Archived Invasion of privacy?

[Serri330]

Let me preface this by saying that our fairly new ETL-AP thinks she's an STL and acts accordingly. She's done several things that I, personally, feel are borderline morally wrong. She's been responsible for more people being fired than I've seen let go in my last 6 years with the company. She has caused fear, resentment, and an uncomfortable feeling of being constantly watched and targeted by the vast majority of the team. Numerous times, on the nights that she's closed, she has demeaned and criticized the team to the point that they have all walked out right at 11:30, no matter how far behind they are, because they can't deal with her. And these are people that normally stay until 12:30 - 1am to make sure all zone and gobacks are done. Before she was promoted to ETL, she was the Electronics TL at a nearby store. When she was given that department, within two months time, her entire team had either put in their two weeks, or simply walked out on her.

Now, onto the issue at hand.

A friend of mine works in Photo. I work in Electronics. Our store has a serious problem with a lack of available lockers at TSC. As in, it's nearly impossible to get one, because most have been claimed by team members that keep them locked with combination/key locks, even when they aren't currently working. We've had a problem with internal theft between TMs in the past, so my friend, when she can't get a locker, takes her wallet and phone to photo and keeps it in a drawer behind her counter to stay safe.

A few days ago, our ETL-AP dug through the photo drawers and removed all personal effects from them. Including my friends wallet, phone, the photo departments great team cards, guest comment cards, phone adaptors for the printing kiosks, etc.

Now here's where it gets fishy. The ETL, according to her own words, waited about 15 minutes after removing the items, and called my friend into the AP office over channel one. My friend finished with her guest, which took about 2 or so minutes, and then headed to see her. My friend claims that she entered the office, and the ETL handed her her phone and wallet back, without asking whether or not they were hers, and then proceeded to coach her for having her items in the drawer instead of in a locker. That's not the issue here, though. Because when my friend was handed her phone back, she immediately unlocked the screen. When an android phone has a pattern unlock password, as her has, you are given a certain number of times to attempt the password before the phone automatically locks for 30 seconds. When she unlocked it, it was counting down the time before she could yet again attempt it.

We tested it several times, and you have to attempt the password about 7 times before it locks you from attempting again. So she couldn't have accidentally tried once or twice, she would have been deliberately trying to break into the phone. And the only reason she should have had to unlock it was to check and see who's it was. But she obviously knew it was my friend's, because she had already called her to the office before she attempted to unlock it. And she never asked my friend if it was hers, and my friend made no indication that it belonged to her when the ETL handed it to her.

I guess my question is, what can my friend do about this? She feels that this was a real invasion of privacy, and that there was no reason for her try and break into her phone. As far as she knows, she tried just the amount of times that it took to lock the phone up, but considering that she was sitting with her stuff in the office for about 15 minutes means it could have been the last of several attempts. My friends would talk to the ETL-HR about this, but unfortunately, she is best friends with the ETL-AP, and the last time she raised a concern about her, she ended up being coached 15 minutes later, so she doesn't feel it's safe to bring it up without fear of retaliation.

Any advice?

 

[commiecorvus]

I wouldn't suggest this under just about any other circumstance but Integrity Hotline seems like the only option.

 

[The Mule]

Integrity Hotline for sure, for more than one reason. Sounds like someone needs to get their APBP to reign their AP person in.

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

I would go to your stl, first. Then go from there. Document all events. On lockers deal, the lockers need to be fixed. Was sft contacted or work riders done?
Hotline would contact stl before anyone. Tm need to talk stl for help, if nothing has been done.

 

[Barcode]

I keep personal effects behind Service Desk/Photo sometimes when I work there... Don't see why this is even an issue.

Definitely an invasion of privacy if the ETL-AP was trying to unlock the phone.

 

[RankOne]

Don't go to the STL if you think they may be friends at all! Your STL will let your AP get away with it while coaching them. Call integrity hotline for sure.
They can easily partner with Investigations to review video. There's a lot of people there who take this very seriously, especially if she's new in role.

That said don't be surprised if nothing comes of it. You technically did violate policy by having a cell phone on the floor...and anything of yours on target property is technically fair game as long as there's a witness.

 

[Barcode]

I disagree. Cell phone on the floor constitutes you having your phone visible. If their stuff was stowed out of sight in drawers BEHIND the counter, that would not be having your "cell phone on the floor". As long as it stays non visible the entire time, I don't see why its even an issue. You wouldn't believe how many times I've seen ETLs with phones in their pockets. Heck I've even seen a couple take them out while on the floor!

ETL-AP has no business taking peoples personal effects out of the drawer behind photo. Heck I've had a cold the past week so I kept my dayquil + water bottle behind the counter, and no one said anything... Its only me back there so who cares!

 

[StaticSun]

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[RankOne]

I didn't say its not against common sense. But it is a violation of policy. The ETL may be on a power trip so that's why I suggested calling the hotline.

 

[Serri330]

I disagree. Cell phone on the floor constitutes you having your phone visible. If their stuff was stowed out of sight in drawers BEHIND the counter, that would not be having your "cell phone on the floor". As long as it stays non visible the entire time, I don't see why its even an issue. You wouldn't believe how many times I've seen ETLs with phones in their pockets. Heck I've even seen a couple take them out while on the floor!

ETL-AP has no business taking peoples personal effects out of the drawer behind photo. Heck I've had a cold the past week so I kept my dayquil + water bottle behind the counter, and no one said anything... Its only me back there so who cares!

She keeps water in her department, and I always keep water in Electronics, too. It gets hot, and we do a lot of running around, and we don't normally have the coverage to allow us to run off for a drink of water when we need it. It was never an issue until this particular ETL came onto the scene. She went on a coached frenzy over water. I could totally understand and respect if it was soda or Starbucks or energy drink. But I literally had to get a note from a doctor to get her off my case about having a closed bottle of water at the Boat. That should shed a little light onto the situation.

Unfortunately, our store is governed by a lot of ETL/STL politics. Our STL wants nothing to do with anyone on the TV level, and pretty much ignores everything that goes on, unless it actually directly effects him. I will suggest that she raise these concerns to the STL, but I worry that it will do, as some have said, more harm than good, and garner a lack of real results. If she does choose to talk to him, I'll suggest she has one or two other people present, and I'm more than willing to accompany her, seeing as how I was there when it occurred, and can vouch for the times, actions, etc.

One thing I forgot to mention: The ETL attempted to claim that she was only over there and digging through the drawers because another Electronics TM, who isn't very familiar with Photo, called her over for help with a guest. However, her story didn't add up, as both my friend and I were a few steps away from photo at the time, and the Electronics TL would have called for one of us before an ETL. My friend also directly asked him if it was true that he called the ETL help, and he said that she was already over there going through all the drawers when he walked over.

I would be completely honest if my friend only brought her phone over to Photo because she was texting or what have you on the clock. I love her to death, but I know it's not allowed. And she doesn't. She only has it over there to prevent it being stolen. It remains zipped up in her wallet, in the drawer at all times unless she's on break/lunch. The locker issue is apparently something they are working on, but it's been going on for months, and I don't see an end in sight anytime soon.

Funny story. My same friend was coming back from break today, and was walking by the GE office. The GSTL was sitting in their texting on her phone. My friend warned her that they are cracking down on cellphone use on the floor (several write ups have occurred lately). The GSTL just mumbled and said, "Yeah, uh huh..." and kept texting. Great leadership :/

 

[buliSBI]

Document everything...and go to the STL and ETL HR. Integrity hotline if they don't take it serious.

TMs are not forced to use the lockers. The only reason that Target provides the lockers is for liability issues. Target will not be held responsible if a TM decides not to use a locker.

Cell Phones anywhere in office or on the floor is against store cell phone policy.

 

[Barcode]

What is spot's definition of "on the floor"? Does it have to be visible, or does concealed count too? If the latter, then theres a lot of people TL+ at my store breaking the rule.

 

[Serri330]

What is spot's definition of "on the floor"? Does it have to be visible, or does concealed count too? If the latter, then theres a lot of people TL+ at my store breaking the rule.

Agreed, I'd like clarification on this as well. I, personally, have always carried my phone on my person throughout the day. I never use it, but I feel more comfortable having it in my pocket. Both my TL, my ETL, and various others are aware of it, and they have never said anything to me, besides, of course, warning me not to use it on the floor, which I don't. It's always powered off.

When my friend was confronted by the ETL-AP about it, she said that she couldn't have it in the drawer, it had to be in a locker. When my friend brought up the issues with lockers, the ETL herself said she'd rather have my friend carry her phone in her pocket than have it in the drawer. Now, if the whole point of the coaching and removal of the items was because she didn't want personal effects on the floor, then why is it okay for her to be carrying her cellphone in her pocket? That makes no sense. I'd think that someone would be more inclined to use it if it's in their pocket, rather than tucked away in a drawer.

 

[ISIS639]

Spot's definition of "on the floor" means it can't be on the floor. No one, other than an ETL and/or LODs should have a cell phone anywhere on the floor. It should not be in your pocket, or kept in a drawer. Maybe they let TMs get away with it as long as long as they keep it concealed, but still, the rule is, they shouldn't have it on them, period. Keeping personal effects in a drawer is completely inappropriate, in my opinion, but I understand it, under your friend's circumstances. Now, if you call the hotline, all the ETL is going to say is she tried to get into your friend's phone to see who it belonged to. When she couldn't, she reviewed tapes to find out that information. Now, you know that is not true, but I really, truly, don't think you're going to get anywhere with this, at least, not with that ETL. It may be worth it to call just for the locker situation though, that is pretty messed up.

 

[nobiliscus]

The ETL-AP was most likely just trying to figure out whose phone it was. Because the phone was not unlocked, she was unable to find out whose phone it was. Because she is the ETL-AP, she most likely checked the cameras to see who put the phone in the drawer. This is why she knew exactly whose phone it was.
Your friend can complain about the locker situation to your ETL-HR to resolve that issue, but in this situation the ETL-AP did nothing that could get her in trouble. Her job is to promote a safe and secure environment, and keeping a phone and wallet in a drawer sometimes left unattended opens doors for the kinds of theft she is trying to deter.

 

[The Mule]

SFTs will also have their cell phones on them too. Not sure what the rule for us is, but when you're on the roof/WAVE trying to troubleshoot something and you need to call one of your peers for advice, you don't want to be running back and forth to a phone somewhere else.

 

[stupid rules]

I am a grown man, I am not 8 years old. I will carry my phone on me and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it. Now with that being said, I do not use it on the floor unless I am looking something up for a guest (that's how I learned about the pinkgreenmachine, one direction, and who knows what else), or unless I am communicating with someone else at a different store, HQ, or someone who is off, I also use it for an alarm to ring at 11:00 and at 4:00 (who can guess the reason?!).

 

[Serri330]

The ETL-AP was most likely just trying to figure out whose phone it was. Because the phone was not unlocked, she was unable to find out whose phone it was. Because she is the ETL-AP, she most likely checked the cameras to see who put the phone in the drawer. This is why she knew exactly whose phone it was.
Your friend can complain about the locker situation to your ETL-HR to resolve that issue, but in this situation the ETL-AP did nothing that could get her in trouble. Her job is to promote a safe and secure environment, and keeping a phone and wallet in a drawer sometimes left unattended opens doors for the kinds of theft she is trying to deter.

The problem is that, based on the time line of events, that's impossible. She had already called my friend to the office, meaning she knew who's phone it was before she attempted to unlock it. The lock down on the phone only lasts 30 seconds, which means she would have tried breaking into it AFTER she called my friend over the walkie. Plus, the phone itself was in my friends clutch, which had her wallet and ID plainly visible, so why would she need to unlock the phone in the first place? If I find a guests purse, I don't try to look at their phone to find out who they are, I look at their wallet, because it's easier and not an invasion of privacy.

We know that leaving the wallet and phone in an unattended drawer draws theft. That is completely understandable, and it's what my friend was coached for. She has no problem with that judgment. While she did bring it to the department for a good reason, she gets it. She doesn't even necessarily object to the fact that the ETL took her items out of the drawer and into the office (although she thinks it could have been easily settled if the ETL had just called her over to Photo and taken care of it over there, but whatever.) The only issue she has is that the ETL attempted to go through her phone for absolutely no reason. She feels violated. And also trapped in a corner, because she can't go to HR, not only because their buddies, but also because the ETL-AP can just claim she was looking for the phone's owner, even though we know that's not at all true.

 

[StateofTarget]

I am a grown man, I am not 8 years old. I will carry my phone on me and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it. Now with that being said, I do not use it on the floor unless I am looking something up for a guest (that's how I learned about the pinkgreenmachine, one direction, and who knows what else), or unless I am communicating with someone else at a different store, HQ, or someone who is off, I also use it for an alarm to ring at 11:00 and at 4:00 (who can guess the reason?!).

Yes, I am a little sick of this "treat adults like they are a children" cr** from ETLs.... Especially because it is going on a ton at the store I was just hired at.

The other day a 22 year old ETL went over to a sales floor TL in his 30's and said "Hey kid, good job on that end cap". Myself and two other TMs around me looked at each other with a "WTF?" look on our face. The ETLs at my store are so full of themselves they actually see anyone below ETL level as "kids", even if that person is 10+ years older than them.

 

[StateofTarget]

The ETL-AP was most likely just trying to figure out whose phone it was. Because the phone was not unlocked, she was unable to find out whose phone it was. Because she is the ETL-AP, she most likely checked the cameras to see who put the phone in the drawer. This is why she knew exactly whose phone it was.
Your friend can complain about the locker situation to your ETL-HR to resolve that issue, but in this situation the ETL-AP did nothing that could get her in trouble. Her job is to promote a safe and secure environment, and keeping a phone and wallet in a drawer sometimes left unattended opens doors for the kinds of theft she is trying to deter.

The problem is that, based on the time line of events, that's impossible. She had already called my friend to the office, meaning she knew who's phone it was before she attempted to unlock it. The lock down on the phone only lasts 30 seconds, which means she would have tried breaking into it AFTER she called my friend over the walkie. Plus, the phone itself was in my friends clutch, which had her wallet and ID plainly visible, so why would she need to unlock the phone in the first place? If I find a guests purse, I don't try to look at their phone to find out who they are, I look at their wallet, because it's easier and not an invasion of privacy.

We know that leaving the wallet and phone in an unattended drawer draws theft. That is completely understandable, and it's what my friend was coached for. She has no problem with that judgment. While she did bring it to the department for a good reason, she gets it. She doesn't even necessarily object to the fact that the ETL took her items out of the drawer and into the office (although she thinks it could have been easily settled if the ETL had just called her over to Photo and taken care of it over there, but whatever.) The only issue she has is that the ETL attempted to go through her phone for absolutely no reason. She feels violated. And also trapped in a corner, because she can't go to HR, not only because their buddies, but also because the ETL-AP can just claim she was looking for the phone's owner, even though we know that's not at all true.

Look, basically there is nothing you can do about this. Even if you report it through integrity, it will only cause this ETL and her buddy ETLs to start gunning for you.

What can you take out of this experience? You now know that this ETL is a snake and is not to be trusted for any reason at any time. Let me say that again - THIS ETL IS A SNAKE AND IS NOT TO BE TRUSTED EVER FOR ANY REASON.

This ETL-AP at your store is the most dangerous kind of ETL there is.... It is an ETL who made it her mission day one to go out of her way to write up/term people just for the power trip.... and to make her even more dangerous, she is clearly willing to do highly unethical and immoral things in order to accomplish her sick little power trip.

Never tell her anything no matter how nice she may be in the future. If she starts acting nice for a period of time, remember that SHE HAS NOT CHANGED. This is the kind of person she is. She will knife you and any other TM in the back the first chance she gets.

There is an old Native American story that applies here.

One day there was a scorpion walking along a river who wanted to go across. Obviously, scorpions can not cross a river. However, a fox happened to be walking along the river at the same time. The scorpion said to the fox "Would you let me ride on your back across the river?". The fox replied "No, if I do that you'll sting me and I'll drown." To that the scorpion said, "Why would I do that? If I did that you would sink and we would both die."

So the fox thought about it and decided to let the scorpion ride on his back. As the fox was half way done swimming across the river, the scorpion stung him. As the fox was sinking he asked the scorpion "Why did you do that? No we will both die". The scorpion replied "I know. I couldn't help it. It's in my nature".

The moral of the story? Some people are so sinister in their nature that they simply can not be trusted for any reason.

Remember this story whenever you see this ETL.

 

[stupid rules]

I agree with you. Some people are your best friends until you're not around. I would much rather someone not be phoney, if you don't like me then tell me. My feelings won't get hurt, I won't hold ill will towards you.

 

[Barcode]

Just don't trust your ETLs/TLs with more information than they need to know. Thats my general rule that I follow and it serves me well.

I'd still call integrity though, even if nothing comes of it, why the hell not.

 

[TargetOldTimer]

Spot's definition of "on the floor" means it can't be on the floor. No one, other than an ETL and/or LODs should have a cell phone anywhere on the floor. It should not be in your pocket, or kept in a drawer. Maybe they let TMs get away with it as long as long as they keep it concealed, but still, the rule is, they shouldn't have it on them, period. Keeping personal effects in a drawer is completely inappropriate, in my opinion, but I understand it, under your friend's circumstances. Now, if you call the hotline, all the ETL is going to say is she tried to get into your friend's phone to see who it belonged to. When she couldn't, she reviewed tapes to find out that information. Now, you know that is not true, but I really, truly, don't think you're going to get anywhere with this, at least, not with that ETL. It may be worth it to call just for the locker situation though, that is pretty messed up.

I agree. Cell phone and wallet should have been left in her car. Water at breaks. Of course most etls don't have the time to concern themselves with such trivial things, but you have a new etl trying to prove herself. IMHO, I wouldn't call integrity hotline. Doesn't ever seem to turn out well.

 

[sher]

Wait, you guys aren't allowed to have water bottles? I take mine on the floor and put it in my cart. That Target air is so dry. They don't like it when other SL TMs leave bottles of water in the fitting room when it's a brand we sell. They've thrown other people's drinks away. But they seem okay with them otherwise. Guests have asked me about my Bobble and then bought one because of it, so if they ever decide they don't like me having it, I'll say that. Then I'll bring in a doctor's note about dehydration or something.

On the cell phone thing, I'd just go to the person and say "hey, kinda funny/weird but that day my phone locked me out as if someone tried to break into it" in a jokey, non-confrontational way, while still being obvious about accusing them.

I never use the lockers. Someone I know had his stuff in one, but someone cleared his code or whatever and when they opened it, his stuff was gone. I just leave my phone in my coat pocket on the hanger. And in the summer, I just left it off and in my pocket.

 

[Serri330]

I agree. Cell phone and wallet should have been left in her car. Water at breaks. Of course most etls don't have the time to concern themselves with such trivial things, but you have a new etl trying to prove herself. IMHO, I wouldn't call integrity hotline. Doesn't ever seem to turn out well.

Funny thing about leaving it in her car...

We've had a rash of car break ins and car thefts in our parking lot for about a year now. Add in the fact that my friend happens to own a 90's model Honda, and you can see why should wouldn't be wanting to leave personal effects in her vehicle.