Should I be worried about my shot at a TL role?

DBZ

Joined
Dec 9, 2018
Messages
1,281
You said you wanted advice about how to go forward. You need to start listening. We have given you so much advice. Go back and read it. We might be right.

Hearing that they got a new GM TL was disappointing for you. You can be bummed out about this, but try not to let any leaders see you upset.

Your ETL offered you the closing expert role. Take it! Some stores use that as a way to train people who are in the pipeline or on the bench. It sucks to hear, but the truth is that it can take a whole friggin year to get promoted. There will be more ups and downs. You might get your ass chewed. They will look at how you do when you are stressed, etc.
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
512
Probably not, if my experience watching TMs not get promoted is typical. Some have introspection and some don’t. Many think it’s all about seniority and not skill, usually because their parents had union jobs.
If they honestly mentioned the "19 year old child" when talking to the ETL I would write this person off my list of possible promotions immediately.
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Messages
64
You said you wanted advice about how to go forward. You need to start listening. We have given you so much advice. Go back and read it. We might be right.

Hearing that they got a new GM TL was disappointing for you. You can be bummed out about this, but try not to let any leaders see you upset.

Your ETL offered you the closing expert role. Take it! Some stores use that as a way to train people who are in the pipeline or on the bench. It sucks to hear, but the truth is that it can take a whole friggin year to get promoted. There will be more ups and downs. You might get your ass chewed. They will look at how you do when you are stressed, etc.
It's not even the official closing expert role. We already have a closing expert. My schedule just has me listed under my usual truck routine and I honestly think that my ETL is just telling me this to placate me.

She already did something similar like this. When we first talked about leadership, she said that she was going to schedule me to run the overnight Christmas transition set and that I'd be the leader in charge of the group setting, but that's not what happened. One of our normal GM leaders ended up leading us and I was nothing more than just a regular TM doing transition work and still having to report to someone. Hence why I think that they're not serious about promoting me.
 
Joined
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Messages
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It's not even the official closing expert role. We already have a closing expert. My schedule just has me listed under my usual truck routine and I honestly think that my ETL is just telling me this to placate me.

She already did something similar like this. When we first talked about leadership, she said that she was going to schedule me to run the overnight Christmas transition set and that I'd be the leader in charge of the group setting, but that's not what happened. One of our normal GM leaders ended up leading us and I was nothing more than just a regular TM doing transition work and still having to report to someone. Hence why I think that they're not serious about promoting me.
Did you just show up to the overnight expecting to be in charge? Did you talk to the other leader who was scheduled with you and tell them what your ETL told you? A lot of the time situations like this are about follow up and it's on you to do it. The ETL isn't the one trying to get promoted and can only do some much for you. You need to take initiative and hold them accountable for the things they tell you. Don't expect anything just based of their word, they couldn't care less if you get promoted or not as you've seen there is always someone else.
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
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64
So I have another update:

When I got into work today, my ETL pulled me into her office for a talk and I honestly was expecting trouble. My attitude ever since our last talk was noticeably deteriorating and I was expecting a coaching conversation, at the very least.

But my ETL mentioned our last talk and she said that she was proud of me for bringing up the issue and bringing it to her attention. She told me that it was the first time in my development that I really stepped up and showed some type of initiative, some type of drive that showed that I really wanted that TL role. She explained that she now sees how badly I want a lead role.

She told me that our store was more than likely to be getting a role opening up in January or February. I was honestly drifting in and out of the conversation and I wasn’t fully paying attention, but she mentioned things like a “back end TL” and she mentioned things pertaining to the upcoming store remodel. She basically asked me if I was still serious about a TL role and that we can seriously step up my training and development to prepare for when the role opens up.

I told her that I’m 50/50 on leadership and that I’d like some time to weigh all of my options, which is the truth. I’ve spent the past 24 hours applying to new jobs and the truth is that I still haven’t fully cooled down ever since I found out about the new GMTL. I’m just really confused and conflicted about all of this and I need some direction on where to go from here.
 
Joined
Jul 26, 2012
Messages
224
That’s the “carrot dangling” for you. Personally after reading all the posts and even your latest one- you have a lot to change if you ever want to be a lead. You expected a coaching so you knew your attitude has been bad. Hell, you couldn’t even pay attention when being spoken to in a conversation.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do either staying with Target or another company. But I feel if you do stay with Target and don’t make changes we will be seeing the same kind of post in another couple months
 
Joined
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That’s the “carrot dangling” for you. Personally after reading all the posts and even your latest one- you have a lot to change if you ever want to be a lead. You expected a coaching so you knew your attitude has been bad. Hell, you couldn’t even pay attention when being spoken to in a conversation.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do either staying with Target or another company. But I feel if you do stay with Target and don’t make changes we will be seeing the same kind of post in another couple months
Enlighten me. What changes do I need to make?
 

commiecorvus

Former Signing Ninja
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Enlighten me. What changes do I need to make?

This is going to be a rough one because you seem to be rather hard to give advice but I will take a shot at it.
A lot of people have tried to help in this thread and you have routinely blown them off.
That takes a lot of hubris considering your lack of experience.

So lets start with how you learn things.
There are people working the floor who may just be common grunts but they know a lot of shit you don't.
They don't want to become leaders because they hate politics but they set the example for the rest of the team.
Those are the people you want to watch.
They know how to work fast and how to do stuff nobody else does.
Even the bosses go to them when things aren't working.
Pick their brains, learn from them, try to be as good as they are, but you don't want to pick up their attitude because you haven't earned it.

Kick ass and take names.
Work as hard or harder than anyone else.
Do the dirty jobs that suck, than do the next one.
Be out front but pay attention to what is happening behind you.
If people are fucking around take a note.
Are they doing it all the time or just taking a couple of minutes.
If they are constantly not doing what they are supposed to, make a joke out of it.
You aren't their boss yet but shame works wonders.

Learn how to talk to people who are older than you with respect.
I ran brigades with chefs who had been cooking twice as long as I had.
If I had ordered them around like a bunch of kids I wouldn't have gotten anywhere.
Be open and honest, the less you try to bullshit people the further you will get.
However, this doesn't mean being rude or shitty.
Kindness and being polite costs nothing.

Pay attention to the small details and fix them yourself without whining about it.
This will play out in the long run.
It will make your job easier and folks will notice when their jobs are easier.

Most of all act like a grownup.
This means understanding that the world doesn't revolve around you and shit happens that you have no control over.
Most people don't care about your problems and are just trying to get through their days without cracking.
Don't make your problems theirs.

I'll stop there since I suspect most of this is going to just annoy you but give it some thought.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Messages
64
This is going to be a rough one because you seem to be rather hard to give advice but I will take a shot at it.
A lot of people have tried to help in this thread and you have routinely blown them off.
That takes a lot of hubris considering your lack of experience.

So lets start with how you learn things.
There are people working the floor who may just be common grunts but they know a lot of shit you don't.
They don't want to become leaders because they hate politics but they set the example for the rest of the team.
Those are the people you want to watch.
They know how to work fast and how to do stuff nobody else does.
Even the bosses go to them when things aren't working.
Pick their brains, learn from them, try to be as good as they are, but you don't want to pick up their attitude because you haven't earned it.

Kick ass and take names.
Work as hard or harder than anyone else.
Do the dirty jobs that suck, than do the next one.
Be out front but pay attention to what is happening behind you.
If people are fucking around take a note.
Are they doing it all the time or just taking a couple of minutes.
If they are constantly not doing what they are supposed to, make a joke out of it.
You aren't their boss yet but shame works wonders.

Learn how to talk to people who are older than you with respect.
I ran brigades with chefs who had been cooking twice as long as I had.
If I had ordered them around like a bunch of kids I wouldn't have gotten anywhere.
Be open and honest, the less you try to bullshit people the further you will get.
However, this doesn't mean being rude or shitty.
Kindness and being polite costs nothing.

Pay attention to the small details and fix them yourself without whining about it.
This will play out in the long run.
It will make your job easier and folks will notice when their jobs are easier.

Most of all act like a grownup.
This means understanding that the world doesn't revolve around you and shit happens that you have no control over.
Most people don't care about your problems and are just trying to get through their days without cracking.
Don't make your problems theirs.

I'll stop there since I suspect most of this is going to just annoy you but give it some thought.
So it's not too late for me? Do you genuinely think that I should take another crack at being promoted?
 
Joined
Jun 15, 2021
Messages
38
I have nothing to add to CartoonPenguin specifically, but I just gotta say, this is an extremely important thread with a lot of valuable information for those that are looking to grow. Despite the hostility of the OP, there's a lot of great advice from veterans and leaders that honestly, anyone can learn from, especially developing team members that stumble upon this thread.

This SHOULD NOT get lost, and I believe there should be some way for this thread to be stickied to the top if anyone can do that. There's too much invaluable advice and other info here, and while this thread is still popping, it won't always be.
 

commiecorvus

Former Signing Ninja
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
18,609
So it's not too late for me? Do you genuinely think that I should take another crack at being promoted?

I can't say for sure.
I don't know the nature of the people managing the place you work.
Some may sincerely want to promote you but may not be able to find a place.
Some may have no idea who the heck you are.
Some might not like you.
What you have to do is make all of that irrelevant.
You need to develop the habits and methods of being a good leader, then worry about being promoted.
If Target turns out not to be the place for advancement that's fine, you learned some useful things.
Once you have those skills under your belt go find a place that will do right by you.
But right now, as they say in video games, git gud.
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Messages
64
I can't say for sure.
I don't know the nature of the people managing the place you work.
Some may sincerely want to promote you but may not be able to find a place.
Some may have no idea who the heck you are.
Some might not like you.
What you have to do is make all of that irrelevant.
You need to develop the habits and methods of being a good leader, then worry about being promoted.
If Target turns out not to be the place for advancement that's fine, you learned some useful things.
Once you have those skills under your belt go find a place that will do right by you.
But right now, as they say in video games, git gud.
Would you happen to know about the potential role that my ETL brought up? Like I said, I wasn’t fully paying attention and I’m not even sure if I heard her right on some things. I just vaguely recall her mentioning our store’s remodel and the term “back end leader”.
 

commiecorvus

Former Signing Ninja
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
18,609
Would you happen to know about the potential role that my ETL brought up? Like I said, I wasn’t fully paying attention and I’m not even sure if I heard her right on some things. I just vaguely recall her mentioning our store’s remodel and the term “back end leader”.

During a remodel there are a lot of temporary lead positions.
They are very temporary, don't make you any more money, can be really stressful (though the whole remodel process can be that), and can lead nowhere.
However, you can also prove yourself as a good leader.
This is a chance to demonstrate that you can do the job and they can count on you.
It's worth for, as I pointed out, if nothing else, the learning experience.
 
Joined
Jun 15, 2021
Messages
38
Are you fucking kidding me? Then what’s the point?!
Bro, In my opinion, Target isn't for you. People that want to develop within retail companies generally want the tenure and to make it into a serious career for some reason, and if that's you, then you'll need to either be patient or find something else. Target has a very strange way of promoting people, and almost everyone knows it. This company is full of false promises, broken processes, and faulty operations; I'm sure you're cognizant of all of these by now. If you're not in the pipeline, the process becomes a waiting game and a competition, and your store leadership AND district essentially have the power to play with you until they feel like dumping you into a position that you may not even ascertain, and then you're dealing with problems all over again.

There are literally SO MANY other companies that are willing to grow and develop leaders, and better yet, you can even apply for a leadership position at another company and go from there with a CLEAN SLATE. You're not indebted to THIS company. As others have alluded to, it's a worker's market; take advantage of all of the money and positions while they're hot and accessible before the market goes down and eventually collapses again.

I honestly can't properly read you, but my guess is that you're either very passionate/stubborn and it's clouding your judgment; you have a personality disorder and can't fully comprehend what people are typing to you, or you're just the biggest troll this website AND Reddit has seen in a while.

Either way, just reflect on what you want IN YOUR LONG-TERM endeavors and assess if Target is really where you want to be. In my view, you're wasting your time here when you could be applying your skills somewhere else. There are so many bad, god awful, cuntish leaders, especially in low-skill jobs, and these people are just trying to tell you the skills THEY recognize in developing strong leaders, but ultimately, people are people. Genuinely stupid and undeserving people get promoted all of the time, this is what I'm talking about regarding the company's promotional practices. That 19-year-old was more than likely easy to mold into a company drone; you're very abrasive, confrontational, and call people on their shit; Target doesn't really like that because you're not a yes man.

I'm just saying, expand your horizons and know your value, this place just doesn't feel like a fit for you because the effort you'd need to "prove" to your leadership that you're ready for a spot can take years, and that would be a waste of your time.
 

commiecorvus

Former Signing Ninja
Staff member
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Messages
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I don

Goddamn, I don’t need a learning experience. I’ve been working here for seven years. I’ve been around the block.

Do you have any experience as a leader? Officially?
You may have been around the block but you haven't hit the marks.
 

lucidtm

beauty/fulfillment
Joined
Apr 16, 2020
Messages
168
I don

Goddamn, I don’t need a learning experience. I’ve been working here for seven years. I’ve been around the block.

Your leaders clearly think you still have learning to do. It's evident by your behavior and immaturity exhibited on this thread that you have learning to do.

"Learning" doesn't just mean "learning to be a leader." Learning could also mean:

Learning how to act.
Learning respect.
Learning to be grateful.
Learning how to talk to people above your position and below it.

I could go on, but I'm hoping you understand. There is a lot more to leadership and learning to be a leader than just being the boss of some people.
 

MrT

Joined
May 9, 2020
Messages
726
Its not too late the job but you need to mature a lot. The job is not hard its glorified babysitting. Your attitude needs to change. You need to lead, you need to cooperate with your other leaders, and you need to set examples. If your being difficult and challenging everything they say they will not promote you. You can challenge and have your own ideas but in the end you have to do what your leader says. There has to be an actual leader in the building for overnights with codes, keys, amd everything. They probably were looming for you to step up there and you didnt. Dont complain to other tms, dont talk shit about your leadership team, and dont blame others for not getting the job. There has been do many people giving advice about the same stuff. If you want actual help and questions ill help, but at this point its luke talking to a tree.
 
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Messages
1,168
I don

Goddamn, I don’t need a learning experience. I’ve been working here for seven years. I’ve been around the block.
Well you need to think about why your ETL would promote you when you already don’t get along with or respect one of your future peers. What are you bringing to the table that offsets hours of drama on a weekly basis? Because as a leader there isn’t anything you could bring to the table that makes up for drama.
 
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