How are POGS designed anyway?

[FlowTeamChick]

After working on so many POGs just lately and noticing how goofy they can be, I'm wondering how they're figured out. OTC uses a lot of those self-pusher contraptions and when I was setting yesterday, I had a couple of places in one POG were I set three facings instead of the two indicated on the label strips. Leaving it with only two would have left the product with so much wiggle room that the boxes would pop out of the fixture if not placed exactly right. First guest to come along and touch one of them and boing! They'd all land on the floor.
And then other times, like with a certain shelf with toothpaste boxes, it's so tight all the way across, it's hard to fit everything where it's supposed to go.
When I first started with Target 10+ years ago, the label strips lined up with the product almost perfectly almost all the time. I was told that these things were figured out by real people using real product on real shelves, but now it's done by computer. Which makes sense to me - input slightly wrong dimensions and the mistakes can accumulate.
The self-pusher fixtures take up space, making it so usually one less of a product will fit on the shelf. If the POG tells me to use those fixtures, it *should* take that into account when the shelf capacity is provided. It doesn't and so eventually I have to fix SFQs all over the place. Same for pegs, although the fixture can't be blamed there - the POG says 20 bags of cough drops will fit when it's really maybe only 8. That's a crazy difference. But it's consistently way off until there's one that's not.
Thoughts? Other than "this is just one of those mysteries of Target that will never be solved."

 

[SigningLady]

Pogs are all built using a computer program (JDA comes to mind but there are also others). Occasionally they are built physically first using actual product or sample boxes.

Pogs using pushers should account for those, but many times the people creating these Pogs will sacrifice fit to ensure they are not losing a facing of an item to keep the assortment competitive. My husband does this for a living (not directly for Target) and will often ask for my "expert" opinion on what will/won't work at the store level on several of these kinds of issues

Other issues that occur often is items imaged incorrectly at HQ or dimensions of items entered into their system wrong.

As far as adding facings where they clearly will fit, it is a deliberate choice sometimes depending on what volume store you are. Higher volume gets more facings, lower volume gets less.

Another factor is that most of the people making Pogs the last couple years have been doing so from home so they haven't been able to "real world" test them at HQ like they did before the pandemic.

 

[swordfishtrombon]

Pogs are all built using a computer program (JDA comes to mind but there are also others). Occasionally they are built physically first using actual product or sample boxes.

Pogs using pushers should account for those, but many times the people creating these Pogs will sacrifice fit to ensure they are not losing a facing of an item to keep the assortment competitive. My husband does this for a living (not directly for Target) and will often ask for my "expert" opinion on what will/won't work at the store level on several of these kinds of issues

Other issues that occur often is items imaged incorrectly at HQ or dimensions of items entered into their system wrong.

As far as adding facings where they clearly will fit, it is a deliberate choice sometimes depending on what volume store you are. Higher volume gets more facings, lower volume gets less.

Another factor is that most of the people making Pogs the last couple years have been doing so from home so they haven't been able to "real world" test them at HQ like they did before the pandemic.

Do you know why so many POGs recently seem to not take into account product that comes in pegged vs stuff that has to be set on a shelf? I've noticed it most often in toys and sporting goods but in the past few months a lot of POGs have called for pegs for items that don't come with anything to hang them on, leading to either having to put do-its on all the items that come off the truck (a lot of the times this isn't even a realistic solution because they're heavy products) or having to modify the POG somehow with a shelf. The worst one I noticed recently was a sporting goods POG that has water guns that come with holes to hang them on all on shelves while the sun squad floats that come in boxes with no way to hang are supposed to be hung on pegs.

 

[SigningLady]

Do you know why so many POGs recently seem to not take into account product that comes in pegged vs stuff that has to be set on a shelf? I've noticed it most often in toys and sporting goods but in the past few months a lot of POGs have called for pegs for items that don't come with anything to hang them on, leading to either having to put do-its on all the items that come off the truck (a lot of the times this isn't even a realistic solution because they're heavy products) or having to modify the POG somehow with a shelf. The worst one I noticed recently was a sporting goods POG that has water guns that come with holes to hang them on all on shelves while the sun squad floats that come in boxes with no way to hang are supposed to be hung on pegs.

Best answer I can give for this: because whatever sample or information the person who made the pog had indicated it would have a hang tag on it. I've called out my husband more than once on his Pogs for this exact thing and he always tells me HQ said it would hang or the sample he had had a hang tag on it. Once he could follow up to get it fixed, other times not.

 

[TargetsDaddy]

One thing I hate is when packages get redesigned and now you have 2 different sizes causing fitment issues.

 

[commiecorvus]

My favorite story on how POGs are designed is about the time I was working at Borders Books and Music.
I was setting a POG for their Paperchase line that was two bookcases across and included notebooks, books, and an assortment of gifty items.
Nothing would fit right, no matter how I put it on the shelves.
But I had a picture showing that it did.
WTF was going on?
It dawned on me that they had done each set of bookshelves, photographed them, and spliced the two pictures together, dispite the fact that it didn't take into account the sides of either bookcase.
The POG was literally impossible.
That's how they design POGs

 

[nicnispa106]

My sister-in-law does this for a different company. She says she sometimes has to make the pog before packaging is finalized or they change the package after the fact.

 

[GRC]

I just wish whoever/whatever is designing them would realize that taller items can't go all the way to the back of the shelf if they're on the gap between 2 shelves. It's especially bad in the cereal section, we have multiple kinds that we can only fit 2 or 3 on the shelf because the triangular piece of the shelf above gets in the way, and based on the POG's capacity it's clear whoever made it has no idea it's there.

 

[Sparkle5]

I just wish whoever/whatever is designing them would realize that taller items can't go all the way to the back of the shelf if they're on the gap between 2 shelves. It's especially bad in the cereal section, we have multiple kinds that we can only fit 2 or 3 on the shelf because the triangular piece of the shelf above gets in the way, and based on the POG's capacity it's clear whoever made it has no idea it's there.

Same batch of planners that are better known as " city planners". Definitely don't drive the streets they design. All these glitches trying to just stock shelves I ve noticed too here. I v gotten alot of information from this site before my official training that tells me doing "sets" requires some thinking on your feet but that itself requires experience and tm s can't just decide to remove or add a facing without approval?? Oh geeze I m still nervous for this new assignment.

 

[SigningLady]

Same batch of planners that are better known as " city planners". Definitely don't drive the streets they design. All these glitches trying to just stock shelves I ve noticed too here. I v gotten alot of information from this site before my official training that tells me doing "sets" requires some thinking on your feet but that itself requires experience and tm s can't just decide to remove or add a facing without approval?? Oh geeze I m still nervous for this new assignment.

You don't need to ask for approval to change these things. As long as you adjust the SFC/SFQ accordingly for each thing you change.

Thinking on your feet helps a ton and it gets easier the more you do it.

 

[TargetsDaddy]

Best answer I can give for this: because whatever sample or information the person who made the pog had indicated it would have a hang tag on it. I've called out my husband more than once on his Pogs for this exact thing and he always tells me HQ said it would hang or the sample he had had a hang tag on it. Once he could follow up to get it fixed, other times not.

I want your husband job. What's the position called? After doing presentation for so many years I need to settle into an office position, my back is starting to give 😔

 

[SigningLady]

I want your husband job. What's the position called? After doing presentation for so many years I need to settle into an office position, my back is starting to give 😔

He's in category management.

 

[seasonaldude]

Drunk monkeys flinging shit at the wall.

 

[Big Blue]

Something super odd I've noticed on some salesplanners, usually in domestics, is that item 1-1-2 will always be placed on the far right of the shelf, even if there are other items. So if you're looking at the schematic page, the bottom shelf will go 1-1-1, 1-1-3, 1-1-4, 1-1-2. You might say well why not just put it in numerical order anyway? I'm sure a lot of people do because they didn't even notice, but it's silly to do that because the 1-1-2 item will be king size sheets, which would be on the right. Not all domestic planners are like this, but it's the only area where I've noticed it. Anyone have any ideas why this might be a thing?

 

[Sparkle5]

This is curious since the few aisles I v pushed in that were just set have ALOT of fit errors. I don't know how someone could think they completed something where the product doesn't even fit. Other than they are NOT the ones pushing the product.

 

[SigningLady]

This is curious since the few aisles I v pushed in that were just set have ALOT of fit errors. I don't know how someone could think they completed something where the product doesn't even fit. Other than they are NOT the ones pushing the product.

Some of them just figure we'll fix it at the store rather than fixing it themselves (which actually takes less time 🙄).... if they even notice it at all.

 

[dannyy315]

I don't know if this is how Target does it, but I know there are companies that specialize in planogram designing, they they work with a variety of retailers. My cousin works for one.

 

[FlowTeamChick]

I just wish whoever/whatever is designing them would realize that taller items can't go all the way to the back of the shelf if they're on the gap between 2 shelves. It's especially bad in the cereal section, we have multiple kinds that we can only fit 2 or 3 on the shelf because the triangular piece of the shelf above gets in the way, and based on the POG's capacity it's clear whoever made it has no idea it's there.

Yes, and then some nitwit TM comes along and smashes boxes in there anyway. Can't tell you how many boxes I've had to defect out or mark down for exactly this reason.

 

[FlowTeamChick]

tm s can't just decide to remove or add a facing without approval??

I'd say this to someone working on their first few sets, but if you're a DBO who knows their area well, this is just the kind of thing you ARE allowed to do. Of course, I can't just remove a product entirely (as much as I'd like to for certain weight loss products because I think they're unhealthy), but making a shelf work better is a good thing.

 

[rd123]

As far as end caps , we are allowed to make some practical changes to the pog setup. What’s really frustrating is the label strips for revisions especially the snack and beverage ones . Some are impossible to fit the product while others leave lot of gaps and pops out the products .
we are always struggling to find enough end caps shelves as seasonal grabbed almost every thing and now a days most pog needs 6-7 shelves per endcap 😓

 

[Sarakiel]

Guess I'll also chime in here: The strips that come out are also run through their own separate program that is feed all the data regarding dimension, price points, position, etc and is then converted into a PDF format that is 48" long and 4 sheets high (imagine stacking 4 of the sheets out of the box above each other and that's how each section comes out). The image and then sent into our Trivors that are then printed out and processed with the perforations and cuts applied at later stages at high speeds all on a single roll.

How is this relevant? Well the old application that's used to convert the item data fed by IMN into the positions on the strips isn't always right. In fact the application isn't even in-house one but Xerox's. That's changing very very soon. Hardlinesmaster and Signinglady have been able to preview the new strips and they are looking very good so far. Keep in mind the new application has been re-built from the ground up, so any issues you see in the future should be addressable finally instead of relying on a vendor partner to try and resolve it.

So in regards of the weird position "skipping" on some of the strips coming out, it should be fixed in the upcoming switch to the in-house program.

Do remember that some weird 'stacked' barcodes of multiple items close to each other were intentional by design with the old application. They are trying out different formats to see if they can fix that for the new generation coming out, we shall see in the near the summer.

Right now they are working on all of the cutsheets and are on ................. *drumroll* reverse set locations printed on the back. However for this change they need to reach out to Store Ops to ask if enough stores would use the reverse side of these to justify the cost of a new cardstock (since the current sheets both we and store level use are single sided). There should be a survey coming out to stores asking about this very soon. PLEASE RESPOND TO THE SURVEY, YOUR RESPONSES DIRECTLY WILL DETERMINE IF REVERSE SIDE CUTSHEETS ARE INCLUDED OR LEFT OUT.

 

[seasonaldude]

How would we set in reverse without having it printed on the back? I hope I'm misreading because even the possibility of no reverse is terrifying. Half the aisles in the store would have to flip everything in their next revision or transition.

 

[TargetsDaddy]

How would we set in reverse without having it printed on the back? I hope I'm misreading because even the possibility of no reverse is terrifying. Half the aisles in the store would have to flip everything in their next revision or transition.

I think they meant the individual peg labels not the strips. From what I know, standard peg labels aren't that big of a deal with reverse aisles. The only issue I have are the display labels that are sent only standard because they are on shelves. If it's reverse set and the display is cut off into the next section, I would have to reprint the all labels or print on a portable printer cause the schematic will be slightly off.

I still don't know why they haven't included display labels when printing out pegs and price accuracy labels. We would save so much paper and toners. If I just need 5 display labels for toothbrush aisle, I would either have to print the whole POG or print them individually for a hip printer. Please fix this.

 

[seasonaldude]

I think they meant the individual peg labels not the strips. From what I know, standard peg labels aren't that big of a deal with reverse aisles. The only issue I have are the display labels that are sent only standard because they are on shelves. If it's reverse set and the display is cut off into the next section, I would have to reprint the all labels or print on a portable printer cause the schematic will be slightly off.

I still don't know why they haven't included display labels when printing out pegs and price accuracy labels. We would save so much paper and toners. If I just need 5 display labels for toothbrush aisle, I would either have to print the whole POG or print them individually for a hip printer. Please fix this.

Also, can we please get display labels that tell us what the actual item is when we scan the label. And while we are at it, when we get price change for the item can we get a price change label for the display too?

 

[SigningLady]

Also, can we please get display labels that tell us what the actual item is when we scan the label. And while we are at it, when we get price change for the item can we get a price change label for the display too?

This wouldn't really work though because then you wouldn't be able to scan the display DPCI so if you were missing it you couldn't audit it or locate it in the back.

Many display labels do give the sellable DPCI in the item description on the label so you know which item it is.

I do like the idea of a price change label for displays. It would save time some time when resetting, though I would probably still scan everything anyway because I never trust what happens in an aisle after I fix it.