Archived ETL HR as LOD

Status
Not open for further replies.

zio paperone

Target Canada
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15
Hi everyone,

I was just wondering if it is best practice to have ETL HR as LOD? At my store, my ETLHR was occasionally LOD and is now LOD almost every day after the departure of our STL (and 3 other Sr/TLs).

However, recently we had an issue where LOD had to be called and told us to do something unsafe/against best practice. We refused and tried to explain to LOD how it was against best practice but they maintained their position. I then sent a help ticket which was then sent to HRBP and HQ safety and compliance of whom informed us we were correct. Yet today my ETLHR/LOD approached me and told me I shouldn't have written the help ticket against her and asked "what I was trying to prove" and I should've gone to the leadership (LOD/ETLHR) instead even though I don't have a TL or STL and ETL was away. She then said she knew I was trying to become TL and that "this is not the way leaders behave" and if I wanted to become a TL I would have to learn that (kinda seemed like a threat...?) I told ETLHR/LOD myself and others do not feel comfortable approaching as they no longer an impartial 3rd party. To which she maintained her position...

It seems like a conflict of interest to have ETL HR as a LOD especially if I have an issue with LOD surrounding store op. best practice and unsafe practices. I thought HR was supposed to be an impartial 3rd party? How was I expected to approach her, if it was with her I had the problem with? We had already tried to explain why it was against best practice and was willing to show her but they were unwilling to listen. I didn't feel like I could challenge my leader and had no where else to turn as they are HR, what was I supposed to do?
 

Cel

Jack of All Trades
Joined
Nov 16, 2013
Messages
585
Our ETL-HR does LOD shifts, but she's reasonable and sounds quite unlike yours.

There should be a sheet somewhere in your TSC (or there is in ours) that lists names and contact info for your DTL/HRBP. If you don't have an STL contacting them or calling the hotline might be your only recourses, since it sounds like she's acting STL in your store.
 
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
1,934
What did they try to make you do that was unsafe/not with BP? Sometime my store cuts corners. Like one people lifting a Team Lift item if they can to save time. If it was something along those line, I wouldn't worry to much about it.
 

zio paperone

Target Canada
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
Go to your STL.

Haven't had one for 2 months. Were told by DTL that we won't have one until July. Although I think they've realized how much our store has gone downhill and have been trying to find one faster. We've been relying on visiting STLs from a nearby store and the States to come in once a week and the "get to green team". (I'm from Target Canada btw)

Our ETL-HR does LOD shifts, but she's reasonable and sounds quite unlike yours.

There should be a sheet somewhere in your TSC (or there is in ours) that lists names and contact info for your DTL/HRBP. If you don't have an STL contacting them or calling the hotline might be your only recourses, since it sounds like she's acting STL in your store.

Unfortunately, I've been in a lot of contact with our HRBP as well as people from HQ as our store has had A LOT of problems since we opened.

Out ETL HR did LOD shifts.
You really have to get the idea that the ETL HR is some kind of impartial 3rd party out of your head.
They are there to back up the store and nothing else.

I can't tell if you're saying that (sarcastically?) or seriously but since we opened that's what we were always told HR was supposed to be. I've never worked in a place with in house HR. But she straight up lied to our HRBP when confronted with what happened so save her ass. How am I supposed to have any trust in HR after that...?

What did they try to make you do that was unsafe/not with BP? Sometime my store cuts corners. Like one people lifting a Team Lift item if they can to save time. If it was something along those line, I wouldn't worry to much about it.

2 pallets of milk/cheese/yogurt/other dairy arrived and due to miscommunication was left sitting in our backroom for 2 hours without being put into the cooler. Called LOD to let them know what happened and for approval to sent it to reverse log for processing. They said no and to push it to the floor. However it was out of temp for 2 hours (our backroom is quite warm for some reason) and the temperature was too high when we checked it.
 

ExpertTL

Senior Team Leader
Joined
Apr 1, 2014
Messages
56
The funny thing about this is that maybe 3-4 years ago (can't really remember), you did not have the ETL-AP or ETL-HR doing LOD shifts per best practice. Mainly because it could be conceived as a conflict of interest in doing their normal core roles. Of course, with all of the changes that Target has gone through, they decided that they could get more out of the HR/AP by having them doing LOD shifts. The best practice is that the HR/AP still only do 1-2 LOD shifts per week in higher volume stores. In ULV stores, I know that the AP/HR have to do just as many LOD shifts as the others. I have also seen in super high volume stores that there are enough ETLs/SrTLs where the HR doesn't do any LOD shifts on a normal rotation.

In your situation though, if you do not have an STL, the next person on the chain of command for HR purposes would be the HRBP or the DTL. Now I'm sure your HR is just pissed because you went over their head with regards to this situation, but it's kinda her fault for telling you to push that product on the floor which would not be safe and could be a liability.
 

commiecorvus

Former Signing Ninja
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
18,055
Sorry, but I wasn't being sarcastic.
Spot sells the idea that HR is there for you but they are there for the company and they will protect the store at all costs.
Don't trust her.
Some stores are better than others (for all of you who want to come on and defend your HR ETL) but this is the case for all stores.

It sounds like you were stuck in a bad position and it's going to continue.
Document everything, if it is constant and not just this one time than call the hotline.
Make sure you have dates and times, keep it dispassionate and professional.
Leave your feelings out of it, only give them the information they need to deal with the problem.

Good luck, I'm sorry that this happened but it will probably get worse before it gets better.
They are probably going to go after you for going over their head.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
1,934
2 pallets of milk/cheese/yogurt/other dairy arrived and due to miscommunication was left sitting in our backroom for 2 hours without being put into the cooler. Called LOD to let them know what happened and for approval to sent it to reverse log for processing. They said no and to push it to the floor. However it was out of temp for 2 hours (our backroom is quite warm for some reason) and the temperature was too high when we checked it.
Hmm. I'm kinda mixed on this. I agree that 2 hours outta temp is a little long but you have to factor in that that big pallet of wrapped items like that will usually stay cool enough way past 2 hours. It wasn't a freezer pallet where something could melt. Most dairy cooler items are able to sit out of temp (irl) for way past that. Butter, Cheese, Yogurt, OJ and other juices can all be cooled back down without damage to the product or consumer.

You were right to question it, but I wouldn't worry so much unless it was ice pops or something for freezer, or Milk. Everything else is good to sit out as far as safety goes.
The best way to prevent this is to keep your head down, become a TL, and then you have the power to fix it.
 

zio paperone

Target Canada
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
You were right to question it, but I wouldn't worry so much unless it was ice pops or something for freezer, or Milk. Everything else is good to sit out as far as safety goes.
The best way to prevent this is to keep your head down, become a TL, and then you have the power to fix it.

It was one pallet of milk and the other pallet half milk/cream with other half miscellaneous other dairy items. We also checked the temperature with a thermometer and it was above acceptable levels. It was 6-7 Celsius (43-45F?) and I know bacteria growth starts at 8c (46F) while acceptable storage level is 4-5c (39-41F)
 

redeye58

Hasta Ba Rista, Baby!
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
19,905
Yep, anything above 40F is in the danger zone.
When one of our milk coolers (single) started acting up, we noticed immediately that the temp was up & the jugs were getting tepid. Fortunately we were able to move everything to the double cooler until it was fixed. There's a reason we check temps twice daily.
If you'd pushed the milk, you'd have guests for days after bringing back 'spoiled' milk.
 

paidtosmile

Former Team Leader
Joined
May 19, 2013
Messages
744
When my ETL-HR is LOD, he doesn't care about anything and he lets whatever TL is present oversee everything.

Thats how ours is too. She makes sure to have the most micro-managing and hyperactive team lead run the floor and she basically stays invisible until I need my start funds. On the rare occasion she's opening LOD, the majority of the time the GE or Sr.TL's answer LOD calls.
 
Joined
May 21, 2014
Messages
11
@paidtosmile I wish my ETL-HR was like that on her LOD shift when I'm GSTL. I am just constantly harassed about REDCards counts every 30 mins and asking to give up cashiers to work on go backs.
 

ETHICS DEMANDER

veteran team member/TL & ETL demolisher
Joined
May 18, 2014
Messages
107
I'm not sure about canada's buisness legal system but I would suggest writing the stuff down (names,dates,witnesses,what happenned,and what you did to resolve it). I have gotten rid of bad eggs this way by contacting ethics hotline and informing them if I don't see results ill be contacting OSHA or department of labor just be sure not to leave your name otherwise you could have some payback
 

zio paperone

Target Canada
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
When my ETL-HR is LOD, he doesn't care about anything and he lets whatever TL is present oversee everything.

I wish our ETL HR was like that. When she is ETL she is constantly walking the store going between depts. (mainly receiving and consumables since we are the "troublemakers" read: we send a lot of complaints to HRBP/DTL) Asking what we are doing, how long it will take, what our goals are for the next hour and asking for us to do side projects. We've talked with people in other departments and no other LOD does anything like that. At most, other LODs pop by and just say hi but most of the time you don't even see them until you need their help.

I'm not sure about canada's buisness legal system but I would suggest writing the stuff down (names,dates,witnesses,what happenned,and what you did to resolve it). I have gotten rid of bad eggs this way by contacting ethics hotline and informing them if I don't see results ill be contacting OSHA or department of labor just be sure not to leave your name otherwise you could have some payback

That is usually what I do anyway. I did that for our STL when he was making poor decisions and sent them off (what position is higher than DTL? A few ETLs, TLs and TMs had sent letters and was only told they were going to our DTL's boss) I was very much considering contacting our local government inspector (although I once said something was a safety concern and if we were inspected we would fail and the ETL HR replied she didn't care she would just take the fine)

FOLLOW UP: The department's hours have been cut to 27hrs (total; 15 for me, 12 for the other TM that refused, there are only 2 of us) even though we have raised sales to (up to) 50% of stores sales and are the only department to be "green" in guest survey scores (store average 50%, we're 78% and the main complaint in our dept. is that there is no one to help, yeah 'cause consumables only works 8-12).

Also, my ETL refused to give me a recommendation for TL saying she discussed it with the other ETLs and I don't take enough of a leadership role in the store even though A. ETLHR and my new ETL are BFFs (I've also sent complaints against both), while the other 2 ETLs in the store were all for it, so she lied or by other ETLs she meant ETLHR. (Backroom ETL was the one that told me to apply for TL (ans has since told me to transfer to backroom so he can give me the recommendation) and ETL softlines thinks I'm already TL and still walkies for CTL/TL zio paperone) B. I have been "acting CTL" since since the hardlines TL that 'looks after' (read: says hi once and awhile, read issue here: http://thebreakroom.org/index.php?threads/question-re-market.7894/) has been on leave since early April but in reality I've been acting CTL since we opened. C. Before working for Target I was a food dept. manager at 2 places and they know that.

TL;DR: I've given up on Target. Effective yesterday I returned to old job and set my hours to only work on my days off/before my shift 'cause I like extra money. Was very much considering giving a big FU to Target and just leaving without notice as no one else is trained in the dept. and no one else knows how to order and all the other CTL stuff I do.
 
Last edited:

ETHICS DEMANDER

veteran team member/TL & ETL demolisher
Joined
May 18, 2014
Messages
107
District team lead isn't what you want.. district hr lead is what you want.. but to answer your question of who is above district level RDL... or RHR (the "R". Stands for Regional)
 

ETHICS DEMANDER

veteran team member/TL & ETL demolisher
Joined
May 18, 2014
Messages
107
but here's the thing.. if etl hr is part of the problem the word stops there.. I suggest contacting another store's ETL-HR for the contact numbers you need but don't leave your name or store info so it can't be traced back to you
 

paidtosmile

Former Team Leader
Joined
May 19, 2013
Messages
744
@paidtosmile I wish my ETL-HR was like that on her LOD shift when I'm GSTL. I am just constantly harassed about REDCards counts every 30 mins and asking to give up cashiers to work on go backs.

Oddly enough, our ETL-HR is the only one that doesn't do that. The rest of the LOD's are constantly pulling me aside asking me to give up my cashiers for sales floor stuff all the way across the store. I finally put my foot down and told them off about it. Now I always make sure to have go-to projects i can give front end team members if there is downtime. Nobody really understands how the front end works unless you've worked up there for extended periods of time, and because of that we're always thrown under the bus as the last & least important workcenter. Even though the current thing all of my ETL's are raving about is the importance of creating a great last impression. Funny, it's hard to do that when you can't even afford to fully staff the front end.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top