Cleaning house of Team Leads

Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Messages
246
#1
Note: If this is a situation that MAY expose my store location, please delete this post.

So.
I was told today that they are getting rid of all the TL's that don't have degrees.
As far as I know, they already gave two of my GSTLS (both have been with Target for over 20 years), and a sales floor TL the "two week notice"
They were told "step down or leave"

I heard this from two different people who don't know eachother with different sources.

One source heard it from the actual GSTL and the other heard it from a Sr TL.

Is this....fair? Both GSTL's are old and this is the only job they can get. NO ONE will hire two old, broken ladies.

I don't know if it's my store, which seems, lately, to be the opening to Hell, or if other stores have heard this talk.

I dunno.
 

redeye58

Hasta Ba Rista, Baby!
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
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18,117
#2
At the very least, they should've been grandfathered in (no pun intended whatsoever).
At the very worst, also contingent on state labor laws, this could result in a class-action lawsuit.
Geez, spot....give us some breathing room in between these PR debacles!
 
Joined
Sep 23, 2011
Messages
287
#3
That seems ridiculous. I understand wanting ETLs to have degrees, I think some exceptions should be made, but I get the thought process. TLs though? You're talking about an hourly position that... I don't want to be too specific, but it isn't exactly a job that's going to support a family of 4. A TL level position should not require, or even expect, a degree. Would it be nice if all TLs had degrees? Sure, but it's ridiculous to think you're going to get a bunch of college grads at that pay level, or at least ridiculous to think you'll retain them.
 
OP
OP
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#4
If this is true, *knock on wood it's not* then we are screwed. Simply put. We have a newer GSTL who is in school for a degree so I don't know if they are gonna keep her or shove her to the side too.

I'm really hoping this is a nasty rumor. I don't want to train my GSTL's -____-
 

redeye58

Hasta Ba Rista, Baby!
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
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18,117
#5
I could see the requirement for an ETL, I could ever understand a requirement that a TL have 'some' college or be working toward a degree if they hoped to advance to ETL but, as nater pointed out, it would be delusional to expect a college grad to settle for a TL for even a little while for that kind of crap pay.
And they sure as hell should NOT attempt to make it retroactive.
I smell litigiousness....
 
OP
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#6
I'll keep you guys updated. I only came across this cuz I was scheduled as Guest Service and one of the GSTL's "called out" and I was shoved to GSA, and that's when I found out that they were doing this. Then on lunch I had another person mention it.
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
825
#7
Hi everyone -

I have been a long time reader and have hesitated to post because I fear Target potentially retaliating for posting on here.

Still I saw this thread and felt I had to post because it is simply too important not to.

I can confirm that this is in fact true. I don't know if it is company wide or only a certain stores. (maybe by chance the OP and I work at the same store and it is only our store for all I know)

I started out as a team member six years ago then went from specialist to GSTL, and I am now a hardlines TL.

Last week I was pulled in to clerical by the ETL-HR and was abruptly told that Target policy is now that all TLs must have a college degree. She even printed out a job requirement list for TL's from workbench and sure enough there it was. Basically she told me that I was set to be demoted after 4th quarter.

Well the joke was on her because I actually do have a college degree - I just never felt the need to run around and rub it in everyone's face like an ETL. She seemed shocked when I told her.

Only problem? It is an Associate's degree - not a bachelors which is required for ETL. (but again, I am a TL not an ETL)

Basically she told me the guidelines she received were "not clear" and that she wasn't sure if an Associate's degree would work.... so basically she said my status is pending until she finds out. I was required to have my college transcript sent to her in the meantime. (yes, I actually had to order the transcript and have it directly mailed to her. She told me they would not accept anything else or any other method of delivery) So now my college transcript is in the mail to my store.

Now getting down to why I felt the need to post in this thread. Basically right now I am terrified for my job. I am hoping to god that an Associate's degree counts. The paper she printed out only said "college degree".... It didn't specify that it had to be a bachelors specifically.

I would very much like to ask if there are any other TLs on here who have been told this - and will an Associate's degree work to stay a TL?

I am just highly annoyed that she can't give me a straight answer right now because I would rather just like to know so I can start looking for a new job already if that's the way it is going to be.
 
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commiecorvus

Former Signing Ninja
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Jun 10, 2011
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15,968
#8
Hi everyone -

I have been a long time reader and have hesitated to post because I fear Target potentially retaliating for posting on here.

Still I saw this thread and felt I had to post because it is simply too important not to.

I can confirm that this is in fact true. I don't know if it is company wide or only a certain stores. (maybe by chance the OP and I work at the same store and it is only our store for all I know)

I started out as a team member six years ago then went from specialist to GSTL, and I am now a hardlines TL.

Last week I was pulled in to clerical by the ETL-HR and was abruptly told that Target policy is now that all TLs must have a college degree. She even printed out a job requirement list for TL's from workbench and sure enough there it was. Basically she told me that I was set to be demoted after 4th quarter.

Well the joke was on her because I actually do have a college degree - I just never felt the need to run around and rub it in everyone's face like an ETL. She seemed shocked when I told her.

Only problem? It is an Associate's degree - not a bachelors which is required for ETL. (but again, I am a TL not an ETL)

Basically she told me the guidelines she received were "not clear" and that she wasn't sure if an Associate's degree would work.... so basically she said my status is pending until she finds out. I was required to have my college transcript sent to her in the meantime. (yes, I actually had to order the transcript and have it directly mailed to her. She told me they would not accept anything else or any other method of delivery) So now my college transcript is in the mail to my store.

Now getting down to why I felt the need to post in this thread. Basically right now I am terrified for my job. I am hoping to god that an Associate's degree counts. The paper she printed out only said "college degree".... It didn't specify that it had to be a bachelors specifically.

I would very much like to ask if there are any other TLs on here who have been told this - and will an Associate's degree work to stay a TL?

I am just highly annoyed that she can't give me a straight answer right now because I would rather just like to know so I can start looking for a new job already if that's the way it is going to be.
I would fight it if they 'decide' that it has to be a bachelors.
Unless the requirements specifically states which degree you have to have, your associates should be damn well good enough.
I suspect this is just part of their process for getting rid of all of the old timers.
I wonder what the next step will be?
Some kind of physical fitness test?
 
Joined
Jun 15, 2011
Messages
84
#11
I do not have a degree. Basically I was told some time ago that the trend was to only hire TLs who had a degree because they need for those TLs to become Exes one day. Those same Execs need to be ready to move up to something higher. My HR told me it wasn't impossible but it was harder, even with my years of experience.

The job requirements say that a degree is preferred. I have never been made to feel that my job is in jeopardy by the STL or anyone else. And if they fired someone like me based solely on the lack of paper then I'd say they'd have the makings of a huge lawsuit on their hands. Before you panic, why don't you ask your STL if you can talk to them? The kind of answer you get will determine your response. I would certainly like to know if this is true myself. I plan to investigate this.
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
825
#12
Lets say in certain stores, most TLs do not have a degree of some kind (whether they have a associates or bachelors degrees). Would they honestly fire/demote all these TLs, bring in new TLs and ruin how some stores on being run?

Lets say they fire/demote all but 2-3 TLs in the entire store (from a C volume store) and your store is one of the best in sales in your region. Would they really mess up the store groove/mojo just to have TLs with degrees? If yes, they should be realize they there will be a dip in sales in some areas and team moral will likely go down with some TMs
I am guessing this is why when she first told me she said I would be demoted after 4th quarter..... That way they can suck all the hard work out of us and get those holiday sales, then dump us immediately after the holidays..... That gives them a whole year to bring in and train new TLs. 1st quarter is usually slow as hell so it makes sense that is when they would hire replacement TLs.
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
825
#13
I do not have a degree. Basically I was told some time ago that the trend was to only hire TLs who had a degree because they need for those TLs to become Exes one day. Those same Execs need to be ready to move up to something higher. My HR told me it wasn't impossible but it was harder, even with my years of experience.

The job requirements say that a degree is preferred. I have never been made to feel that my job is in jeopardy by the STL or anyone else. And if they fired someone like me based solely on the lack of paper then I'd say they'd have the makings of a huge lawsuit on their hands. Before you panic, why don't you ask your STL if you can talk to them? The kind of answer you get will determine your response. I would certainly like to know if this is true myself. I plan to investigate this.
I was not told that I would be fired - just demoted. Big difference.

I hate to say it, but a company has the right to move anyone to a new position they want. It is totally different than firing someone.

If it was something that they could be sued for then why did they get away with it when they changed all specialists to a new position?

My guess is that any TLs they demote will get the same deal as specialists - keep your pay, get a new title (team member), but no raises again ever.

I can't speak for everyone else, but for me that is still a deal breaker. I get 40 hours now. If I get demoted even if I keep my pay I am likely going to be like every other TM in my store - lucky to get 20 hours.

Also I don't mean to sound egotistical, but I would not accept the lower respect and responsibility that a TM has versus a TL. I worked my ass off to become a TL, and I will not start over again as a TM. Basically it would mean I have absolutely zero chance of having a future with the company at that point.

If they tell me my AA degree is not good enough I will not even give them a two weeks notice. If they think I am going to sit around all through fourth quarter making them money knowing I will be demoted in January they are going to be in for a big surprise. I am over Toys, Electronics, MMB, Sporting Goods, Hardware/Luggage, and Seasonal. My sales are green for the year and I have my departments running like clockwork. Hope they have a fun time replacing me in time for Christmas because I plan on taking off my badge, throwing it on the ground, and walking out never to come back the second they tell me I'm getting demoted. Literally that second I am walking out the door.
 

FrontEndKnowItAll

Former PFresh Assistant
Joined
Jun 15, 2011
Messages
336
#14
Wow, at my store we still have an exec w/o a college degree, although, she is going back to school to finish up. She was grandfathered in and never had to have one. As far as TLs w/o college degrees... if this is all true there should be plenty of openings soon! :(
 
Joined
Sep 23, 2011
Messages
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#15
I was not told that I would be fired - just demoted. Big difference.

I hate to say it, but a company has the right to move anyone to a new position they want. It is totally different than firing someone.

If it was something that they could be sued for then why did they get away with it when they changed all specialists to a new position?

My guess is that any TLs they demote will get the same deal as specialists - keep your pay, get a new title (team member), but no raises again ever.

I can't speak for everyone else, but for me that is still a deal breaker. I get 40 hours now. If I get demoted even if I keep my pay I am likely going to be like every other TM in my store - lucky to get 20 hours.

Also I don't mean to sound egotistical, but I would not accept the lower respect and responsibility that a TM has versus a TL. I worked my ass off to become a TL, and I will not start over again as a TM. Basically it would mean I have absolutely zero chance of having a future with the company at that point.

If they tell me my AA degree is not good enough I will not even give them a two weeks notice. If they think I am going to sit around all through fourth quarter making them money knowing I will be demoted in January they are going to be in for a big surprise. I am over Toys, Electronics, MMB, Sporting Goods, Hardware/Luggage, and Seasonal. My sales are green for the year and I have my departments running like clockwork. Hope they have a fun time replacing me in time for Christmas because I plan on taking off my badge, throwing it on the ground, and walking out never to come back the second they tell me I'm getting demoted. Literally that second I am walking out the door.
Again, maybe this is just your store, maybe this is just your district, I don't know, but this would NEVER work. College grads (well CGs w/ a Bachelors) are NOT going to settle for TL pay. It's just not going to happen, at all, ever. Could some use it as a "transient" job? Sure. The job market is tough, working at spot for 6 months while they find a decent paying job, that's reasonable to expect, but it's bad business for spot. College grad's, outside of a few things like teacher's, expect to make roughly what the average ETL starts at. Is spot going to increase the starting TL pay to the level of an ETL? I doubt it. So why would spot assume they could retain these people?

I'm personally working towards my bachelors and I've made it very clear that when my degree is finished, I expect an ETL position quick, fast, and in a hurry. I'll give them a little time to find me a position, but they won't have much time to find me a better job, or I'll find one on my own. It's not that I don't like spot, I actually do, but at the end of the day I'm getting my degree to further my income and income potential.
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Messages
708
#17
maybe, who knows. there is definitely something up though. the way my store is pushing the college grads to be signed off at district, and no one without a degree can interview for any posted positions now. anyone else have confirmation of this?
 

FiFoMaster

The "Go-To" Guy
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
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#18
My store is doing the same thing. They started a program to introduce TM's to the TL world and only selected those capable of the job and who were or have completed a degree. Tis a shame >.<
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
825
#20
Well I have spent pretty much all damn morning texting every TL I had a phone number for to see if anyone knows anything else. Sadly no one knew any more than what I had already been told.

I did happen to find out the reason for this, however.

I texted a TL I used to work with for a few years who got promoted to Sr TL and transferred to another store. Apparently what she has been told is that the company has noticed that ever since the recession started jobs have been so hard to come by that they have been getting away with forcing new grads to accept TL spots with the promise of "eventually" moving up to ETL. She says that this has been working, and now the company has decided that they can get away with forcing college grads to accept TL spots because so many of them have not been able to find better jobs. So now HQ has directed stores to replace TLs with college grads simply because they can. The guidelines her store got say that they are absolutely forbidden to hire non-college grads for TL spots unless absolutely no one else has applied and they have already offered the TL spot to every ETL that has applied. (which she says pretty much means TL spots will never go to a non-college grad again until the economy vastly improves and they can't get away with it anymore) She also says she doesn't know the exact amount, but rumor is the new grad TL's that have been hired in the past few months have been starting at around $15/hour.

She says she has already been told the same thing they told me - demotion after 4th quarter. So she is trying to get a management job at Wal-Mart.

Still no one I asked knows if the damn degree they want can be an Associate's or if it has to be a Bachelor's. If anyone here finds out please post for others who are in a similar situation to me so we can know. My ETL-HR has not said a word to me, and I don't even know if she even got my transcript she forced me to have mailed to her.
 
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L

Ludwig3

Guest
#21
So Target wants to replace hard working TL's with fresh face college grads with no experience? What a slap in the face to anyone who has worked hard to move up. I'm sorry, just because you paid X amount for a piece a paper doesn't automatically make you the best in the field. I know TM's who could walk circles around college grads.
 
Joined
Sep 23, 2011
Messages
287
#22
So Target wants to replace hard working TL's with fresh face college grads with no experience? What a slap in the face to anyone who has worked hard to move up. I'm sorry, just because you paid X amount for a piece a paper doesn't automatically make you the best in the field. I know TM's who could walk circles around college grads.
A college degree, especially a Bachelors, is seen by employers (not just spot) as a sign of your ability to learn complex problems and dedicate yourself to a long term goal. It takes time, effort, dedication, and a certain amount of intelligence to get a Bachelors. None of that is to say it's a guarantee of success as a TL/ETL, or anything else down the road. Spot see's a college grad, even if not experienced in retail, as a great long term investment.
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
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#23
long term goal... nevermind someone who has already been doing the job perfectly for ten years. what a joke.
it takes money to get a bachelors. intelligence is marginal.
 
Joined
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#24
long term goal... nevermind someone who has already been doing the job perfectly for ten years. what a joke.
it takes money to get a bachelors. intelligence is marginal.
Perfectly? Really? Nobody does anything perfectly. Also, it takes money to get pretty much anything, so I fail to see how that's an argument for (or against) anything. What do you mean by "intelligence is marginal", you deny that a college grad, on average, is smarter than a HS grad? What about someone with a Masters? Doctorate? Obviously there are plenty of dumb, lazy, and unmotivated college grads, you can find a dozen of them w/o applying much effort at all, but you don't define the norm by the exception.

Heck spot provides money for TLs to go to college, free money, so why don't people take advantage of that? Obviously spot wants TLs to have degrees if they're providing money for it, so by not taking advantage of it, aren't they showing they're unmotivated? That they don't care to advance to ETL? Again, there are exceptions, but these are all logical assumptions and connections... ones spot has undoubtedly made.

I personally think it's a dumb strategy b/c it runs on the assumption that college grads will stick around simply b/c the economy is poor. Sure they'll take the job, but they'll jump ship the second they get a better offer, so instead of making a good long term investment, it's a set-up for high TL turnover.
 

redeye58

Hasta Ba Rista, Baby!
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
18,117
#25
Our store stands to lose more than half our TLs if this is implemented. Many of these TLs have been w/spot for 10+ yrs, trained many new TLs & kept our store green.
Meanwhile, we have a few TMs that are 50+ w/college degrees that have been passed over multiple times for TL.
Crazy logic they got here...
 
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