i miss old folks. just a rant.

Joined
Jun 7, 2011
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#1
yesterday my stl and i were talking about the toys reset. i asked him to give me some inspirational words. i had a really large workload ahead and needed something peppy to share with my team. something funny to get them going, get things off to a good start.
he looks at me and says something along the lines of "we just recognized you in the huddle, wasn't that enough?". so... just for reference "recognition isn't the same as inspiration, and there are not enough great team cards in target's koolaid pitcher to make me feel inspired" is not the correct answer.
i miss our older managers with experience. they could give you a "win one for the gipper" speech that would put you at the top of the world and make the entire team feel glad to be working at target. now all we got is 25 yr olds who think if they come to the floor and flex box stock in an empty 4 ft space they are transition gods. if they can find their way to the floor, that is.

/end rant.
 

commiecorvus

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#3
Very well put.
I keep trying to make excuses for them, youth, lack of experience, spot not training them in the right kind of people skills, etc. but it's still very frustrating.
Because I told you to only goes so far.
 

Rock Lobster

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#4
I like having those leaders in the building that have more years with Target than the current leaders have been alive! Seniority doesn't necessarily always mean they are the best, but in most cases someone hasn't been a leader for 30 years if they don't bring some real leadership to the table!
 

Lady Fitting Room

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#5
^Hey Rock, I see you've been made a mod; congrats! :thumbsup: I remember you'd just gotten the role on the old .org site before it went down.

To reply to the thread topic: I think that Target's current trend of staffing their stores with fresh-out-of-college grads rather than experienced staff will be their eventual downfall. We have several ETLs at my store who are so clueless it's painful. Add that to the fact that my STL doesn't know the front end from her back end, and you've got yourself one very unsatisfying place to work. That's why I put in my two weeks: I just couldn't take it anymore.
 

Rock Lobster

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#6
^Hey Rock, I see you've been made a mod; congrats! :thumbsup: I remember you'd just gotten the role on the old .org site before it went down.

To reply to the thread topic: I think that Target's current trend of staffing their stores with fresh-out-of-college grads rather than experienced staff will be their eventual downfall. We have several ETLs at my store who are so clueless it's painful. Add that to the fact that my STL doesn't know the front end from her back end, and you've got yourself one very unsatisfying place to work. That's why I put in my two weeks: I just couldn't take it anymore.
Thanks!

Yes, I believe the same thing you do with our staffing! A company doesn't stand a chance when your loyal employees have a very very slim shot of advancing and someone off the street can beat them out 10 to 1... Imagine if the ETL teams were balanced between newbies and half strong performing promoted TLs who made it to the ETL level (instead of a tiny fraction rarely seen)... A majority of the problems in stores right now wouldn't be happening!
 
Joined
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#7
I like having those leaders in the building that have more years with Target than the current leaders have been alive! Seniority doesn't necessarily always mean they are the best, but in most cases someone hasn't been a leader for 30 years if they don't bring some real leadership to the table!
WOW! Best and most accurate post I've seen concerning our leadership in the stores. Thanks, Rock!

We have several ETLs at my store who are so clueless it's painful.
LFR, sad to say but this seems to be a chain wide problem. :disappoint: Our LOD-GE had no clue how to run photo lab. His excuse being he didn't think it was important enough. He has been with the company about two years and fresh out of college. As I recall our photo lab person called in that day.
 

Lady Fitting Room

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#8
LFR, sad to say but this seems to be a chain wide problem. :disappoint: Our LOD-GE had no clue how to run photo lab. His excuse being he didn't think it was important enough. He has been with the company about two years and fresh out of college. As I recall our photo lab person called in that day.
Our current ETL-GE is not trained in Guest Service, Photo, Food Ave, or as Guest Attendant, and she can barely cashier. :facepalm:
 

mrknownothing

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#9
We have a new STL and Hardlines ETL, and they know less about how the store works than a random guest off the street. The old ETL-HL was a huge tool, but at least he was competent, and we had an awesome STL before she retired.

One would think ETLs would trained in the areas they're in charge of, but common sense obviously eludes corporate. "Undercover Boss", anyone?
 

Rock Lobster

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#10
We have a new STL and Hardlines ETL, and they know less about how the store works than a random guest off the street. The old ETL-HL was a huge tool, but at least he was competent, and we had an awesome STL before she retired.

One would think ETLs would trained in the areas they're in charge of, but common sense obviously eludes corporate. "Undercover Boss", anyone?
I think we all have to realize that alot of these ETLs who are fresh out of college are only given 6 weeks of business college before they are thrown in, alot of which will not teach them the specifics of the TM jobs (they don't even know what they are going to be over for most of it!)... Their first year is going to be a HUGE learning experience and they probably will not know what is going on... I don't have a problem with a new fresh out of college ETL... I have problems when the last 8 ETLs to enter my building are in their first or second position and have no clue what is going on! There is no balance between experience and fresh ideas!
 
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#12
I am currently watching first hand the best ETL in the building being forced out. Its obvious to all of us what is happening. The ETL is older (50! he is ancient!) knows how to inspire the team, brings fun to the team and makes everyone want to do their best. The rest of the ETL staff and the STL look like a college cheerleading crew. I am even more convinced when they all do the big Woo Hoo cheer when they announce that we have made the previous days sales. The sane ETL on the other hand tells us that due to our hard work we are making sales. He leads by example. You know the LOD handoff during the day? He often grabs a TL and has them walk the floor with him. During the 10 minute walk he asks our opinions on how things look, what needs attention etc. Wow imagine that an ETL that treats TLs like intelligent beings. He will be gone by Christmas I am sure. They are using the he doesn't communicate effectively excuse. When in all truth he communicates with the team much better than any of the others. What they really mean to say is he doesn't act like an immature power tripping bubble head. Target does discriminate in my opinion and their "Target" is older leaders. Take a look around your stores, how many ETLs are over 40? How many TLs over 40? I do have a problem with fresh out of college ETLS when they are being brought in to replace excellent but older ETLS. The younger ETLS see a decent paying job right out of college. But they really don't understand the hours or how to lead a team. They simply manage. The large majority don't make it past 2 years. The turnover rate for these folks seems huge.
We are graduating 10-12 new ETLs out of business college every 6 months to replace the 8-10 that have already quit and the older ETLS being forced out. of course this is simply my opinion
 

mrknownothing

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#13
We got a new ETL-GE a few months ago, and she was completely new to being an ETL, so she didn't really know how to do anything yet. But she got help from the other ETLs and wasn't afraid to ask her underlings for help, and now she's one of the best in our store. The new ETL-HL and STL I mentioned earlier are above going that route.
 
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#14
So, so true. I stated in another thread that I have no problem with freshly graduated 20 somethings getting ETL positions. But, I really do wish we had SOME new management with experience. When I started, there was a great mix of old and new management. Some were in their 30s, one was in their 50s. Now, every ETL we have can say that their current job is the first job they've ever had out of college... excepting my STL, because you THANKFULLY have to have SOME experience as an ETL for that.

I'm not knocking my upper management, I'm just tired of knowing more about my store than my superiors. I've gone from being much younger than my ETLs to being a little older in just a very very short timespan. It just wears on the ego a little.
 
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#16
One would think ETLs would trained in the areas they're in charge of, but common sense obviously eludes corporate. "Undercover Boss", anyone?

Undercover Boss would be a joke. They would put the boss in one of the few stores that run well. It would be no different than when you are getting a jet visit, pump up the schedule, all ETLs are on the floor interacting with the guests and (gasp) the team, ETLs spend 3 hours filling the GTC board so our visitors can see how much we are all recognized. Give me a visit from a DTL in street clothes on a Friday night. 4 people on the salesfloor, 3 cashiers and the ETL at TSC reading the latest issue of Bride magazine (looking at the pretty pictures is more accurate)This is at a SuperT. Yep that is the priority for our new out of college ETLs.
 

talan123

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#17
If they cannot do the work in that area, then they cannot manage it. It's as simple as that.

No matter what leadership classes somebody takes, if they cannot show their team they understand the nuances of the work that is being done then they are finished as a leader for that team. It's not about what somebody is capable of but it is a matter of respect for the employees.
 
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#18
Respect is earned an not given. That is whats wrong with Target they hire people for management potions because they can memorize corporate speak and recite it verbatim with a straight face. When a better job landed in my lap I thought to hell with this and scampered away as fast as I could.I know a lot of other old timers at my store are planning on leaving as soon as they can.
 
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#19
Our STL is awesome at making people feel "like one of the family", is I guess how I would put it. He takes his breaks with us "peons" in the breakroom, talks to us like "equals", has been with Target 20+ years, and has done just about every job there so he actually KNOWS his "stuff". He's VERY good at the "win one for the Gipper" type speeches and is one of those guys that you WANT to work for.
 
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#21
Our STL is awesome at making people feel "like one of the family", is I guess how I would put it. He takes his breaks with us "peons" in the breakroom, talks to us like "equals", has been with Target 20+ years, and has done just about every job there so he actually KNOWS his "stuff". He's VERY good at the "win one for the Gipper" type speeches and is one of those guys that you WANT to work for.
Can we trade?
 
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#22
We have a new STL and Hardlines ETL, and they know less about how the store works than a random guest off the street. The old ETL-HL was a huge tool, but at least he was competent, and we had an awesome STL before she retired.

One would think ETLs would trained in the areas they're in charge of, but common sense obviously eludes corporate. "Undercover Boss", anyone?
I wish they'd put someone from corporate on that show.
 

buliSBI

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#23
Because they aren't supposed to work those areas, but to manage them. I doubt my ETL-GE knows Photo Food Ave, or carts.
If they are not trained to work an area, how will they know what work needs to be done.

Granted they don't need to know everything about an area, they just need a basic understanding what goes on.

Everything ETL needs to know how to at least cashier and process returns because there will be times they will have to encounter transaction problems. They need to know the PDA functions for the floor and logistics. They need to know Best Practice and sanitation policies for Food Ave.
 

commiecorvus

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#24
Spots problem with the old folks is they recognize bull excrement when they see it, often not enforcing or only lightly enforcing policies that they feel fall into that category.
They tend to be more empathetic having been through their fair share of trial and tribulations.
The big difference between empathy and sympathy is the thirty-somethings can sympathize and still fire you.
Older management understand the difference between recognition and respect.
They are willing to work to gain yours.
 
Last edited:

Lady Fitting Room

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#25
Spots problem with the old folks is they recognize bull excrement when they see it, often not enforcing or only lightly enforcing policies that they feel fall into that category.
They tend to be more empathetic having been through their fair share of trial and tribulations. The big difference between empathy and sympathy is the thirty-somethings can sympathize and still fire you.
Older management understand the difference between recognition and respect. They are willing to work to gain yours.
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
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