It’s time!

UnionizeHSV said:
With the news this weekend of Amazon unionizing in Staten Island it is time for Target to get a taste of that also. I am an OM at T580 in Huntsville, AL and I will be leading the charge. More information to follow shortly!

Workers unite and Fight the power!
Click to expand...
Not here.
www.huffpost.com

Union Blasts Target Closure

Union Blasts Target Closure
www.huffpost.com
 
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I grew up in a union family (my dad was a skilled trades worker), and so I'm well aware of the benefits that a union CAN provide to workers. But if this actually were to gain ground, I'd vote no. That's partly because I'm not interested in paying dues for something I think is unncessary, but more because I've seen how a union can cause some workers to be treated in ways that I consider to be unfair.
Maybe other TMs see value in it, but I sure don't.
 
FlowTeamChick said:
I grew up in a union family (my dad was a skilled trades worker), and so I'm well aware of the benefits that a union CAN provide to workers. But if this actually were to gain ground, I'd vote no. That's partly because I'm not interested in paying dues for something I think is unncessary, but more because I've seen how a union can cause some workers to be treated in ways that I consider to be unfair.
Maybe other TMs see value in it, but I sure don't.
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I’m not sure how I would feel about it. At the beginning of my time at Target, I thought the company was great the way it was, the team I was assigned to, everyone was primarily happy. There were clear guidelines as to what a TM should and should not do, which for the most part were enforced by leaders in a fair manner. Now, many years later, in our current culture, this is no longer the case. Depending on who you are, and your relationship with your leaders, determines what you can or cannot get away with. Raises are not given fairly on some teams, bonuses are based on who you are and how much your leader likes you, not on your actual performance or the portion of your team workload that you happen to carry. A Union would change all these things. But, the trade off would be TM paying monthly dues for that representation. Anyone that knows anyone in a union, well for the most part the benefits are much more affordable, I still have a hard time believing that Target cannot get better insurance rates for its team members with the size of this company. What we pay per paycheck is insane compared to most union members, especially when factoring in family coverage.
 
Rarejem said:
Can you elaborate?
Click to expand...
A for instance: certain workers coming in late, taking long lunches, and leaving early, consistently, and never being called to task for it. This is when I was a long-term temp employee on an assignment for a very large unionized organization. When I asked how they got away with it, I was told that it was so difficult to fire a union employee that the higher-ups didn't think it was worth all the hassle for anything less than something egregious. Yet, their co-workers seem to be expected to pick up their slack.
Another: some workers were told to stop working so hard because it made the rest of them look bad. I didn't work there, but trust the source - my friend was part of a team that really busted their butts and did a really good job. Problem was that their hard work pointed out that other teams in the company were lazy in comparison. They were "teased" in a rather pointed way to knock it off. But the hard-working team wasn't paid any better; in fact, because they had less seniority, they were paid less.
One from my own family: my dad was helping my brother as brother was remodeling a house. (He used to buy one fixer-upper at a time, do all the fixing up himself, and then sell it.) Brother was pushing to get a lot done, Dad was "What's the big rush? We have all day." This was after 45+ years as a union member. Brother was more like "Time is money, so get a move on." Dad did good work, but he was slow and didn't see how that was a problem. He could have got more done, just didn't see why it mattered.
I could go on, but those are the ones that come to mind.
If we had unsafe working conditions, were subjected to abusive behavior, or some other terrible actions on the part of management, I might think differently.
 
FlowTeamChick said:
A for instance: certain workers coming in late, taking long lunches, and leaving early, consistently, and never being called to task for it. This is when I was a long-term temp employee on an assignment for a very large unionized organization. When I asked how they got away with it, I was told that it was so difficult to fire a union employee that the higher-ups didn't think it was worth all the hassle for anything less than something egregious. Yet, their co-workers seem to be expected to pick up their slack.
Another: some workers were told to stop working so hard because it made the rest of them look bad. I didn't work there, but trust the source - my friend was part of a team that really busted their butts and did a really good job. Problem was that their hard work pointed out that other teams in the company were lazy in comparison. They were "teased" in a rather pointed way to knock it off. But the hard-working team wasn't paid any better; in fact, because they had less seniority, they were paid less.
One from my own family: my dad was helping my brother as brother was remodeling a house. (He used to buy one fixer-upper at a time, do all the fixing up himself, and then sell it.) Brother was pushing to get a lot done, Dad was "What's the big rush? We have all day." This was after 45+ years as a union member. Brother was more like "Time is money, so get a move on." Dad did good work, but he was slow and didn't see how that was a problem. He could have got more done, just didn't see why it mattered.
I could go on, but those are the ones that come to mind.
If we had unsafe working conditions, were subjected to abusive behavior, or some other terrible actions on the part of management, I might think differently.
Click to expand...
Dat part
 
FlowTeamChick said:
A for instance: certain workers coming in late, taking long lunches, and leaving early, consistently, and never being called to task for it. This is when I was a long-term temp employee on an assignment for a very large unionized organization. When I asked how they got away with it, I was told that it was so difficult to fire a union employee that the higher-ups didn't think it was worth all the hassle for anything less than something egregious. Yet, their co-workers seem to be expected to pick up their slack.
Another: some workers were told to stop working so hard because it made the rest of them look bad. I didn't work there, but trust the source - my friend was part of a team that really busted their butts and did a really good job. Problem was that their hard work pointed out that other teams in the company were lazy in comparison. They were "teased" in a rather pointed way to knock it off. But the hard-working team wasn't paid any better; in fact, because they had less seniority, they were paid less.
One from my own family: my dad was helping my brother as brother was remodeling a house. (He used to buy one fixer-upper at a time, do all the fixing up himself, and then sell it.) Brother was pushing to get a lot done, Dad was "What's the big rush? We have all day." This was after 45+ years as a union member. Brother was more like "Time is money, so get a move on." Dad did good work, but he was slow and didn't see how that was a problem. He could have got more done, just didn't see why it mattered.
I could go on, but those are the ones that come to mind.
If we had unsafe working conditions, were subjected to abusive behavior, or some other terrible actions on the part of management, I might think differently.
Click to expand...

The bad workers getting away with shit is entirely on the piss poor management.
My wife was a union rep for the teacher union and the fact is you can fire teachers, you just have to do the paperwork.
So many principles just didn't want to do the work.
They would rather transfer the teacher to another school and make them somebody else's problem rather than do their damned jobs.

As to the long time workers telling the newbies that they were making them look bad, if I had a penny for every time I'd heard that chestnut I'd be a rich man.
Also the less seniority getting paid less, but if you look at the last two major strikes, John Deere and Kellogg's one of the major points they were striking about was the company trying to set up a two tier system where new employees would be paid less and get less benefits.
They won by the way and kept the companies from fucking over new employees that way.
That's why you need unions at your back.

Your dad had it right.
My father was a union carpenter all his life and he believed you took your time to get the project right the first time, not rushing and fuck it up.
It's the old measure twice, cut once adage.
I also would not have made it through my teenage years with epilepsy if it hadn't been for the Carpenter's Union insurance.
 
commiecorvus said:
Your dad had it right.
My father was a union carpenter all his life and he believed you took your time to get the project right the first time, not rushing and fuck it up.
It's the old measure twice, cut once adage.
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Have your opinions about unions, but please do not disparage my brother's work. I should be so fortunate to live in a house that benefited from my brother's craftsmanship. He doesn't rush and end up with a poor result. But he doesn't take all day to do something that could be done in a morning either.
 
FlowTeamChick said:
Have your opinions about unions, but please do not disparage my brother's work. I should be so fortunate to live in a house that benefited from my brother's craftsmanship. He doesn't rush and end up with a poor result. But he doesn't take all day to do something that could be done in a morning either.
Click to expand...

Not insulting your brother, rather supporting your father's perspective.
Your brother is probably a fine craftsman and makes a great house.
Does that make your dad's approach bad?
I think you'll find that you become an old carpenter and don't lose your fingers or toes by being more calm and careful.
I can't tell you how many craftsman we get in DVR who have destroyed their bodies by working at killer speeds all their life.
 
FlowTeamChick said:
A for instance: certain workers coming in late, taking long lunches, and leaving early, consistently, and never being called to task for it. This is when I was a long-term temp employee on an assignment for a very large unionized organization. When I asked how they got away with it, I was told that it was so difficult to fire a union employee that the higher-ups didn't think it was worth all the hassle for anything less than something egregious. Yet, their co-workers seem to be expected to pick up their slack.
Click to expand...
You think this isn’t going on now in our buildings? target tends to shy away from firing, even without a union. the appeal, at least to me, would be taking preferences and favoritism out of reviews and bonuses. everyone treated the same, because is in writing, in the contract.
 
FlowTeamChick said:
A for instance: certain workers coming in late, taking long lunches, and leaving early, consistently, and never being called to task for it. This is when I was a long-term temp employee on an assignment for a very large unionized organization. When I asked how they got away with it, I was told that it was so difficult to fire a union employee that the higher-ups didn't think it was worth all the hassle for anything less than something egregious. Yet, their co-workers seem to be expected to pick up their slack.
Another: some workers were told to stop working so hard because it made the rest of them look bad. I didn't work there, but trust the source - my friend was part of a team that really busted their butts and did a really good job. Problem was that their hard work pointed out that other teams in the company were lazy in comparison. They were "teased" in a rather pointed way to knock it off. But the hard-working team wasn't paid any better; in fact, because they had less seniority, they were paid less.
One from my own family: my dad was helping my brother as brother was remodeling a house. (He used to buy one fixer-upper at a time, do all the fixing up himself, and then sell it.) Brother was pushing to get a lot done, Dad was "What's the big rush? We have all day." This was after 45+ years as a union member. Brother was more like "Time is money, so get a move on." Dad did good work, but he was slow and didn't see how that was a problem. He could have got more done, just didn't see why it mattered.
I could go on, but those are the ones that come to mind.
If we had unsafe working conditions, were subjected to abusive behavior, or some other terrible actions on the part of management, I might think differently.
Click to expand...

Counterpoint:

“Suppose that, at a given moment, a certain number of people are engaged in the manufacture of pins. They make as many pins as the world needs, working (say) eight hours a day. Someone makes an invention by which the same number of men can make twice as many pins: pins are already so cheap that hardly any more will be bought at a lower price. In a sensible world, everybody concerned in the manufacturing of pins would take to working four hours instead of eight, and everything else would go on as before. But in the actual world this would be thought demoralizing. The men still work eight hours, there are too many pins, some employers go bankrupt, and half the men previously concerned in making pins are thrown out of work. There is, in the end, just as much leisure as on the other plan, but half the men are totally idle while half are still overworked. In this way, it is insured that the unavoidable leisure shall cause misery all round instead of being a universal source of happiness. Can anything more insane be imagined?”​


--Bertrand Russell
 
I wonder what union these Amazon workers are trying to join.

How would this affect Target if the DC unionize but not the stores?

I imagine the percent of full-time workers at DC is much larger than a store.

The amount of warehouses in general must have exploded this past few years.
 
Dream Baby said:
I wonder what union these Amazon workers are trying to join.

How would this affect Target if the DC unionize but not the stores?

I imagine the percent of full-time workers at DC is much larger than a store.

The amount of warehouses in general must have exploded this past few years.
Click to expand...
Everyone at the warehouse is a full time worker and I can’t speak for other companies but Target hasn’t really been building many new warehouses
 
Insurance is a part of life these days. People buy medical, dental, vision, life, homeowners or renters, car, sometimes boat, aircraft, pet, collection or other types of insurance to protect themselves against loss. Union dues are employment insurance. Union dues are totally worth it because the Union protects your job, wages, working conditions, provides you with insurance, fights for higher wages and provides help with grievances. All reasons why Target hates them so much.
 
WHS said:
Everyone at the warehouse is a full time worker and I can’t speak for other companies but Target hasn’t really been building many new warehouses
Click to expand...
I meant there are more warehouse workers in general not just Target ones.
 
UnionizeHSV said:
With the news this weekend of Amazon unionizing in Staten Island it is time for Target to get a taste of that also. I am an OM at T580 in Huntsville, AL and I will be leading the charge. More information to follow shortly!

Workers unite and Fight the power!
Click to expand...
NOPE. NOT PAYING UNION DUES
 

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