Archived Target sued for death of young man.

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Even if Spot is not held liable ( we still don't know all the details) I would hope that if nothing else this situation teaches us all to be careful and mindful of how we treat people( not only Spot and the management but team members as well ). You never know what struggles a person is battling in their own mind or elsewhere. A smile, a kind word, a simple "are you ok" matters a lot to most people.( I am not saying that the team members in the store in question didn't do that) . We should all keep in mind that no matter who is held liable or isn't for that matter...a young life was cut short (which happens all to often) and that's the real tragedy here.
 
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I have not heard of many lawyers that take these cases out of the goodness of their hearts.

Oh, the lawyer will get paid if they win.
Sometimes as much as a third of the settlement.
But do keep in mind they don't get paid until they win and they are shelling out a lot of money until then.
It's not just their time, which however you might feel about it is worth money, there are court fees, experts to hire, and countless other costs that they cover out of their pocket.
It's a huge gamble for them.
Big payoff if they win but really expensive if they lose.
Since this is going to take a long time and the lawyer is going to be facing a wall of lawyers who get paid everyday just to deal with people like him, I suspect he's doing it for more than just the maybe paycheck.
 
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Oh, the lawyer will get paid if they win.
Sometimes as much as a third of the settlement.
But do keep in mind they don't get paid until they win and they are shelling out a lot of money until then.
It's not just their time, which however you might feel about it is worth money, there are court fees, experts to hire, and countless other costs that they cover out of their pocket.
It's a huge gamble for them.
Big payoff if they win but really expensive if they lose.
Since this is going to take a long time and the lawyer is going to be facing a wall of lawyers who get paid everyday just to deal with people like him, I suspect he's doing it for more than just the maybe paycheck.

Bingo, people always assume lawyers are only money-grubbing fiends looking to exploit anyone and everyone. That's simply not the case, there are lawyers who are like that but every profession has corruption and people with poor ethics. In almost every contingent fee arrangement (which is what most tort actions are taken as) the attorney has to front all the costs. Expert witnesses, filings fees, their own time, etc. all come out of the attorney's pocket and guess what, if they lose almost no attorney goes after their client for those costs they had to upfront, their just out that money. It's a risk to the attorney and if it doesn't pay off their just out of luck.

I think she believed she was wronged and wants people exposed for what happened. The money just usually comes along with it.

Exactly, what happened was likely not criminal and therefore the only way to hold someone accountable for wrongs falling short of criminal actions is through a civil suit. The only way you can "punish" a corporation is through money. This isn't about making a buck, it's about accountability.

For instance, look at the tobacco settlements. Those companies did a lot of really crummy things for years and because their actions weren't criminal (well, most of their actions anyway, lying to congress is definitely criminal) they couldn't be held accountable in any way except for through civil suits. People harp on the fact that the attorneys made so much money on those cases but at the end of the day they were taking on a significant risk and were doing it to at least try to hold a mega-corporation accountable for a change.

I have not heard of many lawyers that take these cases out of the goodness of their hearts.

Meanwhile, if he was taken by the police due to threats he made I don't see how Target could be held at fault. The cops handcuffed him and took him to the station and I have a hard time believing they take orders from Target.

It depends, first off, did the threat actually occur or was leadership simply relying on hearsay of one team member saying he made the threat. What was the nature of the threat, was it legitimate that it needed police intervention (and handcuffing)? How did they present the case to the police? Did they wrongfully imply that he was an imminent threat with access to weapons which would direct the police to put him in handcuffs? Did they intentionally direct the police to a further away office or an indirect route to the office to question him so that other team members could see him handcuffed?

These are all questions which could be raised at a trial and would all be relevant in establishing Target's culpability in this matter. Right now it's all conjecture based on a scant few articles here and there.

As a personal anecdote we had 2 similar incidents occur at my store while I was an APL. The first incident involved a team member reporting that they were threatened by another team member. We watched video of where the incident occurred and we did see a somewhat heated exchange between the 2 but without audio we just didn't know the nature. Instead we continued to monitor the situation and did our best to make sure they never were together anymore.

In the second incident we had multiple team members confirm the threat so we proceeded to terminate him. We got approval from both the HRBP and APBP for the termination and handled it as discreetly as possible. I monitored the team member on video immediately after the termination as he exited the store and never had any need to draw attention to other team members what was going on. We could have handled it with much less discretion including having police there or have me walk him out personally but we chose not to out of respect to the team member.

Could this threat have been handled in any one of those manners, I'm just not sure because I don't know the full scope of the case. Nevertheless, it will be interesting to see where things go from here.
 
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I wrote the story in the Pasadena Weekly it is correct, the lawyer filed a separate claim against the city and in fact did file a lawsuit against Target. Pasadena won't settle on this ... and yes I can also confirm Mr. Gentles was held on a 5150
 
I wrote the story in the Pasadena Weekly it is correct, the lawyer filed a separate claim against the city and in fact did file a lawsuit against Target. Pasadena won't settle on this ... and yes I can also confirm Mr. Gentles was held on a 5150

Thank you for the information.

So the city is also being sued because they got involved in what probably should have been an internal matter for the store and hauled a young man with a disability out in front of the public in handcuffs for his mental health.
Pasadena might not want to settle but they might have to.
 
It sounds like her lawyer is looking at dollar signs...

I love it when people demonize lawyers for "being in it for the money." I guess that's in contrast, for example, to our beloved doctors, who are just in it from the goodness of their hearts, right?

Give me the lawyers, any day. At least I when hired a lawyer one at point, their payment was contingent upon their success.
 
I love it when people demonize lawyers for "being in it for the money." I guess that's in contrast, for example, to our beloved doctors, who are just in it from the goodness of their hearts, right?

Give me the lawyers, any day. At least I when hired a lawyer one at point, their payment was contingent upon their success.
I was referring the mom's lawyer who know what the latest news was.
 
You're making an awful lot of assumptions. While you might be way off, partially correct or exactly right, I'll wait for concrete info until I form an opinion and certainly before I start stating those opinions publicly.
 
You're making an awful lot of assumptions. While you might be way off, partially correct or exactly right, I'll wait for concrete info until I form an opinion and certainly before I start stating those opinions publicly.


I completely understand your hesitancy, it can be embarrassing when new facts come out and your opinions get disproved.
It's happened to me many times.
It's just a simple matter of acknowledging the situation and moving on.

But this case has too many elements that fit into experiences that I have dealt with in my time of working with people with disabilities.
There was a time when I stood down two police officers and refused to give them the name of a client because of confidentiality even with them threatening me.

My grandfather used to like to use the quote of "When you picture a firing squad are you the one a gun or the one against the wall?"
 
My issue was the conjecture being presented. None of us know the details of what happened yet. Bits and pieces are coming out, but we don't know how factual all of that even is. While I appreciate the information being posted here, weaving it into a story of what happened is speculative. That's my opinion.

All I know for sure is a young man has died and that is a tragedy.
 
I worked there (with Mr. Gentles) and he did not, in any way, resist or show any kind of violence towards Target. There was no reason for handcuffs.

There are many facts that are not present here that the public will not be made aware due to the impending lawsuit. But, as someone who was there that day and knew the gentleman, I can safely say that Target did not act in a reasonable manner.
 
Before I come off as sounding heartless I will start with this.


You do not taken out in handcuffs at Target as an employee unless they have a open and shut case against you. Chances are he had been stealing for a very long time and finally the amount had reached a point that AP wanted to have him arrested.

I have never been in an internal bust but I do know that they will try and get you to admit to as much as possible to build an even bigger case against you. They will try and make you sign a paper saying you will payback all that you have taken etc. They call this the easy way. They threaten further action against you if you basically do not admit to wrong doing right than and there. It is possible that he admitted to wrong doing and Target decided to just let the case go. Believe it or not its not always worth Targets time for the smaller stealing crimes.

That also being said I have also watched them walk people around in handcuffs to have the stealing employee show them where they dumped empty packages etc. Again they let you build a case against yourself if you are willing to corporate.

I can guarantee you, with 100% accuracy, he never stole a thing. However, I cannot prove it to you, due to the lawsuit and not giving out details, etc. But, try to take my word on it that this had nothing to do with stealing.
[edit] - oops didn't see that this was (kind of) discussed. I didn't realize I had missed some pages! Carry on!
 
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I can guarantee you, with 100% accuracy, he never stole a thing. However, I cannot prove it to you, due to the lawsuit and not giving out details, etc. But, try to take my word on it that this had nothing to do with stealing.
[edit] - oops didn't see that this was (kind of) discussed. I didn't realize I had missed some pages! Carry on!
Thanks for I work at the store update. Welcome!
 
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I would encourage 'thecashierchick' to pass on the information.

One way would be via Asst Editor Andre Coleman at andrec@pasadenaweekly.com. They publish every week on Thursday and info to them is entirely protected, no one will know who gave it to the paper and I am sure that they would refuse to name a source.

Any blogger/citizen journalist would love to have a good 'in store' source and obviously the lawyers for Mrs Gentles would benefit from such information.

Despite some comments about my giving opinions before all is known, my reading on this is that it comes down to bullying at the store and lack of intervention at the store to stop it.

Also, Mrs Gentles is available on Facebook and PM's to her could pass on info directly.
Everything I know, Ms. Gentles knows. While I have more knowledge about this than (probably) most of the people on this board, I definitely do not know more than her and her lawyers. And I have no interest in talking to the media, in the possible event that it hurts her lawsuit. Thanks for looking out though!
 
I'm finding it hard to believe that AP would be that stupid to instigate an arrest of a TM for something that happened off the clock and outside of target. Then allow him to be questioned by police in the store. What's even harder to believe is the police taking the word of AP and actually arresting him.

If that's the case those AP members will probably be out of a job soon.
 
They handcuffed and emptied his pockets at the entrance to the store?
Before he had even clocked in, they dragged him into the AP office in front of customers and employees?
If true, this isn't about stealing and is totally nuts.
 
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That really sucks.

Someone at my store was fired for stealing a while back. They weren't handcuffed, just asked to come into the manager's office to have a conversation before his termination. No drama, no bullshit, no public embarassment.
 
^Same here if it was low-level theft - stealing food/drinks, pocketing giftcards, lifting low-dollar items - they were called into the ETL's office for a quick convo, given their payout & told to leave without talking to anyone. Usually they were too embarrassed & went quietly.
The ones who committed high-dollar thefts were usually escorted by AP to their office & walked out in cuffs to a waiting police car. It was a short walk but visible.
In all my yrs I only witnessed two of those.
 
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Everything I know, Ms. Gentles knows. While I have more knowledge about this than (probably) most of the people on this board, I definitely do not know more than her and her lawyers. And I have no interest in talking to the media, in the possible event that it hurts her lawsuit. Thanks for looking out though!

As much as we would like to hear details or 'inside info' regarding this case, I think in the long run your posts on the internet could wind up hurting the Gentles defense case. Target lawyers will try to get your testimony throw out & claim you were looking for payment &/or attention by discussing the case in public even though you wisely refrained from going to the media.

It's much better to keep what you know private & only share it with officials who are building a case. And needless to say, your own job security is at risk when you make it known you work at the very store that is under scrutiny! Now every female cashier will be suspected of being a member of this board & potentially the person sharing inside info about this pending lawsuit.

Bottom line: If you want to help Mrs. Gentles &/or if you want to see changes come to how Target deals with employees, save it for the lawyers.
 
one of the things I'm wondering and I feel bad for this because it feels like victim blaming in a sense but

how did he survive the military?? Like, not even combat wise but like there's a lot of intense social situations.

idk
 
one of the things I'm wondering and I feel bad for this because it feels like victim blaming in a sense but

how did he survive the military?? Like, not even combat wise but like there's a lot of intense social situations.

idk


Oddly enough some people in the spectrum do okay in the military.
Things are organized, there are very established rules and they can meet the expectations without too many problems.
As long as there aren't any bullies, it can work out pretty well.
 
one of the things I'm wondering and I feel bad for this because it feels like victim blaming in a sense but

how did he survive the military?? Like, not even combat wise but like there's a lot of intense social situations.

idk
Ummm, couldn't you say the same for cashiering? I mean, think about it: there're a lot of things that someone who is on the Autistic spectrum could struggle with as a cashier.
 
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Don't know him personally, but in my experience working with people that are autistic most like structure and normal daily routines. If they have set expectations most will succeed. The military provides that for the most part.

Working at target where you get told by one leader to do something one way and then the next day another way by someone else, yea I can see how it would be a problem.
 
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