Archived So I was setting planograms with another TM this morning....

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So this morning I was setting planograms (no, not end caps, actual freaking aisles) with another TM for half the day. This guy was hired by Target right after he lost his job when his previous employer went out of business.... his previous employer was circuit city. He had worked for them 5 years up until the day his circuit city store shut down.

So anyway, conversation went like this:

Me: Damn, this is crazy. The GSTL has been going nuts all day because no one is available for backup, call buttons have already gone to 3rd request 5 times today, and they still said we are over payroll at the huddle. Then they send plano home and have sales floor finish their work. I thought things were bad when I quit, but since I've been rehired I've never seen it as bad as it is now.
Him: I've seen it this bad before.
Me: Oh yea?
Him: Yea, it was pretty much like this during my last year at circuit city.


I didn't pay much attention to his comment until after I clocked out and was thinking about the day. Then what he said really hit me. Makes you think, doesn't it?

Yea, obviously Target is not going out of business anytime soon.... but think about it this way, they've pretty much made all the cuts they possibly can without having to actually shut down the stores for lack of staffing. Chances are, there will be another economic crash within the next 2 to 5 years. If they are still running the stores like this when another economic recession/depression hits.... I'd be amazed if Target pulls it out without going out of business. Once another downturn hits, Target will have to cut costs to survive. There is simply nothing else they can do at this point to cut costs further other than lay people off and start closing stores.
 
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1. Government wants money.

2. Educational institutes (business) bring in big money for government.

3. Government tells corporations no one gets a living unless invested money into a degree.

4. People pay big money for degree.

5. Government gets money.

6. Middle class is destroyed.

7. Communism.

8. The end.
 

NOP

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I think the one difference between Target and Circuit City is that Circuit City is electronics-based, while Target is general-merchandise. People are always going to need toilet paper, but they don't "need" a TV.

That's one thing Target has going for them, is the diversity of their merchandise. Not to say that it couldn't happen, look at KMart's struggles, along with some other retail chains (Sears, JCPenney's, etc.).
 

mrknownothing

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I think the one difference between Target and Circuit City is that Circuit City is electronics-based, while Target is general-merchandise. People are always going to need toilet paper, but they don't "need" a TV.

That's one thing Target has going for them, is the diversity of their merchandise. Not to say that it couldn't happen, look at KMart's struggles, along with some other retail chains (Sears, JCPenney's, etc.).

This. They have necessities, not just luxuries. Mind you, the margins aren't great on necessities, but small sales are better than no sales.
 
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I think the one difference between Target and Circuit City is that Circuit City is electronics-based, while Target is general-merchandise. People are always going to need toilet paper, but they don't "need" a TV.

That's one thing Target has going for them, is the diversity of their merchandise. Not to say that it couldn't happen, look at KMart's struggles, along with some other retail chains (Sears, JCPenney's, etc.).

nice point. on a side note, did you guys see the article about our (relatively) new wedding dress/tux/bridesmaid line? super cheap dresses? all the comments people were posting were super positive. glad someone was thinking outside the box.
 
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If it really came down to it, the company could reformat the way they do community contributions to help save money.

As far as staffing goes, all big box retailers will need to strategize their staffing plans whether the economy goes up or down in the future.
 
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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
1. Government wants money.

2. Educational institutes (business) bring in big money for government.

3. Government tells corporations no one gets a living unless invested money into a degree.

4. People pay big money for degree.

5. Government gets money.

6. Middle class is destroyed.

7. Communism.

8. The end.

This is so random, what are you talking about?

Not as many people are paying money for a worthless degree as you seem to think. Yea, the media is making a big deal about it.... but seriously, take a look around. How many people do you know who are in college? (or anything beyond cheap community college) Probably damn near no one.

Everyone has figured out that college is a scam years ago. Are there sad cases of people getting 100K in debt? Sure, but the fact is, they are the extreme minority. Ask yourself how many people you know - friends, family, coworkers - who are actually in student loan debt. Out of all the people you know, you would probably be lucky to name one. I can't name anyone.

Your logic only works if you assume that the majority of the people in this country are stupid enough to enroll in college and get in massive debt. The fact is, most of them are not doing that. Just because the media likes pumping out emotional stories like "sam castro got a law degree and is 100K in debt he will never pay back now" doesn't mean everyone is doing what he did.

College grads do absolutely nothing to benefit anyone. (generally speaking) Everyone knows this now. It isn't as a big of conspiracy as you make it out to be. People know that being a plumber, electrician, etc is the way to go and that is what everyone is doing now.
 
M

mxrbook

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We clearly live in different socioeconomic circles. I know lots of people in debt from college, but I know lots more people who have degrees who are doing quite well because of their degrees. College is only a scam if you allow yourself to be scammed. If by "everyone" you mean those whom you know, you need to widen your circle a bit. All those plumbers, electricians, etc are not doing as well as you think.
 

commiecorvus

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Sad to say, I think that Spot is doing something even worse than a company that has financial issues.
I've worked for far too many businesses that were circling the drain and desperately cutting hours, offering AFLAC as health insurance, juggling coverage to get 4 people do 8 peoples work and putting ridiculous expectations on its managers.
But Spot is doing this for purely selfish reasons, they want to expand at an unnatural rate and they still want the bonuses.
It's a calculated risk and one that could pay off big time but not for us.
So they use a formula that hurts the TMs physically and financially, and drives the TL and ETLs to distraction.
They are counting on the economy bouncing back and I sure hope it does because without that the company is sunk.
Of course that doesn't matter to them, they got their bonuses and have golden parachute clauses in their contracts so they will be fine.
 
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i've gone into other stores and seen some poor soul alone on a saturday trying to set cosmetic planograms. it looked as disastrous as it sounds.
 
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1. Government wants money.

2. Educational institutes (business) bring in big money for government.

3. Government tells corporations no one gets a living unless invested money into a degree.

4. People pay big money for degree.

5. Government gets money.

6. Middle class is destroyed.

7. Communism.

8. The end.

This is so random, what are you talking about?

Not as many people are paying money for a worthless degree as you seem to think. Yea, the media is making a big deal about it.... but seriously, take a look around. How many people do you know who are in college? (or anything beyond cheap community college) Probably damn near no one.

Everyone has figured out that college is a scam years ago. Are there sad cases of people getting 100K in debt? Sure, but the fact is, they are the extreme minority. Ask yourself how many people you know - friends, family, coworkers - who are actually in student loan debt. Out of all the people you know, you would probably be lucky to name one. I can't name anyone.

Your logic only works if you assume that the majority of the people in this country are stupid enough to enroll in college and get in massive debt. The fact is, most of them are not doing that. Just because the media likes pumping out emotional stories like "sam castro got a law degree and is 100K in debt he will never pay back now" doesn't mean everyone is doing what he did.

College grads do absolutely nothing to benefit anyone. (generally speaking) Everyone knows this now. It isn't as a big of conspiracy as you make it out to be. People know that being a plumber, electrician, etc is the way to go and that is what everyone is doing now.

Your fear is only four paragraphs long. Don't be so scared. It's a sad world we live in.
 

Formina Sage

Probably still better than you at the stacker
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1. Government wants money.

2. Educational institutes (business) bring in big money for government.

3. Government tells corporations no one gets a living unless invested money into a degree.

4. People pay big money for degree.

5. Government gets money.

6. Middle class is destroyed.

7. Communism.

8. The end.

This is so random, what are you talking about?

Not as many people are paying money for a worthless degree as you seem to think. Yea, the media is making a big deal about it.... but seriously, take a look around. How many people do you know who are in college? (or anything beyond cheap community college) Probably damn near no one.

Everyone has figured out that college is a scam years ago. Are there sad cases of people getting 100K in debt? Sure, but the fact is, they are the extreme minority. Ask yourself how many people you know - friends, family, coworkers - who are actually in student loan debt. Out of all the people you know, you would probably be lucky to name one. I can't name anyone.

Your logic only works if you assume that the majority of the people in this country are stupid enough to enroll in college and get in massive debt. The fact is, most of them are not doing that. Just because the media likes pumping out emotional stories like "sam castro got a law degree and is 100K in debt he will never pay back now" doesn't mean everyone is doing what he did.

College grads do absolutely nothing to benefit anyone. (generally speaking) Everyone knows this now. It isn't as a big of conspiracy as you make it out to be. People know that being a plumber, electrician, etc is the way to go and that is what everyone is doing now.

You couldn't be more wrong about that though. Tons and tons of people are in debt from student loans. Most are working on repaying them, and there are hundreds of thousands MORE that are in default. I've seen balances of over 300,000 dollars and that's just what they owe the Department of Education, not tacking on collection fees and possible private loans they may also have. Student loan debt is massive​.
 

commiecorvus

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You couldn't be more wrong about that though.
Tons and tons of people are in debt from student loans.
Most are working on repaying them, and there are hundreds of thousands MORE that are in default.
I've seen balances of over 300,000 dollars and that's just what they owe the Department of Education, not tacking on collection fees and possible private loans they may also have.
Student loan debt is massive​.

And this year the government will make a $51 billion profit from student loan borrowers—more than most major corporations in America.
Elizabeth Warren is trying to get a law passed that the rate of interest on student loans has to be the same as the one that big banks get.
Here is the link for the petition.
http://pac.petitions.moveon.org/sign/give-students-the-same
 

cihyfthedoor

Former BRTL – not working @ Target anymore! :D
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Messages
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The fact that there are so many students with so much student loan debt is why they came up with Income Based Repayment (a general concept which should be standard anyway). You only pay a reasonable amount based on how much you actually bring home. If you make a low enough amount, your official payment is $0. The downside is that you have to renew the IBR every year. So if you get a raise, get a promotion, etc., it will basically get factored in automatically the next year when you go to renew it. After 25 years of being in the IBR program, whatever is left on your loan is forgiven (although who wants to deliberately be that poor for 25 years?).

One of the upsides is that if you are in the public sector, the 25 years shrinks to only 10. So, the standard term, except any balance is forgiven.

This has helped a whole lot of students avoid life ruining bad credit, bankruptcy, collections, etc. (Because, you know, it makes a lot of sense to punish someone who can't pay, with even more money in fees and penalties. Which, obviously, they can't pay either. Yep. Seems logical. "They couldn't pay amount A, so let's add amount B to it! I think they'll be able to pay it then, it just needed to be higher, is all!").

They actually have a chance to become productive members of society (as long as they "know someone" who can get them "an in" into a good paying job, however, because sadly that's how our society works). Instead of being f***ed up the *** for the next 10-15 years by collectors and judges.
 
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Messages
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The fact that there are so many students with so much student loan debt is why they came up with Income Based Repayment (a general concept which should be standard anyway). You only pay a reasonable amount based on how much you actually bring home. If you make a low enough amount, your official payment is $0. The downside is that you have to renew the IBR every year. So if you get a raise, get a promotion, etc., it will basically get factored in automatically the next year when you go to renew it. After 25 years of being in the IBR program, whatever is left on your loan is forgiven (although who wants to deliberately be that poor for 25 years?).

One of the upsides is that if you are in the public sector, the 25 years shrinks to only 10. So, the standard term, except any balance is forgiven.

This has helped a whole lot of students avoid life ruining bad credit, bankruptcy, collections, etc. (Because, you know, it makes a lot of sense to punish someone who can't pay, with even more money in fees and penalties. Which, obviously, they can't pay either. Yep. Seems logical. "They couldn't pay amount A, so let's add amount B to it! I think they'll be able to pay it then, it just needed to be higher, is all!").

They actually have a chance to become productive members of society (as long as they "know someone" who can get them "an in" into a good paying job, however, because sadly that's how our society works). Instead of being f***ed up the *** for the next 10-15 years by collectors and judges.

I like this part;

"Since a borrower has a lower monthly payment to make, it will take longer to pay back the loan(s), therefore, more interest is paid." -wiki
 

buliSBI

Former Team Member
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Some of the reasons why Circuit City folded was because they expanded their stores and inventory beyond their means, and lost a lot of money on bad loans and financing.
 
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Because, you know, it makes a lot of sense to punish someone who can't pay, with even more money in fees and penalties. Which, obviously, they can't pay either. Yep. Seems logical. "They couldn't pay amount A, so let's add amount B to it! I think they'll be able to pay it then, it just needed to be higher, is all!"

Reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMszYYdrHfY (NSFW-Language)
 

commiecorvus

Former Signing Ninja
Staff member
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Joined
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Messages
18,123
Because, you know, it makes a lot of sense to punish someone who can't pay, with even more money in fees and penalties. Which, obviously, they can't pay either. Yep. Seems logical. "They couldn't pay amount A, so let's add amount B to it! I think they'll be able to pay it then, it just needed to be higher, is all!"

Reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMszYYdrHfY (NSFW-Language)

Louis CK is brilliant.
"I'm not being broke just to f*ck with you."
 
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Yikes...as far as student loans go, I am still paying on mine and my oldest will be entering college next year. My husband had his paid off when he joined the army. Neither of us are using our degrees, he got out of the military and went to work with the railroad and I am still 'raising' my son and daughter and working my 'sanity' job as my husband calls it at Target.
I guess we are lucky as far as Plano goes...we are usually the last ones to get sent home early if we actually have a set to do. Last week we had pretty much nothing, we finished everything by mid week and by Friday I was helping truck and price change. Next week I think we single digit hours for plano so I decided it was a good time to take vacation before inventory and back to school set.

'
 
Joined
Jun 19, 2011
Messages
113
1. Government wants money.

2. Educational institutes (business) bring in big money for government.

3. Government tells corporations no one gets a living unless invested money into a degree.

4. People pay big money for degree.

5. Government gets money.

6. Middle class is destroyed.

7. Communism.

8. The end.

This is so random, what are you talking about?

Not as many people are paying money for a worthless degree as you seem to think. Yea, the media is making a big deal about it.... but seriously, take a look around. How many people do you know who are in college? (or anything beyond cheap community college) Probably damn near no one.

Everyone has figured out that college is a scam years ago. Are there sad cases of people getting 100K in debt? Sure, but the fact is, they are the extreme minority. Ask yourself how many people you know - friends, family, coworkers - who are actually in student loan debt. Out of all the people you know, you would probably be lucky to name one. I can't name anyone.

Your logic only works if you assume that the majority of the people in this country are stupid enough to enroll in college and get in massive debt. The fact is, most of them are not doing that. Just because the media likes pumping out emotional stories like "sam castro got a law degree and is 100K in debt he will never pay back now" doesn't mean everyone is doing what he did.

College grads do absolutely nothing to benefit anyone. (generally speaking) Everyone knows this now. It isn't as a big of conspiracy as you make it out to be. People know that being a plumber, electrician, etc is the way to go and that is what everyone is doing now.

I was about to make a response to what you quoted, but your response makes a lot of assumptions that I have to respond to it instead.

By and large, for a lot of people college is a waste of money, but only if you think that degree magically grants you a job upon graduation. If you major in Philosophy or Art, don't expect whatever job you get to pay the bills.

Doctors, engineers, and lawyers are a little different story because they offer real rewards for a degree that someone could end up paying a lot for. It's a little naive to say college grads do nothing. Would you have rather been taught by a teacher in high school who they themselves just recently finished 12th grade? Would you rather drive over that bridge over the interstate if it were instead designed by Mr. Smith's industrial technology class at James Dean High School?

There are real world benefits of getting a degree, but many people fail to understand that it takes more work than getting a 3.0+ GPA to get a job.
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2013
Messages
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1. Government wants money.

2. Educational institutes (business) bring in big money for government.

3. Government tells corporations no one gets a living unless invested money into a degree.

4. People pay big money for degree.

5. Government gets money.

6. Middle class is destroyed.

7. Communism.

8. The end.

This is so random, what are you talking about?

Not as many people are paying money for a worthless degree as you seem to think. Yea, the media is making a big deal about it.... but seriously, take a look around. How many people do you know who are in college? (or anything beyond cheap community college) Probably damn near no one.

Everyone has figured out that college is a scam years ago. Are there sad cases of people getting 100K in debt? Sure, but the fact is, they are the extreme minority. Ask yourself how many people you know - friends, family, coworkers - who are actually in student loan debt. Out of all the people you know, you would probably be lucky to name one. I can't name anyone.

Your logic only works if you assume that the majority of the people in this country are stupid enough to enroll in college and get in massive debt. The fact is, most of them are not doing that. Just because the media likes pumping out emotional stories like "sam castro got a law degree and is 100K in debt he will never pay back now" doesn't mean everyone is doing what he did.

College grads do absolutely nothing to benefit anyone. (generally speaking) Everyone knows this now. It isn't as a big of conspiracy as you make it out to be. People know that being a plumber, electrician, etc is the way to go and that is what everyone is doing now.

Actually us as Americans it is BS that we should pay to continue our education. The government should make it free or a hell of a lot cheaper this country is falling behind in education while other countries make college free we increase our tuition rates. And we wonder why are youth turn to gangs because our country makes having a better life too far out of reach for too many. Not everybody is granted scholarships or rags to riches stories. Some sadly see the realization that they are not going to be one of those kids that get a full ride to college because they know not everybody can be given money. Other countries know how important education is for their countries survival in the future so they just give it to their citizens. Where as the United States just sees the whole thing as one huge way to make money.
Instead of the government spending $60 million making dance movies that suck balls why don't they use that money to send me and a few hundred more to college for free. But they won't because most people in power are old and won't see the negative impact of them trying to stuff their own pockets rather than investing in this countries future.
Honestly this countries founders would be rolling in their graves if they could see just how low this country has sunk. Yes the founders cared about money but they didn't screw this country's citizen for that. otherwise they would have taxed the hell out of everybody too. Calling your self an American use to have pride behind it now its just a joke. I feel sorry for all the men who have died and fought in the wars believing that this country would remain great.
The saying " ask not what your country can do for you, but what can you do for your country ?" Needs to be rearranged to say ask not what you could do for your country, but what could your country do for you? And they could be doing a lot more for its people than they are.
 
Joined
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Messages
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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #23
1. Government wants money.

2. Educational institutes (business) bring in big money for government.

3. Government tells corporations no one gets a living unless invested money into a degree.

4. People pay big money for degree.

5. Government gets money.

6. Middle class is destroyed.

7. Communism.

8. The end.

This is so random, what are you talking about?

Not as many people are paying money for a worthless degree as you seem to think. Yea, the media is making a big deal about it.... but seriously, take a look around. How many people do you know who are in college? (or anything beyond cheap community college) Probably damn near no one.

Everyone has figured out that college is a scam years ago. Are there sad cases of people getting 100K in debt? Sure, but the fact is, they are the extreme minority. Ask yourself how many people you know - friends, family, coworkers - who are actually in student loan debt. Out of all the people you know, you would probably be lucky to name one. I can't name anyone.

Your logic only works if you assume that the majority of the people in this country are stupid enough to enroll in college and get in massive debt. The fact is, most of them are not doing that. Just because the media likes pumping out emotional stories like "sam castro got a law degree and is 100K in debt he will never pay back now" doesn't mean everyone is doing what he did.

College grads do absolutely nothing to benefit anyone. (generally speaking) Everyone knows this now. It isn't as a big of conspiracy as you make it out to be. People know that being a plumber, electrician, etc is the way to go and that is what everyone is doing now.

Actually us as Americans it is BS that we should pay to continue our education. The government should make it free or a hell of a lot cheaper this country is falling behind in education while other countries make college free we increase our tuition rates. And we wonder why are youth turn to gangs because our country makes having a better life too far out of reach for too many. Not everybody is granted scholarships or rags to riches stories. Some sadly see the realization that they are not going to be one of those kids that get a full ride to college because they know not everybody can be given money. Other countries know how important education is for their countries survival in the future so they just give it to their citizens. Where as the United States just sees the whole thing as one huge way to make money.
Instead of the government spending $60 million making dance movies that suck balls why don't they use that money to send me and a few hundred more to college for free. But they won't because most people in power are old and won't see the negative impact of them trying to stuff their own pockets rather than investing in this countries future.
Honestly this countries founders would be rolling in their graves if they could see just how low this country has sunk. Yes the founders cared about money but they didn't screw this country's citizen for that. otherwise they would have taxed the hell out of everybody too. Calling your self an American use to have pride behind it now its just a joke. I feel sorry for all the men who have died and fought in the wars believing that this country would remain great.
The saying " ask not what your country can do for you, but what can you do for your country ?" Needs to be rearranged to say ask not what you could do for your country, but what could your country do for you? And they could be doing a lot more for its people than they are.

Look, this is not politically correct so no one will say it, but I will.

The fact is, not everyone has the level of intelligence necessary to get a college education. People don't want to hear that because it means some people will be left behind, and everyone wants to hear that "everyone is a winner". The fact is, that's just not consistent with the real world.

So what has happened? The educational world is now getting full of scam institutions (like the University of Phoenix and Everest) that are basically diploma mills. In other words, they have no admission standards, the material is in many cases dumbed down to junior high level, and they specialize in extracting the maximum money they can from people who have no business in college to begin with. (hence, no admission standards)

Dumbing down the material and creating schools with zero admission standards is not going to produce college educated people.... it is only going to produce people who *think* they are college educated, but because they really aren't, they still can't get a job that truly requires the same kind of college education people are getting at schools with serious standards that won't even let you in the door if you don't have what it takes on day one. The worst part of all? These for-profit schools (phoenix, devry, everest, etc.) are putting people tens of thousands of dollars in debt for essentially a worthless "degree".

So the simple, non-poltical correct answer here, is that college is not for everyone! The people who aren't mentally there can go to trade schools or something else. There is nothing shameful about that despite what the media tells you. The answer is not to "make it available to everyone" - the answer is to make it exactly like it was for the past 300+ years until the last 20 years when "for profit" colleges started to appear on the stock market. (red flag number one - your "college" is on the stock market)

Every college should have admission standards. If can't pull the needed score on the SAT/ACT/AP classes.... well, that's life. Everyone doesn't win. Everyone doesn't get a gold medal. That is real life. Giving you a sub-standard "degree" at $80,000 in debt so you can feel good and get your gold medal doesn't do anyone any favors.

There are people out there who literally believe that it would be a good idea for 100% of the population to have a 4 year (or higher) college degree. I am sorry, that is not a good idea. Again, not politically correct, but true. This is what is wrong with the high schools. They are so dumbed down that any idiot who shows up to school and does absolutely nothing gets a high school diploma. That is the truth, because the whole idea now is that "everyone" should have a high school diploma no matter what. And people wonder why high school diplomas are now worthless?

So the solution is to now do the same thing with college so that "everyone" gets a degree.... so they are worthless too? Sorry, the solution is to call a spade a spade. If someone doesn't have what it takes, they don't win. They don't get the award. Doesn't mean they can't do something else with their life. Not everyone is cut out to be in the NFL. Not everyone is cut out to be a medical doctor. Doesn't mean they can't do something else that is important to society.
 

commiecorvus

Former Signing Ninja
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TL;DR The world needs ditch diggers, too.

True but ditch diggers need to be able to feed their families and have health insurance etc.
What's happened is society has some how decided that the only people who deserve a decent wage are the ones with a college degree.
If you work with your hands, organize and ask for a living wage, you're somehow screwing people.
G-d forbid you work in retail.
 
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