Archived Insubordinate TMs

[Snake54]

Hello all,

I am a newly promoted Hardlines TL with only about 6 TMs reporting to me. I have been in role for just over a month now and my team members are not really digging my approach to leadership. The previous TL was very laid back and didn't care if they had their cell phones on the sales floor or took short cuts when completing a task.

Recently my ETL approached me and asked about the moral of my team, and I thought it was 'OK' and he said he was going to have some 1 on 1 chat sessions with the team members. Turns out they all complained about me, saying that I stress them out, and they want to quit because of me, and I am partially hurt by this because I tried having 1 on 1s with them as well and they mentioned the opposite, that they were happy and not stressed and were not thinking of quitting.

It's like I am leading a small group of high schoolers. Please help!

My ETL said that I should just try to pick my battles when instructing them to do tasks and to try to be a bit more laid back, my only concern is that I feel like these people are ganging up on me and I don't really have anything/anyone I can trust to vouch for me that I am doing a good job.

Any advice would be helpful!

 

[Gulfcoast]

Consult your in store peers, first.

Parcel out the easiest tasks to them, and see how they do. If they don't perform as expected, coach.

Observe their interactions with their teams, and how your fellow HLTLs interact with these TMs.

Have HR pull their files, see if any of this is stuff that's comes up in the past with them.

Sit with your ETL and HR, and try to get specific responses to how they would deal with some of the situations you've dealt with.

It sounds like their last TL was mentally clocked out, and pretty much let them get away with murder.

Remember, you have to take your individual store culture in account, sadly. If the entire store is lax, you either come off as a nazi to them by making them do work the way it's supposed to be done, or you're an overachiever who's marked by your peers. If your team is the exception to the store culture, then they need to be coached. PDD and all coached, not just verbals.

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

Golf coast hits it right on the button. Your tm's sounds like a pack of Wolves going for the kill. Stick to best practice & document everything.

 

[BigEyedPhish]

Just out of curiosty, what part of Hardlines are you in charge of?

I know me and my partner PAs have had it in for our last TL, as well as our current one.. I strongly believe that my current CTL was purposefully put into that position to be performanced out (as I have heard from a Sr. TL, as well as TLs in my store), yet we PAs have done a good enough job to help him keep his job... so far...

It is kind of a catch 22, because my leadership team wants me benched, yet the one thing probably holding me back from being promoted is the surprising decent job we are doing in market..

 

[AllThingsTarget101]

Let them have their cellphones on the floor. There are so many reasons to allow this, one being its so much easier to help guests with our phones than PDAs/LPDAs/Mydevices. Fighting at something this small would piss me off too.

 

[whippingboy]

Were you promoted from within hardlines or another department in the same store; have these team members once seen you as a peer?

 

[Rarejem]

As a TM that has had 6 different TL's in the past 5 years let me give you a brief TM's take on a new TL.
1. Things we did this way yesterday are now wrong? Why?
2. I can do "this" really well, efficiently, quickly and am a "go to" person for "this" and now you want me to do "that". Why?
3. I've been on this team for "x" years and am being treated as though I know nothing about what this job entails. Why?
4. We are a team, yet when it comes to our work we are approached as individuals and are often given different messages. We don't meet as a team to talk about issues, policy changes, new methods, changes in our role/job, expectations, ask questions, give suggestions. Why?
5. ETL's and/or LOD's will tell us to do things that are different or want them done differently than our TL. Our tasks are not always set by the TL. Why?
6. My TL knows nothing about my work history at Target and shows little or no interest in me as an individual and how these things affect my knowledge base, motivation, interactions with other TM's. Why?
7. My TL's work hours seldom coincide with my work hours and my TL does not seek me out to find out how the work of the day is going, to see if I have any questions about the work of the day, to let me know that he/she is leaving for the day or is going to be away for a few days. Why?
8. When I make suggestions for improvement you look at me like I have 3 heads. Why?
9. Other TL's in the building have little idea of how our team works and what our time constraints may be. It seems that TL's do not communicate well with each other. Why?

Treat your team like a team. Treat your team like the adults that know the job they are trained to do (and if they aren't, GET THEM TRAINED PROPERLY). I really like my job and I really understand the synergy between what I do and what other teams do. Does your team? It really helps to know that you are truly a part of a "big picture" and that what you do actually makes a difference. You are "picking battles"? It sounds like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder. Your TM's are looking to their Team LEADER, not their Team BOSS. Leaders are people that are responsible for inspiring, guiding and leading a group of people on a path for a common cause. A boss is a person who is in charge and gives orders. Which are you? Lead by example - treat them with respect and you will be treated with respect. I'm not just talking about them as individuals, but respect their work and their knowledge of that work. Encourage them to actually be a team that works well together, acknowledge their strengths and lead them into understanding how to improve upon their weak areas without just telling them that they are wrong.

With that being said and not knowing your team or your leadership strengths, I could be completely off base, of course. They may just be ticked off that they no longer have a TL that they really liked and you're just screwed.

 

[Mhugh220]

Hello all,

I am a newly promoted Hardlines TL with only about 6 TMs reporting to me. I have been in role for just over a month now and my team members are not really digging my approach to leadership. The previous TL was very laid back and didn't care if they had their cell phones on the sales floor or took short cuts when completing a task.

Recently my ETL approached me and asked about the moral of my team, and I thought it was 'OK' and he said he was going to have some 1 on 1 chat sessions with the team members. Turns out they all complained about me, saying that I stress them out, and they want to quit because of me, and I am partially hurt by this because I tried having 1 on 1s with them as well and they mentioned the opposite, that they were happy and not stressed and were not thinking of quitting.

It's like I am leading a small group of high schoolers. Please help!

My ETL said that I should just try to pick my battles when instructing them to do tasks and to try to be a bit more laid back, my only concern is that I feel like these people are ganging up on me and I don't really have anything/anyone I can trust to vouch for me that I am doing a good job.

Any advice would be helpful!

Pick your battles. If your ETL wants your team to follow something then either defend your team or gently let the team know about the change and why it is happening. These "short-cuts" you mention are ways to increase your numbers and stay green. You'll learn soon enough that it's more important to look green than it is to actually be green. Numbers promote - doing it the right way and being yellow/red does not.

Don't take the feedback personally. The team did the same thing to my TLs - say to his face they loved him then gave me a completely different story. The important thing is for the ETL to have your back. I loved my TLs and supported them when they had good ideas or were doing well. I even defended them against the STL and HR when the TMs were complaining about them - turns out, TMs don't accept change as well or as quickly as management. Not all TMs, but some. And I can't blame them because leader turnover is high.

 

[commiecorvus]

Face it, transitions always suck.
Doesn't matter if you are a new teacher, a step parent, or a new boss, no matter how good you are there is going to be a period of adjustment.
The important part is not to take it personally.

As Rarejem pointed out the best thing you can do is be a leader.
Don't chivy and harass your team but get out front of your team and show them where you want them to go, lead by example.
Show that you will fight for them.
Feed them, I know that sounds silly but random acts of kindness go a long way.

And not to put too fine a point on it and repeat what others have said, treat them like grownups.
They've been doing this job for a while, listen to them, find out why they are frustrated.
Give them a chance to prove their value to you.

 

[sigma7]

And just stick it out. Probably in 6 months at least half of your team will turnover and then all the new people will never know about the "old" way of doing things.

 

[tgtguy]

Well, to he honest...I have to give credit to your etl that he actually took the time to talk to your team. I have always said that IF someone actually takes the time to listen they can learn a lot ( be it good or bad). My advice would be to talk to your team and tell them that you want their feedback because as a new leader you are looking ways to develop. By talking to them, you may be able to reach common ground and understand their concerns. There is always some resistance to change ...when a new tl comes into play.

 

[Bosch]

As a TM that has had 6 different TL's in the past 5 years let me give you a brief TM's take on a new TL.
1. Things we did this way yesterday are now wrong? Why?
2. I can do "this" really well, efficiently, quickly and am a "go to" person for "this" and now you want me to do "that". Why?
3. I've been on this team for "x" years and am being treated as though I know nothing about what this job entails. Why?
4. We are a team, yet when it comes to our work we are approached as individuals and are often given different messages. We don't meet as a team to talk about issues, policy changes, new methods, changes in our role/job, expectations, ask questions, give suggestions. Why?
5. ETL's and/or LOD's will tell us to do things that are different or want them done differently than our TL. Our tasks are not always set by the TL. Why?
6. My TL knows nothing about my work history at Target and shows little or no interest in me as an individual and how these things affect my knowledge base, motivation, interactions with other TM's. Why?
7. My TL's work hours seldom coincide with my work hours and my TL does not seek me out to find out how the work of the day is going, to see if I have any questions about the work of the day, to let me know that he/she is leaving for the day or is going to be away for a few days. Why?
8. When I make suggestions for improvement you look at me like I have 3 heads. Why?
9. Other TL's in the building have little idea of how our team works and what our time constraints may be. It seems that TL's do not communicate well with each other. Why?

Treat your team like a team. Treat your team like the adults that know the job they are trained to do (and if they aren't, GET THEM TRAINED PROPERLY). I really like my job and I really understand the synergy between what I do and what other teams do. Does your team? It really helps to know that you are truly a part of a "big picture" and that what you do actually makes a difference. You are "picking battles"? It sounds like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder. Your TM's are looking to their Team LEADER, not their Team BOSS. Leaders are people that are responsible for inspiring, guiding and leading a group of people on a path for a common cause. A boss is a person who is in charge and gives orders. Which are you? Lead by example - treat them with respect and you will be treated with respect. I'm not just talking about them as individuals, but respect their work and their knowledge of that work. Encourage them to actually be a team that works well together, acknowledge their strengths and lead them into understanding how to improve upon their weak areas without just telling them that they are wrong.

With that being said and not knowing your team or your leadership strengths, I could be completely off base, of course. They may just be ticked off that they no longer have a TL that they really liked and you're just screwed.

This.

 

[Snake54]

Appreciate all the ideas and support everyone!

 

[Gulfcoast]

Let them have their cellphones on the floor. There are so many reasons to allow this, one being its so much easier to help guests with our phones than PDAs/LPDAs/Mydevices. Fighting at something this small would piss me off too.

If they're assisting guests, that's one thing, but I'm getting a texttexttext checking the game vibe. I may be reading that wrong though.

 

[AllThingsTarget101]

Let them have their cellphones on the floor. There are so many reasons to allow this, one being its so much easier to help guests with our phones than PDAs/LPDAs/Mydevices. Fighting at something this small would piss me off too.

If they're assisting guests, that's one thing, but I'm getting a texttexttext checking the game vibe. I may be reading that wrong though.

Is it worth the time to fight it? It brings the team down and ultimately not everyone texts, and those who do don't do it often. Obviously there will always be a select few who take advantage of policies.

 

[copycopy]

I am the newer of 2 TLs for my area, we both approach the team in very different manners. If I have a problem with one of my TMs I have a discussion of my expectations and the reasons behind them (i.e. not standing in the fine end talking to cashiers who are on register when they themselves are off the clock because it looks bad to the guests and keeps the cashiers from engaging..this lowers the vibe.. etc ) I always back things up with a reason so they understand the whys.

 

[Gulfcoast]

Let them have their cellphones on the floor. There are so many reasons to allow this, one being its so much easier to help guests with our phones than PDAs/LPDAs/Mydevices. Fighting at something this small would piss me off too.

If they're assisting guests, that's one thing, but I'm getting a texttexttext checking the game vibe. I may be reading that wrong though.

Is it worth the time to fight it? It brings the team down and ultimately not everyone texts, and those who do don't do it often. Obviously there will always be a select few who take advantage of policies.

I've never had to place a cellphone ban with my team, but they know I'll do it if I catch them slacking off or a guest complains.

I love my TMs. I'm not afraid to be the bad guy though, because ultimately, their jobs and my own are on the line if they don't maintain a professional atmosphere. Not saying suits and ties professional, but follow the rules professional.

 

[melvin]

Well, to he honest...I have to give credit to your etl that he actually took the time to talk to your team. I have always said that IF someone actually takes the time to listen they can learn a lot ( be it good or bad). My advice would be to talk to your team and tell them that you want their feedback because as a new leader you are looking ways to develop. By talking to them, you may be able to reach common ground and understand their concerns. There is always some resistance to change ...when a new tl comes into play.

I don't. I've found this kind of thing undermines supervisors. Never, never, never have this kind of conference without the supervisor in question unless there is some sort of concrete evidence that there is some kind of significant violation occurring. When you exclude the supervisor in question, it minimizes that supervisor in question and communicates some really troubling things to the employees/team members. Every good leader I've ever had instructed the employee to talk directly with a manager if there is a problem rather than doing an end run around that manager. Unfortunately, Target seems to encourage the exact opposite, which breeds more distrust and animosity. We already live in a society that discourages direct communication. This just adds to it.

 

[tgtguy]

I don't think the leader in question should be involved in the initial "chat session"/ Most team members are not going to feel comfortable being open and honest in front of their leader...if they did then they would had done that to begin with. I do, however think that after an initial chat session...the hr or etl should talk with the team lead , let them know what was said etc and discuss it with the team leader. Then, the tl and the etl. ( or hr etl) should sit down with the team a( including team lead in question) as a whole and discuss the issues...that way everyone is on the same page. Maybe the team has valid concerns...and maybe the team lead has valid concerns...maybe they can see common ground. Just because someone is a Tm doesn't automatically make them wrong...or just making up excuses just as someone who is a leader isn't always being wrong or always being an ass.....its a case by case basis

 

[melvin]

I don't think the leader in question should be involved in the initial "chat session"/ Most team members are not going to feel comfortable being open and honest in front of their leader...if they did then they would had done that to begin with. I do, however think that after an initial chat session...the hr or etl should talk with the team lead , let them know what was said etc and discuss it with the team leader. Then, the tl and the etl. ( or hr etl) should sit down with the team a( including team lead in question) as a whole and discuss the issues...that way everyone is on the same page. Maybe the team has valid concerns...and maybe the team lead has valid concerns...maybe they can see common ground. Just because someone is a Tm doesn't automatically make them wrong...or just making up excuses just as someone who is a leader isn't always being wrong or always being an ass.....its a case by case basis

Precisely the problem - This approach cultivates fear and suspicion. It also cuts out the legs of the supervisor by enabling some employees to learn that they can circumvent their supervisor and "tell on them." It also propagates the culture of not speaking directly to people about issues. Having seen this many times, it's utterly cancerous.

 

[Noiinteam]

Chain of command its in place for a reason

 

[tgtguy]

If it only worked...

 

[RedDog]

You best bet is to seek advice from you peers. They at least have a much better view of what is going on than you can provide here. Also if your out of step with your stores leadership culture (and it could be a terrible one) then your going have never ending problems. When these people spoke to your ETL the first thing he should have said have you brought this up with Snake54? If not do so and then if you can not work things out come to me. I came from a military back ground so leading civilians was a little different. However, if you were a good TM you loved me because I would go to bat for you any time of the day, if you were a crappy TM you hated and feared me.

Of course now that economy is improving, low wage jobs are plentiful Target has a big turn over problem. And that can change everything to the point TMs can do anything as long as show up and do not steal.

 

[tellmeaboutatime]

If you have an "established" team, they may be resistant to change. The one constant at Target is that it is always changing. We have had dozens of improvements and new processes in the last year. The more experienced team members are generally very resistant to change and are unable to see the big picture. What they can't sometimes see is how one process works with another. If one is on best practice and the other isn't it will make both fail. Don't take their criticism personally. Think about what they have said and if it really is about you being unfair or pushy etc. Of course you will not be allowed to sit in on the chat your HR should give you a general overview of the discussion though. You have to make changes slowly though. Recognize for results. Recognize for team work. Recognize for effort. You all have the same goal. Its not a popularity contest. Your team doesn't have to like you or want to go out for drinks with you. They do need to respect you and you need to respect them. Follow best practice, get to know your team members strengths and opportunities, set high expectations and be consistent. Be a leader.

 

[RedMan]

I don't think the leader in question should be involved in the initial "chat session"/ Most team members are not going to feel comfortable being open and honest in front of their leader...if they did then they would had done that to begin with. I do, however think that after an initial chat session...the hr or etl should talk with the team lead , let them know what was said etc and discuss it with the team leader. Then, the tl and the etl. ( or hr etl) should sit down with the team a( including team lead in question) as a whole and discuss the issues...that way everyone is on the same page. Maybe the team has valid concerns...and maybe the team lead has valid concerns...maybe they can see common ground. Just because someone is a Tm doesn't automatically make them wrong...or just making up excuses just as someone who is a leader isn't always being wrong or always being an ass.....its a case by case basis

Precisely the problem - This approach cultivates fear and suspicion. It also cuts out the legs of the supervisor by enabling some employees to learn that they can circumvent their supervisor and "tell on them." It also propagates the culture of not speaking directly to people about issues. Having seen this many times, it's utterly cancerous.

I agree with you, melvin. When a TM goes over my head without first talking to me, it's the ETLs responsibility (in my mind) to suggest that the TM talk to the TL first. If there's not a satisfactory resolution after talking to the TL, then the TM should go to the ETL.