Not loved by all

Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
864
I'm struggling with the reality that there are team members that don't respect the position of leads. I don't wield my authority with abandon or feel overly powerful to any degree (in reality, I feel inferior to the team I have to lead at times).

I had a confrontation with a TM recently after asking them to help me with a task. They challenged me on why. I gave them reasons. They still denied to help. I did the task. Later, I found the TM complaining about me. I confronted and found that they don't respect me and apparently felt it necessary to tell me that other TMs don't either.

This obviously wasn't cool.

I don't expect people to like me. I don't really care, actually. But, please respect the position.

Guess I need to learn how to document for insubordination. Anyone have any tips.
 
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
864
I'm curious what kind of task you gave. Some TMs are just assholes

Nothing special. Wanted help prepping the line before the start of a second unload. A few uboats were left in their department from the previous unload. And wanted help transferring remaining push to non-dedicated vehicles, so custom blocked ones were available for unload. It's a process we don't do except for the rare doubles. Makes the second unload smoother and allows push to continue during that unload.
 

Black Sheep 214

Kiss no butts, give no fox
Joined
Apr 27, 2018
Messages
2,663
I'm struggling with the reality that there are team members that don't respect the position of leads. I don't wield my authority with abandon or feel overly powerful to any degree (in reality, I feel inferior to the team I have to lead at times).

I had a confrontation with a TM recently after asking them to help me with a task. They challenged me on why. I gave them reasons. They still denied to help. I did the task. Later, I found the TM complaining about me. I confronted and found that they don't respect me and apparently felt it necessary to tell me that other TMs don't either.

This obviously wasn't cool.

I don't expect people to like me. I don't really care, actually. But, please respect the position.

Guess I need to learn how to document for insubordination. Anyone have any tips.
I’m not generally a big advocate of corrective action, but in the case of insubordination it is an absolute necessity to maintain team cohesiveness, as you have observed. Personally, in that situation I probably would have told that TM to either perform the task or punch out and go home, which is how that type of thing was handled at my store. Challenging you regarding why they are being assigned a task would be enough for a coaching, even if the TM later performed the task.

As far as a write-up goes, again, probably ASANTS, we had to have permission from HR for anything but a coaching, but in serious cases documentation could go straight to a write-up, or even a final. Check with your HR about what they will permit. If you feel physically threatened by this TM you can have HR or another TL in the room with you when you deliver the corrective.

Ask HR if there is a template to use for an insubordination write-up, there may be one. Seems like we used to do write-ups for failure to follow directions, too.
Sorry that happened to you, and good luck!
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2011
Messages
32,243
If that tm was assigned to your area & did that. Document the event & tell your etl or hr. We got no time for that now. I notice people new hires are not guest friendly, go for backup, answer the phones, walkies or call boxes too. Then, they call off & wonder why their hours got cut or got a coaching for attendance.
 
Joined
May 6, 2020
Messages
499
In our store, leadership walks on eggshells. For fear of upsetting TMs and losing them. Loafing, cursing and low performance is overlooked. It is disgusting.
I think that is going to end once Target cuts hours in January and February because you won't need the people.

I would document the behavior by just sending an email to HR or your ETL though.
 
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Messages
1,117
That would not go down well with me and I don’t care if they don’t like me. Nine times out of ten the ones that tell you “and everyone hates you!” think that because no one wants to argue with them, not that they don’t like you.

I can’t imagine one of my TMs mouthing off like that. I’d check in personally to see why (like do they have too much to do and think they aren’t going to get their work done) but if they’re just being unreasonable they’re going to quickly be finding alternate employment, usually because they’re an ass to get their boss to back off (I don’t have time for her drama so I’ll find someone else to do it) and it doesn’t work that way with me. That’s the best way to become my new work buddy.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2018
Messages
2,797
Was this TM a direct repot of yours? If yes, write them up.

I will say that I often have to push back against leadership requests. I'm more respectful about it, but it has to be done. TLs don't always know what the workload and priorities are for every TM, especially those not directly under them (but even my own TL can be daft about that at times.) I often have to say something like, "I talked to [ETL] and was told that X and Y need to be done today. If that gets done, then I need to start working on Z. So, let me get that stuff done, and if I have time leftover, then I'll be happy to help you with your request." A couple of times, I've had to be a bit more firm with, "[ETL] specifically told me that she doesn't want me doing [whatever] because it's not fair to have me do it when my area needs attention. I'm only to do that if everything in my area is done. If you insist I'll do what you want, of course, but I will talk to [ETL] about it tomorrow."

This is a rather constant problem on days when my ETL is not in the building.

It's not cool that TM's aren't respecting you. But, my advice as a TM is to make sure you understand what that specific TM's workload and priorities are before making requests.What might seem like a perfectly reasonable request to you in the moment, might not be so reasonable considering what else the TM has to do. Engaging and understanding what is going on in each TM's day before making requests earns respect.
 
Joined
Sep 25, 2017
Messages
1,171
Tolerate this and that TM, possibly others, will know they can walk all over you and get away with it. Doesn't mean you have to come down on the TM like a sack of hammers, but it does need to be addressed.
That said, respect is earned. Yes, there's some that comes with the title but it still has to be earned every day.
 
Joined
Mar 31, 2019
Messages
80
In our store, leadership walks on eggshells. For fear of upsetting TMs and losing them. Loafing, cursing and low performance is overlooked. It is disgusting.
Do we work at the same store?

-----To OP,

At this point I would partner with HR to see what type of coaching/document you can do after the fact. Partner with your ETL and SD in terms of what to do if this where to happen again.
 

Planosss enraged

User friendly.
Joined
Apr 30, 2017
Messages
3,702
Do we work at the same store?

-----To OP,

At this point I would partner with HR to see what type of coaching/document you can do after the fact. Partner with your ETL and SD in terms of what to do if this where to happen again.
At this point I document my convos with leadership. The fish rots from the head.
 

Yetive

Servant of 2 Masters
Joined
Feb 3, 2016
Messages
6,761
In our store, leadership walks on eggshells. For fear of upsetting TMs and losing them. Loafing, cursing and low performance is overlooked. It is disgusting.
Which is how you lose the good ones who get frustrated, and end up with a store full of unhappy, unmotivated, untrained leaders and team members.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2021
Messages
322
Sometimes you have to present them with the plan and their role in it, straight up. Like this: "We're going to prep the line before the second unload. I need you to transfer the remaining push to make our second unload smoother..." Be a field general at times, it makes people feel like they're contributing to a bigger plan and making a difference. Thank them afterward by telling them how they contributed. If they are going to be an insubordinate shit anyway, well some people are just like that. Maybe this person has a certain way that works when communicating with them? Do they get enough positive reinforcement? Target says that for effective learning and performance, 4-1 positive to negative feedback ratio is where they want leaders/trainers to be, though nobody actually manages that.
 

SilentCrow

ETL-Remodel & GM-ETL
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
463
Part of it is that you have to find a way to get team members buy in. I don’t expect people to respect my position on the bases that I have a title, don’t care about that, I care about my respect as a person first and foremost and that I’m a great leader.
Giving you a reasonable task and not presenting it in a dictator fashion and you going to brush me off and not do anything? No no no no. If you let that slide then you’ll be the punching bag and your team will go rogue. It needs to be addressed.

With that being said you’ll always have a few team members that just don’t like you for whatever reason. Don’t care, they get paid to do a job. As long as I know I’m being fair, consistent, and reasonable I can’t lose sleep over it.
 
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60SecondsRemaining

Former SrTL - Replen
Joined
Mar 21, 2014
Messages
732
I'm a big advocate of altering behavior through leadership and understanding, and improving it through communication.

The first question I would ask myself is why did this person refuse to help me.

The second question I would ask is can I influence that reason.

And as much as I preach true leadership values - then there is a time and a place for direct feedback. Your job is to be a task/people manager. You asked them to do something, they asked why (this can be a valid response), then continued to refuse. Setting the line is a reasonable request if this is a flow or backroom team member (or even a salesfloor team member), and after explaining the why, on the second refusal I would have just written them up for insubordination and called it a day. Respect is mutual. You respected them by giving them the benefit of the doubt and explaining the reasons, they disrespected you when they refused to perform a reasonable work task.
 
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