brought these issues up with others. I'll follow up with him in a 1 on 1 to see if I can get him on board.

it's a backroom area where things are stored, what do you expect miracles. You have to get your own team to keep it clean and make it part of your teams job to keep it clean. Us PAs have to keep out coolers clean, backroom leaves the metros a mess and toss empty boxes everywhere in my dairy cooler. No complaints from me just dig in and clewan up. We also have to mop the coolers.

No, I expect people to be responsible and clean up after themselves. My team cleans up after themselves, they don't need to clean up after the rest of the store too. I'm not going to settle just because "that's how it is."

 

[oath2order]

it's a backroom area where things are stored, what do you expect miracles. You have to get your own team to keep it clean and make it part of your teams job to keep it clean. Us PAs have to keep out coolers clean, backroom leaves the metros a mess and toss empty boxes everywhere in my dairy cooler. No complaints from me just dig in and clewan up. We also have to mop the coolers.

For most people, it's putting away a single cart of things. It is not that hard to ask for people to put a few things away when they're done with them.

My fixture room got cleaned recently. Finally.

 

[commiecorvus]

After my store had one person hospitalized for falling boxes and another out for a permanent back injury we went to red for a year.
This kept us from being a golden store even though we were crushing it in every other category.
There would be snap inspections to make sure people were handling things correctly and there weren't any safety hazards.
If your safety captain would rather not be pulled away from his real job on a regular basis for that kind of stuff he'll want to help you out.

 

[Adigator]

In this case, I agree with your HR, choose your battles. The ETLs want to know you are supporting the overall store goals, and if cleaning the fixture room isn’t one of them (at least for right now), being aggressive about it and calling out people in front of the team who aren’t supporting your goal isn’t going to help. I would sit with your ETL-LOG one on one and talk about your concerns. Calmly let him know you’re following his advice about not addressing an issue ensures nothing will change, that you’re worried someone will get seriously hurt in the fixture room, and you want to address this issue but feel it’s not being supported (mention the carts he left behind). Then ask what he would like you to do. I would talk to him before talking to the Safety Captain/ETL-AP. If he says it’s not an important priority for now, do what you can to maintain the fixture team with your team and let it go. If you know who isn’t putting their stuff away, talk to those people individually and privately. Try to get them to support you and see what you can do to support them. I went through the same thing, and it took 2 years to get the fixture room clean. Once the room was cleaned and everything had a place, it made it much harder for others to leave a mess.

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

Here is what one signing ninja did.

 

[RomeoDelta]

Here is what one signing ninja did.

Yeah, I was going to do this. I think I'll let the season blow over before I get any more aggressive. As long as the sign is on the inside of the door and in the fixture room, I don't think I'll worry about the anti-sign ETL

 

[Signkitty]

I spent a day making the fixture room safe not even a week later my ETL pushed tubs of shelves in....I was sitting right there dying inside.

 

[PugMuffin]

You don't.

That is why Target is failing.

 

[Kompa]

Isn't the fixture supposed to be locked at all times? It should be obvious whose doing what.

If not, then asking people to keep it clean is like asking salesfloor to backstock their caf pulls. it isn't gonna happen

 

[commiecorvus]

Isn't the fixture supposed to be locked at all times? It should be obvious whose doing what.

If not, then asking people to keep it clean is like asking salesfloor to backstock their caf pulls. it isn't gonna happen

Different stores, different rules.
I guess they tried the keep it locked rule at my store before I got there but since the signing computer is in there the ETLs got tired of having to constantly unlock it.
Nothing like that will work if the bosses feel too inconvenienced.

 

[Whenindoubtflexitout]

One thing I did to help this issue was move the sign and label PC up front to the TL office along with all the end cap signing and price change supplies. This enabled me to lock the fixture room. It also helped me keep it more organized, as a lot of the project carts come from those setting end caps. Since their signing went in the TL office, they had to put their cart away. People are less likely to leave a mess in an office ;-) Since I owned POG as the ETL-LOG, I really drove keeping it clean. If it was a mess, I had the team smart huddle and clean it up. If I found a mess left in there, I would watch the cameras and see who left it ;-)

 

[RedDog]

Does anybody remember when Target rolled a program that had you locate the stuff in the fixture room so it would come out in some pull? As far as I know not a single store went through with it. We put up the location lables to give the illusion that we were on board. Then like most Target programs the spend money rolling out nobody seemed to even remember it existed after a few months.

As for the OP. You tried, document it and move on. Going to war with your stores leadership over something they do not care about is doomed to fail. It is sad that at Target you can end up being pushed out just for doing what needs to be done. This is what the company has become. Leadership failures at every level.

 

[commiecorvus]

Does anybody remember when Target rolled a program that had you locate the stuff in the fixture room so it would come out in some pull? As far as I know not a single store went through with it. We put up the location lables to give the illusion that we were on board. Then like most Target programs the spend money rolling out nobody seemed to even remember it existed after a few months.

As for the OP. You tried, document it and move on. Going to war with your stores leadership over something they do not care about is doomed to fail. It is sad that at Target you can end up being pushed out just for doing what needs to be done. This is what the company has become. Leadership failures at every level.

How about the famous "you can't put a shelf on a shelf, they all have to be attached to the wall" dictum that came down.
We spent a good two weeks reorganization the fixture room and pallatizing for storage the shelves we couldn't put up.
From posts here it was pretty much ignored at most stores.
I wouldn't be surprised if my old store is doing it now.

 

[Retail Girl]

@RedDog is right. You might be right (ok, you are right). But if the leadership team doesn't care, you will lose. And you could eventually be pushed out for it. Many times in life, you can either be right, or you can be happy. This is one of those times. You need to decide here if this is really worth potentially losing your job over, because it's clear you don't have your leadership's support. And not having your leadership's support is a dangerous place to be in in Target.

 

[mrknownothing]

Does anybody remember when Target rolled a program that had you locate the stuff in the fixture room so it would come out in some pull? As far as I know not a single store went through with it. We put up the location lables to give the illusion that we were on board. Then like most Target programs the spend money rolling out nobody seemed to even remember it existed after a few months.

Lol locating fixtures. "LOD, can you go to channel 2?" "I'm on 2, go ahead." "Why are there peghooks on this domestics CAF?"

 

[PlanoBitch]

I have signs up all over my fixture room. When I became the POG TL and I had a chance to clean it out I put signs up on the doors saying "STOP this room has been cleaned out. Put everything in it's home." When the team wouldn't take apart their peg hooks I put a sign on those bins explaining how to properly put away the peghooks by taking the fastbacks off, label holders off, and detrashing them. When the team would take the hip printers and not plug them back in I put a sign on the cabinet saying "Plug your printer back in when you are done with it." When I find random stuff in the fixture room I call out the team on the walkie. If its Softlines shelves and pegs I call out the team - Softlines team I need someone to come to the fixture room and clean your tub/cart out. If nobody responds I call the TL. Same with Hardlines. I made it clear that I am not a maid and I will not clean up after anyone. I did tell the team if it keeps happening I am locking the door and nobody will get in there. Tough shit if you need to print something - or need equipment. I don't have the hours to spend to clean up after other people. For the most part it has stayed clean but if they start dumping again I will call a huddle back there and clean it as a group. My main problem right now is the endcap signing from AD sets and the pile of 72 hour hold stuff that I can't get rid of.

 

[PlanoBitch]

Since you have to clean out the carts keep track of how much time you spend doing it and at the end of the week give that time your PTL .

This! Keep track of how long you are cleaning the room each day. At the end of a week/month show your ETL how much payroll you are wasting cleaning up after everyone else.