Archived that whole thing about how etls have to be hot and 22

  • Thread starter MrTaskMule
  • Start date
  • Replies 71
  • Views 11K
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

MrTaskMule

Guest
Like, whats up with that? I grow weary of it by the day and I feel if i can understand why I might be less inclined to imbibe a Drano smoothie.
 
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
10
My softlines peers in the district are definitely all vibilicious 22 year old blondes....
 

commiecorvus

Former Signing Ninja
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
18,126
So there's something wrong with being hot now??
I'm a little older--26--but I go to the gym and play sports regularly, shave daily and take the effort to dress nicely for work.
When guests want to speak to a manager, they expect to see someone well put together and groomed. Being nicely dressed and attractive helps me to gain authority in their eyes before I even begin to speak.

What I don't understand are the middle-aged TM's that look like they haven't showered or used a brush for a while. We work in a retail industry and interact with new guests everyday, we care about the zone and visual impact of the products on our shelves; why aren't they concerned with the visual impact of themselves?

I don't think there's hostility towards the idea so much as a question to is it really possible that the best possible candidates were the 'cute ones'?
When I work in a restaurant and notice that all the waitresses are all 'well endowed', I have to think there is something more going on than their stellar waitressing skills, if you get my drift.

I also have to say that your 'gaining authority' by being well turned out depends entirely on the culture.
I lived most of my life in a trailer court and I promise, if you came out with a leather jacket flying colors, a wallet with a chain, a beard and a shaved head, full tat sleeves, the respect level would be much higher.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 19, 2013
Messages
2,272
I don't think there's hostility towards the idea so much as a question to is it really possible that the best possible candidates were the 'cute ones'?
When I work in a restaurant and notice that all the waitresses are all 'well endowed', I have to think there is something more going on than there stellar waitressing skills, if you get my drift.

Not to mention sales reps that go door to door at various businesses, especially in the pharmaceutical industry. I get 1-2 random people every day trying to sell us crap, 90% of them are females in their early to mid 20s. Most of the males I see are with companies where we already have an established account.
 

doxie71

Former Perishables Assistant
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Messages
510
I also have to say that your 'gaining authority' by being well turned out depends entirely on the culture.
I lived most of my life in a trailer court and I promise, if you came out with a leather jacket flying colors, a wallet with a chain, a beard and a shaved head, full tat sleeves, the respect level would be much higher.

But the "culture" IS Target, not a trailer park. A retail company that appeals to 40-something year old, educated women (mainly) with an average household income of 60k. They want managers with credibility that exude confidence and a business mindset. Your reference doesn't fit.

Waitresses are meant to be attractive and/or pleasant to look at. I don't want a disheveled person serving me food. That's unappetizing. Same thing with employees at Express, Neiman Marcus, etc...part of the job is based on looks because they are modeling not only the clothing but a lifestyle.

I wish my STL would allow me to coach TMs on the presentation team that interact with my guests on how to floss, cut their nails and wash dirt off their faces. And before this turns into an economic conversation, I purchased multiple red dress shirts from Express for all of my TL's for Christmas because I know not everyone can afford to pamper themselves...they all come to work nicely presented as well.

We have had several TLs who had to talk to several TMs about personal hygiene, specifically odor problems. Like no one could stand to be near these people and we would even see guests make faces when they got close. One is gone, the other improved.
 
S

sher

Guest
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
All but two of my ETLs are "old"... and the "young" ones are still over 30. Eh, one might be in his late 20s. I think there's this unspoken rule thing where sales people have to look... pleasant, though. I say pleasant, because I don't think you have to have a perfect "traditionally attractive" face to have a pleasant look and aura.

The thing, though, is that being "well put-together" is subjective as hell. You say someone doesn't look like they've used a brush, but hairstyles can be personal. You don't like his/her hair, but they might love it. Personally, I think even if many people hate your hair but you love it and feel confident about it, when that comes across, no one's gonna care. The hair thing hit close to home as a curly, fro-y girl. It's certainly not everyone's cup of tea, but my hair is fierce, hunty.
 

commiecorvus

Former Signing Ninja
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
18,126
I think I have the answer...

I used to recruit ETLs on-campus after I finished the internship program and I noticed the same trend in the candidates I was passing through the first leg of interviews. I noticed that candidates who looked more presentable had a higher level of communication. They were confident, ambitious, and less likely to choke-up during interviews.

The ETL position is nearly 100% social - gaining buy-in, engaging and inspiring, driving for results, collaborating, etc.
I'll pick on Engineering majors because they usually had the most difficulty:
Your typical Engineering major is focused on analytics. They aren't prepared on any social level through their upper-division coursework, and it was almost impossible for me to make eye contact with them while recruiting at career fairs. Communication is a skill that takes much longer than others to fully develop, so as a result Target focuses on hiring candidates that already have this skill with the intention of building up less significant skillsets during training.

It's not that ETL's are all attractive - if you threw them in a t-shirt and jean khaki's without any accessories, hair products, loafers or makeup they'd look like regular TMs. The blonde business major got the job because she was prepared through half her coursework being focused on corporate communication and organizational structure.

ETL's carry themselves professionally knowing that the expectation is for them to LOOK like managers. I think consumed TL hit the nail on the head with this one.

Good solid answer.
Very much in keeping with the feeling that so many of us get concerning the cheerleader/quarterback/popular kids feeling that comes from the ETLs and sometimes from their favorite TLs.
It also explains why so many of them have business and communications degrees.

But I'm still not convinced that there isn't a certain body type and look that Spot is looking for that trumps other skills and qualifications.
And while the comment about the trailer park was a joke you have to admit that in some districts Jules Winnfield is going to get more respect than Ken Cosgrove, no matter how handsome he is or how much product he uses in his hair.

For that matter as someone who had to crawl around on the floor, had to handle stuff that was coated in dust, wore a tool belt, and worked hard enough that even industrial deodorant with body spray wore out by the end of the day, I would have been happy to switch places with some of the ETLs who got to walk around and only deal with customers.
I'm sure a far number of the flow team that people would like to 'clean' up would be glad to as well.
 

bullseyekindaguy

Former logistics/guest experience intern!
Joined
Sep 25, 2013
Messages
308
I think I have the answer...

I used to recruit ETLs on-campus after I finished the internship program and I noticed the same trend in the candidates I was passing through the first leg of interviews. I noticed that candidates who looked more presentable had a higher level of communication. They were confident, ambitious, and less likely to choke-up during interviews.

The ETL position is nearly 100% social - gaining buy-in, engaging and inspiring, driving for results, collaborating, etc.
I'll pick on Engineering majors because they usually had the most difficulty:
Your typical Engineering major is focused on analytics. They aren't prepared on any social level through their upper-division coursework, and it was almost impossible for me to make eye contact with them while recruiting at career fairs. Communication is a skill that takes much longer than others to fully develop, so as a result Target focuses on hiring candidates that already have this skill with the intention of building up less significant skillsets during training.

It's not that ETL's are all attractive - if you threw them in a t-shirt and jean khaki's without any accessories, hair products, loafers or makeup they'd look like regular TMs. The blonde business major got the job because she was prepared through half her coursework being focused on corporate communication and organizational structure.

ETL's carry themselves professionally knowing that the expectation is for them to LOOK like managers. I think consumed TL hit the nail on the head with this one.


But I'm still not convinced that there isn't a certain body type and look that Spot is looking for that trumps other skills and qualifications.

I wouldn't be surprised either.

When I walked into my intern kick-off, I wondered how the heck I got hired. Everyone looked like they just left the set of a Hollister photo shot.

I'm not obese or too terribly heavy, but I could stand to lose a few pounds and I was the heaviest guy there....

I'm self-concious about my appearance anyways... The ETL's are always chatting about the newest diet or new gym they've gone too. I always wonder how I'm going to fit in, should I stay after I graduate.
 
Joined
Jan 16, 2014
Messages
4
not really

I just had to post to this one....I am new to the "break room". I didn't even know it existed, but I live with a techie. I notice something about the etls.....yes, they are all in the early, early 20's, but not hot. The majority are female, they hang together and chit chat about tattoos, boyfriends, etc. They are totally devoted to work and don't generally talk to those lower than them. I found the fastest way to get their attention when a "change" request has been in for over an hour is to turn off my lane light, that brings them over. The majority of them are a little large....what I would give to be able to pack on a few pounds in the back, I have to buy pants in the junior dept. I go to work and smile, show respect, and I have never had a problem with any of them. I am old, so not really a threat. They don't hire old supervisors. haha
 

commiecorvus

Former Signing Ninja
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
18,126
Welcome to The Break Room pita.
I have found that when it comes to peoples interpretation of looks, YMWV but there is a certain consistency to the type of person Spot picks.
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
141
My stores 2 newer ETL's are incredibly attractive, early 20's, females. Very bubbly, to the point that one has been dubbed "Target Princess Barbie". Don't get me wrong; they are amazing, have always had my back, and do whatever they can to help, but, how can I say this tactfully...... they can be, oblivous? may be the right word. Sometimes to the point that I wonder what, other than absurd physical appeal, do they bring to the workforce.
 
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
600
Our new ETL-GE began yesterday. She is 22/23 and in her first day changed several things we've done for a while and picked at tedious things causing many of us at the front and around the store to already dislike her. A young person with so much power lets it go to their head, it's ridiculous. After the internship later this year, if I do well I will be 23 and an ETL in May of 2015, the one goal I hope to achieve is to be the exact opposite of her in the short time I plan to stay with Target.
 
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
83
Our new ETL-GE began yesterday. She is 22/23 and in her first day changed several things we've done for a while and picked at tedious things causing many of us at the front and around the store to already dislike her. A young person with so much power lets it go to their head, it's ridiculous. After the internship later this year, if I do well I will be 23 and an ETL in May of 2015, the one goal I hope to achieve is to be the exact opposite of her in the short time I plan to stay with Target.
If you're resistant to change you might want to re-think participating in the internship. Find something you will enjoy in the long term.
Or, commit to the position you've been offered and actually make a difference in the lives of your team members and guests. It's all or nothing.
 
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
600
Our new ETL-GE began yesterday. She is 22/23 and in her first day changed several things we've done for a while and picked at tedious things causing many of us at the front and around the store to already dislike her. A young person with so much power lets it go to their head, it's ridiculous. After the internship later this year, if I do well I will be 23 and an ETL in May of 2015, the one goal I hope to achieve is to be the exact opposite of her in the short time I plan to stay with Target.
If you're resistant to change you might want to re-think participating in the internship. Find something you will enjoy in the long term.
Or, commit to the position you've been offered and actually make a difference in the lives of your team members and guests. It's all or nothing.

I enjoy working at Target but unless I get offered a position in one of their crime labs, I don't intend on staying. I embrace change and try to make impacts of peoples lives every day, whether it's at work or not.

I do however think even though she is in charge she should keep things the way they are for at least a few weeks before she changes them. Gives her an idea of how things work that way and if she thinks her way is better then at least she tried. I find people who have worked here a long time give more respect to leaders who at least try their way first, college doesn't teach us everything.
 
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
9
The thing about a new ETL GE at this point is if you've been without one for a while they very well may be changing things that were supposed to be done in the interim and weren't touched.
 
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
600
We had a GE up until about a week or two before she started so there shouldn't be much out of best practice.

I am in college too so I get what they teach you but in my opinion, much of how things are done can be learned better through experience rather than a book.
 

commiecorvus

Former Signing Ninja
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
18,126
We had a GE up until about a week or two before she started so there shouldn't be much out of best practice.

I am in college too so I get what they teach you but in my opinion, much of how things are done can be learned better through experience rather than a book.

Provided you don't know what 'business college' is in terms of Target, you probably don't have much to speak toward about your Front End being run on best practice...


Spot's 'Business College' = McDonalds Hamburger University.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top