Should HR Experts be leaders?

Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Messages
1,168
i get it. Who do they lead? My PM will tell you has no one to lead, just the title.
The PML is given the L so that they can tell anyone in the building to do or not do something and that person can be held accountable for insubordination.. PMLs and VMs work for the district, not the store. It’s especially important for the PML as many of the things they do can cause impressive fines or injuries if people don’t follow directions. This is another example of the lead position being responsible for results, not just specific work.
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Messages
2,287
From a HR position, we have regulations in place that can also create fines if they are not followed. minor waivers, term compliance’s, 5th/6th hour compliance’s, I-9’s, etc. in HR, we are often in a challenge with the SD and other store leaders to make sure we are in compliance. No, your minor cannot work O/T, no they cannot stay later, I’ve had leaders tell their TM’s to not punch because they hit meal compliance, I’ve had leaders do terms incorrectly that placed us out of compliance….I could go on. If we are without an ETL, then the HRBP will be partnering with us.
 

Inboundbeast

Closing Team Leader
Joined
Mar 7, 2019
Messages
111
Actually ours kind of does. They may not be a target team but the PML oversees the cleaning crew and has to do walks with them daily. If the cleaning crew is doing a bad job it reflects directly on the PML.
This and there is a lot of planning in the PML role.. they own a process essentially; just like the VM. Hence why these positions are in PG45.

The HRE and TSS for example usually assist their leadership in routine tasks in their departments and they don’t really OWN any part of the process.. This is why i believe target leaves them in PG35 and not somewhere in the middle.
 
Joined
Dec 13, 2021
Messages
2
You would be surprised how many stores do not have HR leadership...which leads the HR experts to handle so many additional tasks. I agree - wish HR experts were a little more than PG35 TMs.
 

SpottedBull

SuperT PML
Joined
Apr 4, 2019
Messages
9
Wow, some of the responsibilities you listed should be done by your ETL and fellow ETL’s. With this being said, I have commented before that we should be paid more based of the specialty of our position. We already have VM’s and PML’s being paid at a higher wage and they are not leaders and they are working in specialty positions. There are HRE‘s who are without an ETL and are running the department often for many months without an ETL. In my district the turnover for HRE’s is pretty high and those that I know who have left have left because they are doing similar work for a higher rate of pay.
PMLs are absolutely leaders. They oversee outside vendors, technicians, remodel formen and the housekeeping lead (wile avoiding legal issues like co-employment). They have keys to most of the building and the passcode to the fire system. They can tell an employee to do/not do something, especially if it is related to health, safety, or protecting an asset. They have a budget, and purchasing powers (most if not all TLs can’t purchase). They are responsible for numerous metrics, as well as health, safety, compliance, and legal issues. They make decisions and policies that require leader status to make and that other leaders in the building have to follow. VMs had their leader status taken away.
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
512
i get it. Who do they lead? My PM will tell you has no one to lead, just the title.
They lead the cleaning crew. A good PML should have influence in the store. Although they will not delegate any tasks to team members etc. They should be leading in other ways, such as holding the team accountable to equipment control and driving cleaning standards in food areas etc. They do a lot behind the scenes and don't lead as much as a GMTL but a good PML should be doing a little bit of leading. Like said above they deal with a lot of vendors and contractors and lead them as well.
 

Unleashed Dog

Food Dog
Joined
Jul 22, 2020
Messages
39
I think it depends on the store. I'm surprised by the responsibilities you have as an HR Expert. All stores I've been at HRE's have been pretty much secretary tier, and the ones at my current store are so underwhelming and slow to react...
 

NXT

Knowledge TL
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
114
I don't think many understand what else a PML does. They have Preventative Maitence to do, Corrective Maintenance, Field Projects, following up with outside vendors (LVM) and all the "shoulder tapping" of people asking for help instead of using my help.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2014
Messages
71
We are on the weekly leadership emails from our HR Business Partner (Target lingo for, like, our regional vice-president of Human Resources) and are privy to her in-person meetings with store leadership as she gives us the same goals and directives as them. Most other team members in the store have no idea who our HR Business Partner even is, yet we are working with her personally on a weekly basis to tackle overarching issues in our store.
WOW!!! I wish ours kept us informed in that manner.
 

HRTMKendall

Human Resources Expert
Joined
Aug 19, 2018
Messages
183
I have a question...kind of looking to start a discussion and see if I am nuts or if others have wondered about this as well.

I am one of 2 HR Experts in a store with no HR TLs, just an HR ETL. (I think this is very common in the chain stores, at least in my state.)

I've noticed that the level of responsibility we have as HR team members is quite a bit higher than most, if not all, other team members in the store, and is in fact higher than even some Team Leaders in other departments. And yet we are brought in at the same starting hourly rate as any entry level team member. (Please know that nothing I am saying is meant to disparage anyone else! I am not trying to insult other roles! What I mean to say is that it feels like we have a unique level of responsibility?)

To be honest, I feel that HR Experts, as we currently function, should be Team Leaders. Here are some examples of why:

- Our training takes a full four weeks, and after that there is still so much to learn! A district HR person told me that it takes *at least* six months for an HR Expert to really know what they're doing. Why? Because the job entails SO MUCH.
- We have keys to the key box in TSC and give out every set of keys (tech keys, self check-out keys, optical keys, wav keys, etc.) and maintain records of who takes them and when they are returned; some Team Leaders on the floor do not even have access to this box.
- We control access to the locked equipment room where people get their MyDevices, walkies, box cutters, etc., and we maintain records of all of those things being signed in and out.
- We are responsible for maintaining vital records which, if not kept properly, could expose the store to lawsuits and government fines. E.g. minor work permits, ADA documentation, etc.
- We monitor compliance and are directed to "have conversations with" team members or even leaders who are out of compliance. (How am I expected to "reprimand" somebody who is on the same level as me or even above me???) Documentation that these conversations happened is maintained. This alone feels very much not like "equal team member" but like "leader."
- We are on the weekly leadership emails from our HR Business Partner (Target lingo for, like, our regional vice-president of Human Resources) and are privy to her in-person meetings with store leadership as she gives us the same goals and directives as them. Most other team members in the store have no idea who our HR Business Partner even is, yet we are working with her personally on a weekly basis to tackle overarching issues in our store.
- We play a major role in recruiting and hiring, choosing which candidates to move forward and which to decline. And yet we are paid the same and considered at the same level as the new hire we just placed?
- We run orientations, being the welcoming first face of Target while also ensuring that every new person being hired is legally eligible to work in the United States and is providing all proper I-9 documentation. These conversations are never easy, when someone shows up without proper paperwork or is not able to provide proof of citizenship/eligibility to work in the US.
- We are asked routinely by ETLs to make calls to team members who haven't shown up to work and use our judgment in deciding whether they sound sincerely willing to get back on track or whether we should just term them. I personally have been directed by ETLs on multiple occasions to term someone ... unless my judgment and conversation with that TM told me to give them another chance!
- We have access to TM and TL schedules, availability, attendance details, performance record, and payslips. We have the power to change punches and to approve or deny punch corrections submitted by TMs (or even TLs) in MyTime Self-Service. We change schedules all the time and are asked to find and add other TMs who may be available to come in if we are short-handed.
- We are responsible for being apprised of state and federal law and creating and managing processes to keep ourselves compliant as laws change...case in point, covid vaccination status and testing. We are responsible for getting every person who works in our store (including ODTM) to upload their vaccination status, and we will be responsible for overseeing the ongoing weekly testing for non-vaccinated employees at every level in our store. That alone is a HUGE task and responsibility!
- We receive complaints and concerns and listen to people's private problems all the time, and if we handled any of these conversations incorrectly or were to be indiscreet about any of it, we would be opening up Target to legal vulnerabilities. Not to mention the personal responsibility of being helpful and caring in those moments. We have to be calm, know what to say and what not to say, and how to direct the person to the correct resource. In the past four weeks alone, we have dealt with TM going missing on the property, then threatening self-harm; a minor female complaining of sexual harassment by an adult male in her department; a traumatized new hire coming into work in hysterics after witnessing a shocking family tragedy; an ETL who has been with the company 17 years having a sobbing breakdown on my shoulder at the start of an orientation in front of 11 new hires; and a candidate without proper immigration paperwork attempting to intimidate me into letting him start work anyway because his family needs his paycheck. It is a LOT. It is all emotional because we care about every single one of these people, and it is a tremendous amount of stress to feel responsible for so much for so many.

In short, half the store already thinks we are Team Leaders! They just assume that we must be because of everything we have access to and do for them on a daily basis! People come to us as leaders. We are the question-answerers and the problem-solvers. We are shoulders to cry on, listening ears to vent frustrations to, and mediators amid conflict.

With absolutely no disrespect to team members in other areas of the store, I am asking: am I the only one who thinks that this particular role feels different from other TM roles and maybe should be a Leader position?
Preach!!! We must have the same ETL! Lol
 

HRTMKendall

Human Resources Expert
Joined
Aug 19, 2018
Messages
183
The fact that I can fire every hourly person in my store from home (besides the PML), have access to their SSN #, Address, etc.. to me is crazy for a TM position in HR. Why give us so much access to pay us the same as regular TMs?
 

BackupTL

GMTL
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
Messages
71
The PML is given the L so that they can tell anyone in the building to do or not do something and that person can be held accountable for insubordination.. PMLs and VMs work for the district, not the store. It’s especially important for the PML as many of the things they do can cause impressive fines or injuries if people don’t follow directions. This is another example of the lead position being responsible for results, not just specific work.
More like, the PML partners with other leaders to ensure TMs are held accountable. PMLs don't have performance documentation access, for example, except in the very, very few stores that have a PM Attendant TM.
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Messages
2,287
They lead global and vendors. The lead was added to their title so they realize they should be more vocal with the other leaders on best practices and compliance
Just asked any HRE how many times they remind leaders about HR best practices and compliance. I’ve been without an ETL for months before and I know other HRE’s who have been without one for 6 months or longer. The HR role has a lot of compliance metrics that can cause fines if not managed - meal compliance, minor compliance, etc.
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2020
Messages
54
Just asked any HRE how many times they remind leaders about HR best practices and compliance. I’ve been without an ETL for months before and I know other HRE’s who have been without one for 6 months or longer. The HR role has a lot of compliance metrics that can cause fines if not managed - meal compliance, minor compliance,

I actually do think HR experts should be leaders. I think there should be 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 depending how big the store is and we shouldn't have an HR etl and they should report to an HR BP. But.... my opinions don't count for much.

My husband is a PML. That's why I wrote what I did. It wasn't an argument just an add on
 
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