Archived I love it when they fill a position that was never posted for people to apply for

[band_rules16]

One thing, though, is that I think the 4 year degree is a good screener for external people. I mean, honestly, as a TL it sickened me how many losers we hired at my store. People who NCNS all the time, come late, hide and you can't find them half the day, steal, come to work on drugs, etc. (our store being in the ghetto didn't help) I mean, can you imagine if one of them slipped through the cracks and was hired as an ETL? They could do a ton of damage. So really, I can see why Target does it just from an assets protection point of view. That doesn't even factor in everything else.

I live in a college town, so we get all the college kids who like to go and party on weekends (or any day in the summer). I've seen people come to work hungover or sometimes still intoxicated. My favorite is Sunday call-ins. A couple of them ARE trying for ETL (trying to finish up degrees and such) but I don't think it will happen for them...

I wish we had a better screening process for external TL candidates though...*sigh*

 

[Darikona]

Dude, do you know what overqualified means? I said OVERqualified not UNDERqualified. Huge difference between the two. You seem to be thinking I said underqualified.

Because she is OVERqualified - in other words, college degree with the qualifications to be a teacher - she has too many qualifications to be a GSA. It is a dime a dozen job and easily replaceable, just like you say, therefore she meets the definition of "overqualified".

The definition from dictionary.com "Overqualified. Adjective. having more education, training, or experience than is required for a job or position. " Sooooo since this person has a degree and is qualified to be a teacher, they thus meet the definition of overqualified in this situation.

A person can be either overqualified or underqualified for a job. If a person is underqualified it is like a high school drop out applying for ETL. They don't have the education required, therefore they are underqualified. On the flip side, a person with a masters degree in computer programming could apply for cart attendant. Obvious case of being overqualified for the job.

Employers don't want either situation because both are bad *for employers*. If you have someone under qualified, chances are they won't do the job well. If you have someone overqualified, they are going to split the moment a better job comes along, be bored in the job, upset coworkers who are are at the career level for the job, or any other number of problems are likely to come up *for the employer*.

And the worst part of all *from the eyes of Target*? Target wants people who follow orders without question. Statistically speaking, well educated people (and teachers in particular), are more likely to question the status quo. Remember being in school? All those teachers who asked "why is this societal situation not fair?". Target doesn't want that. A person with a high level education (in particular a teacher) in a low skilled job like GSA is apt to start "asking questions"... if you know what I mean. "Why are review scores decided by HQ?" "Why are we not letting cashiers get their hours?" etc. Target doesn't want that. They want someone who will follow orders and not question anything. Hate to say it, but a person with a high school diploma is much less likely to start trouble than a well educated person (with better job options... thus not as afraid to get fired.... should they decided to start asking questions). That's why GSA is a job for a high school grad, not a college grad that qualifies to be a teacher. In other words, she is OVERqualified for the job and therefore not an acceptable candidate in the eyes of Target.

No I know exactly what you said and that logic does not hold. Why even bother hiring the person as a team member if they're that qualified? Oh, they're just part time team members and they won't be noticed at all if they leave? Hmm, fairly strong rationality to hold. It doesn't take much stretching though when you extend it to the GSA position which is a part time position only with no real weight in management as far as Target is concerned.

Let me clarify though. the stress of the position is there. It still has no managerial power though. Even if they should leave there is at best a minor loss of effectiveness in cashier supervising. Sorry, I find the actual personal dislike from an ETL to have more weight in this situation rather than because the person actually has a degree and is overqualified.

/2cents

 

[StateofTarget]

No I know exactly what you said and that logic does not hold. Why even bother hiring the person as a team member if they're that qualified? Oh, they're just part time team members and they won't be noticed at all if they leave? Hmm, fairly strong rationality to hold. It doesn't take much stretching though when you extend it to the GSA position which is a part time position only with no real weight in management as far as Target is concerned.

Let me clarify though. the stress of the position is there. It still has no managerial power though. Even if they should leave there is at best a minor loss of effectiveness in cashier supervising. Sorry, I find the actual personal dislike from an ETL to have more weight in this situation rather than because the person actually has a degree and is overqualified.

/2cents

More than likely this person did *not* reveal her educational background when she was hired as a TM. Also, she was dealing with the ETL-HR which might have chosen to ignore it. Now she is dealing with the ETL-GE.

I was a TL for years, interviewed more potential TMs than I can count, and I know for a fact that if the ETL-HR finds out they have a bachelor or higher degree they will *not* want to hire them. I was told many times by my ETL-HR that she was not going to hire great candidates that I interviewed because they were overqualified due to the fact they had a degree. Does that mean every ETL will not consider someone overqualified? No, but many of them will. You are not a TL, never interviewed anyone, and honestly you don't know what goes on behind the scenes in the hiring process because it is confidential. Simple point here is that ETL-HRs are *extremely* hesitant to hire anyone with a degree for a TM job. Any TL here that has done interviews can attest to this fact. If you have someone apply for TM job, they have a bachelor/master degree, it is pretty much a deal breaker.

Hell, I remember one time my ETL-HR told this guy with a bachelor degree that applied for TM that she wasn't even going to do a 2nd interview and told him to go apply for an ETL position.

 

[band_rules16]

Was this something I was supposed to bring up in my first interview? Because I am pretty sure I put that I had just graduated from college on my application. And heck, I talk about my alma mater all the time, because it was a private college in a different town (as opposed to the public university here). Man, it could have really saved me five years of my life here! I'm pretty sure I couldn't have gone for ETL with my course load though. I started at minimum wage, as a cashier, with a bachelor's degree. No one say hooey to me.

I picked up a second job at a smaller women's clothing company last year (since hours were cut so bad) and the store manager never said anything about me being overqualified to work there as a part time associate. The district manager even asked me if I was interested in assistant manager after being there only a couple months. I turned that down, saying I was looking for teaching jobs.

 

[GlobalTL123]

Hmmm i dont know about that. We have a fitting room operator with a masters in finance, a tps and electronics tm with a bachelors degrees. Theres many tms on the flow team with degrees and they are retired. They use target as a part time job to get extra $$. Personally a degree doesnt mean anything to me. Just because a person goes to college and overpays for an education does not make them any smarter or better. At the end of the day it all comes down to work ethic I'd choose the hard working high school grad over the lazy worthless tm with a degree.

 

[StateofTarget]

Was this something I was supposed to bring up in my first interview? Because I am pretty sure I put that I had just graduated from college on my application. And heck, I talk about my alma mater all the time, because it was a private college in a different town (as opposed to the public university here). Man, it could have really saved me five years of my life here! I'm pretty sure I couldn't have gone for ETL with my course load though. I started at minimum wage, as a cashier, with a bachelor's degree. No one say hooey to me.

I picked up a second job at a smaller women's clothing company last year (since hours were cut so bad) and the store manager never said anything about me being overqualified to work there as a part time associate. The district manager even asked me if I was interested in assistant manager after being there only a couple months. I turned that down, saying I was looking for teaching jobs.

I think in your case it sounds like maybe you just don't want to advance. There is nothing special about any ETL in your building over you. They all came in, applied directly for ETL, and were hired directly for ETL. You could have done the same but chose not to. (and chose to turn down an assistant manager job someplace else) More than likely you convinced everyone that you were content to stay at the bottom, and that's probably why you are at the bottom right now.

I didn't say a degree guarantees you won't be hired for a job needing a high school diploma, just that employers won't want to if they think a person would not be content at the bottom. Turning down management jobs and limiting yourself to only applying for low skilled jobs certainly sends that message, so mission accomplished.

Now, if someone comes in with a degree and says they are hell bent on getting a job that requires a degree, don't expect them to be hired as a TM anytime soon.....

 

[redeye58]

Let's see if I've got this right:
If you have a degree, you shouldn't expect to be hired as a TM but should go for an ETL spot - regardless if you're not planning to make Target a career, just a paycheck while working on an advance degree.
If you don't advance right away, it's because you don't WANT to & will be forever noted in your file.
Getting an advance degree "compounds the problem" because BR16 is "going places" whereas ETLs aren't so BR16 shouldn't expect anything more unless they change career course & declare undying fealty to Spot (ie: kissing a$$).

Many folks are at the Red House simply because:
a) they're working on a degree
b) waiting for an opening in their field
c) Spot's the only one hiring right now
d) second job because of cutbacks at first job
e) lotto numbers crapped out again
f) any combination of the above.

If someone doesn't have a job in their current field, it's FAR better to show that they were continuing education in said field in addition to working a Mcjob than merely showing that they were working. THAT shows discipline, dedication & time-management.
There's nothing wrong with someone wanting to increase their wages (incrementally) while marking time for a degree-related job but GSA is hardly rocket science & the 'reasoning' used sounds like a vindictive or insecure ETL (quite a few at my store) rather than anything related to a realistic business model. Of course, we all know that Target hardly fits anything 'realistic'.

 

[StateofTarget]

"you shouldn't expect to be hired as a TM but should go for an ETL spot - regardless if you're not planning to make Target a career, just a paycheck while working on an advance degree"

You know, this sounds good.... but it is really BS. The fact is while you are working at spot "getting your advanced degree" - everyone else getting an advanced degree is getting ahead in the world. If you are getting an advanced degree (masters, JD, etc) you are *not supposed to be working retail!!!!* If you are getting a masters, you are *supposed* to be working internships or other jobs in your field designed for students working on such degrees! So if you are getting a masters in social work, for example, you should be interning at a hospital/shelter/etc. If you are getting a JD you should be interning as a legal assistant. If you are getting a masters in psychology you should be interning with a therapist/psychiatrist. Don't come back and say "there are no internships" because that is garbage. Employers in this economy are frothing at the mouth to get people working on advanced degrees for cheap as interns.


"waiting for an opening in their field"

Ever hear beggars can't be choosers? Again, this sounds good at first.... but once you think about it then it is also garbage. First of all this doesn't even make sense. Ok, chances are retail is *not* in your "field". (never heard of a degree in retail before) Soooo.... since you are already working a job that is "not in your field", why not go for a job that also is "not in your field", but requires a degree and pays 50K? You might have a degree in education. Maybe there are no teaching jobs. So you choose to work retail instead of, say, an administrative assistant paying 40K? Or say a city inspector paying 40K? Lots of jobs out there that just require a degree in anything.

"Spot's the only one hiring right now"

LOL. Ever been to Monster.com? Didn't think so. Just checked. Thousands of jobs listed requiring a degree. None listed at Target. FYI - according to this website the unemployment rate for people with a degree was 4.2% last year, which is damn good considering the economy was worse then. http://www.prweb.com/releases/2011/2/prweb8116450.htm

"second job because of cutbacks at first job"

This is a legit reason.

"lotto numbers crapped out again"

You get a degree so you don't have to play the lotto my friend. Or do you think people spend 4 years and 70K in student loans just to look at their degree on the wall for fun while they work jobs that require a high school diploma or less?

"If you have a degree, you shouldn't expect to be hired as a TM but should go for an ETL spot - regardless if you're not planning to make Target a career"

Yea, pretty much. Because to do otherwise is just idiotic. Either way you are working at Target. You come in to work everyday wearing red and khaki. Ask can I help you find something just the same. Walk the floor just the same. Might as well get paid 50K to do it instead of $8/hour if you have a degree. Just because you don't intend to make Target a career doesn't mean you can't quit your job as an ETL when something you do want comes along. Just don't run around and tell everyone that is your plan.

"Getting an advance degree "compounds the problem" because BR16 is "going places" whereas ETLs aren't"

Yea, if BR16 has a masters, and ETLs have a bachelors, that's pretty much the case. Masters kicks the ass of a bachelors.

 

[3LetterDevil]

I made it perfectly clear that I had a BA in teaching, why I wasn't teaching (schedule didn't "work" for my family then), and even used projects I did in my program and student teaching as examples of "teamwork" and "leadership" in my interview. I was hired on the spot. I don't consider myself "overqualified" for my position because my degree has NOTHING to do with what I was hired to do.

 

[StateofTarget]

I made it perfectly clear that I had a BA in teaching, why I wasn't teaching (schedule didn't "work" for my family then), and even used projects I did in my program and student teaching as examples of "teamwork" and "leadership" in my interview. I was hired on the spot. I don't consider myself "overqualified" for my position because my degree has NOTHING to do with what I was hired to do.

Honestly it doesn't matter if you personally consider yourself overqualified. Your ETL basically told you that *they* do. That's all that matters.

 

[redeye58]

Beggars can't be choosers? How many of those with teaching degrees land jobs as admin assistants? City/State/Fed jobs? My state (like most) is CUTTING those jobs. Even if it's not in one's field, it's still better to be working ANY job as opposed to being unemployed.
Sure, Monster lists tons of jobs. Ever hear of fishing? They post a job, see how many responses they get, then pull it without ever doing a single interview. Then they repost it at lower pay to see how many still respond before pulling it again. It's repeated until the responses drop off so they can gauge how low they can pay the eventual hire.
As to working on a degree while ETL, more than a few have posted about the work/life imbalance & the scheduling wreaks havoc with classes. Our ETLs have an erratic rotation schedule so none are working on an advance degree. Why should they? At this point in their life, they don't *need* it.
One of my favorite TLs is trying desperately to finish his degree so he can escape retail but has had several more areas added after another TL quit, severely cutting down his study time.
Ya know SOT, maybe you should quit Sony & become a jobs placement counselor. You seem to have insight to every job market in the country. After all, in the other thread you mentioned getting your face chewed off by a Best Buy manager (& your boss & his boss' boss) but I guess the sheen wears off any new job after a while. At least you took the risk & we were all cheering you on but deriding others because they don't do the same is an insult. Scratch the TM veneer at any store & you might be surprised.

 

[StateofTarget]

Beggars can't be choosers? How many of those with teaching degrees land jobs as admin assistants? City/State/Fed jobs? My state (like most) is CUTTING those jobs. Even if it's not in one's field, it's still better to be working ANY job as opposed to being unemployed.
Sure, Monster lists tons of jobs. Ever hear of fishing? They post a job, see how many responses they get, then pull it without ever doing a single interview. Then they repost it at lower pay to see how many still respond before pulling it again. It's repeated until the responses drop off so they can gauge how low they can pay the eventual hire.
As to working on a degree while ETL, more than a few have posted about the work/life imbalance & the scheduling wreaks havoc with classes. Our ETLs have an erratic rotation schedule so none are working on an advance degree. Why should they? At this point in their life, they don't *need* it.
One of my favorite TLs is trying desperately to finish his degree so he can escape retail but has had several more areas added after another TL quit, severely cutting down his study time.
Ya know SOT, maybe you should quit Sony & become a jobs placement counselor. You seem to have insight to every job market in the country. After all, in the other thread you mentioned getting your face chewed off by a Best Buy manager (& your boss & his boss' boss) but I guess the sheen wears off any new job after a while. At least you took the risk & we were all cheering you on but deriding others because they don't do the same is an insult. Scratch the TM veneer at any store & you might be surprised.

Fine, I admit there are some reasons people may want to be TMs with a degree.

I suppose I am just jealous about it, and it just upsets me to see people with a degree seem to be so non-caring about actually using it. Kind of the same kind of feeling you get when you see people throw food away. It is like "Don't you realize how many people would love to have that, and you just do that?"

If I had a bachelors degree my ass would be milking it for all its worth. I suppose I just can't understand people with a degree yet choosing not to use it to the full potential. Even if there were no jobs here, my ass would move 8 states away if that's what it took. Either way, I wouldn't rest until I was making 50K+.

 

[redeye58]

Fine, I admit there are some reasons people may want to be TMs with a degree.

I suppose I am just jealous about it, and it just upsets me to see people with a degree seem to be so non-caring about actually using it. Kind of the same kind of feeling you get when you see people throw food away. It is like "Don't you realize how many people would love to have that, and you just do that?"

If I had a bachelors degree my ass would be milking it for all its worth. I suppose I just can't understand people with a degree yet choosing not to use it to the full potential. Even if there were no jobs here, my ass would move 8 states away if that's what it took. Either way, I wouldn't rest until I was making 50K+.

Sorry. And I'm jealous that you broke free from red & khaki.
20 yrs, a marriage, 3 kids (& 50 lbs) ago, I'd have taken the jump in a heartbeat. Life gets more complicated the farther down the road you go.
I'm betting you'll get the opp to finish your degree so you'll eventually get to jump even higher.

 

[Rarejem]

I think that you are at a place in time where it you are fitting your life into your job. Life has a funny way of changing the plans you have as an 18 year old, a 25 year old, a 30 year old, etc. I have a degree. I also have an education - not necessarily the same thing. My pursuit of my degree has led me to where I am today, offered me opportunities that have formed my life and continues to affect where I am going. Right now my opportunity is Target, thanks to some of those funny little plan changers that life tossed my way. I'm glad that I found a job that fits into my Life.

 

[dek067]

to keep from beating a dead package of spam... :girl_sigh:

An American investment banker was taking a much-needed vacation in a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. The boat had several large, fresh fish in it.

The investment banker was impressed by the quality of the fish and asked the Mexican how long it took to catch them.

The fisherman replied, “Only a little while.”

The banker then asked why he didn’t stay out longer and catch more fish?

The fisherman replied he had enough to support his family’s immediate needs.

The banker then asked “But what do you do with the rest of your time?”

The fisherman said, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siesta with my wife, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos, I have a full and busy life, senor.”

The banker scoffed, “I am an Ivy League MBA, and I could help you. You should spend more time fishing; and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats.

“Eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor; eventually opening your own cannery.

“You would control the product, processing and distribution. You would of course need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then Los Angeles and eventually New York where you could run your ever-expanding enterprise.”

The fisherman asked, “But, how long will this all take?”

The banker replied, “15 to 20 years.”

“But what then?” asked the fisherman.

The banker laughed and said, “That’s the best part. When the time is right you would sell your company stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions.”

“Millions?…Then what, senor?”

The American said:

“Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos…”‘

 

[Fast Service Needed In]

My point exactly.... it's as if you have to go and check every day to see if a position is posted. I don't have time to do that!

Going back to what I originally said, they need to know you want to be developed. It takes several months to be prepared to become a Team Leader. If your store knows what they are doing then they will assign you a mentor (TL, SrTL, and/or ETL) who will teach you how to be a Team Leader. If you only apply for the position when it is posted it will be filled within weeks from someone else who had been developed or from someone who your STL/DTL deem "qualified."

Basically, we all know that most stores are run by TLs, not ETLs. If you haven't proven yourself to other TLs, ETLs, and your STL then they don't trust you to run the store. Being a Team Leader is like being an ETL, only with less pay and more responsibility (Expect More, Pay Less).

For example, my store has four TL positions posted (and have been for weeks). We have at least six team members who have expressed interest in being TLs. Each of them have been partnered with different TLs and ETLs, working on their development. Once the ETLs decide a team member is ready, they will interview with the DTL. I know at least two of them have been doing prep interviews with ETLs recently.

I'm actually an example of doing it the other way. I didn't apply for a TL position (or show any interest) until I saw one posted. I applied around May and didn't get promoted until October. I constantly worked with my TLs and ETLs until they thought I was ready. It's a slow process, you need to be patient.

On a semi-related note: the new TL pay grades almost makes it not worth it, considering we weren't payed enough before AE2012.

 

[PStorm]

Going back to what I originally said, they need to know you want to be developed. It takes several months to be prepared to become a Team Leader. If your store knows what they are doing then they will assign you a mentor (TL, SrTL, and/or ETL) who will teach you how to be a Team Leader. If you only apply for the position when it is posted it will be filled within weeks from someone else who had been developed or from someone who your STL/DTL deem "qualified."

Basically, we all know that most stores are run by TLs, not ETLs. If you haven't proven yourself to other TLs, ETLs, and your STL then they don't trust you to run the store. Being a Team Leader is like being an ETL, only with less pay and more responsibility (Expect More, Pay Less).

For example, my store has four TL positions posted (and have been for weeks). We have at least six team members who have expressed interest in being TLs. Each of them have been partnered with different TLs and ETLs, working on their development. Once the ETLs decide a team member is ready, they will interview with the DTL. I know at least two of them have been doing prep interviews with ETLs recently.

I'm actually an example of doing it the other way. I didn't apply for a TL position (or show any interest) until I saw one posted. I applied around May and didn't get promoted until October. I constantly worked with my TLs and ETLs until they thought I was ready. It's a slow process, you need to be patient.

On a semi-related note: the new TL pay grades almost makes it not worth it, considering we weren't payed enough before AE2012.

For me, the position was posted and brought to my attention by two ETL's, who told me to apply. No development/mentoring at all from other team leads or ETL's. No practice interviews. Did my first two with ETL's, third with STL, and fourth with DTL. Found out I got the TL spot a few days after the DTL interview. Only about a month between start to finish.

I kind of wish I had done it the "normal" way. I would have been more prepared, but I settled into the role with only a few bumps here and there.

 

[Backtohardlines]

Going back to what I originally said, they need to know you want to be developed. It takes several months to be prepared to become a Team Leader. If your store knows what they are doing then they will assign you a mentor (TL, SrTL, and/or ETL) who will teach you how to be a Team Leader. If you only apply for the position when it is posted it will be filled within weeks from someone else who had been developed or from someone who your STL/DTL deem "qualified."

Basically, we all know that most stores are run by TLs, not ETLs. If you haven't proven yourself to other TLs, ETLs, and your STL then they don't trust you to run the store. Being a Team Leader is like being an ETL, only with less pay and more responsibility (Expect More, Pay Less).

For example, my store has four TL positions posted (and have been for weeks). We have at least six team members who have expressed interest in being TLs. Each of them have been partnered with different TLs and ETLs, working on their development. Once the ETLs decide a team member is ready, they will interview with the DTL. I know at least two of them have been doing prep interviews with ETLs recently.

I'm actually an example of doing it the other way. I didn't apply for a TL position (or show any interest) until I saw one posted. I applied around May and didn't get promoted until October. I constantly worked with my TLs and ETLs until they thought I was ready. It's a slow process, you need to be patient.

On a semi-related note: the new TL pay grades almost makes it not worth it, considering we weren't payed enough before AE2012.

I let it be known last year, that I wanted to be developed. Shortly after that, the CTL was filled and I became the market sponsor. As time went on, I picked up more and more of the tl work. She left in October and a temp TL was appointed. The position has finally been posted.
My store has, as far as I know, never assigned mentors, you have to go find your own. Nor have they let anyone know that a desired position is opening. I guess it depends on the exec team of the individual store.

 

[Fast Service Needed In]

I guess it depends on the exec team of the individual store.

Yeah, a lot of our people in development were chosen by TLs or approached TLs first because ETLs are .. well .. ETLs.