Archived The Costco Craze - If you ever wonder why TMs make less

[PJ5]

My friend was hired for the food stand at $11 an hour for part time a few years back in NY, $11 damn dollars an hour! I only make fifteen cents over min wage at Target. However half of her shift was spent doing heavy cleaning in the kitchen/sink area because Costco had high standards with the store being clean so she earned that money.

 

[Mhugh220]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/19/reasons-love-costco_n_4275774.html

The company's starting pay is $11.50 per hour, and the average employee wage is $21 per hour.

Also, Costco's CEO makes far less than most executives, with a total compensation package of about $4.83 million in 2012. In contrast, Walmart CEO Mike Duke made roughly $19.3 million during the same year.

I feel Target used to have a good starting pay. Back in 2000, starting pay was around $8.50 when minimum wage was $5.15. I don't think they do this anymore. Seems like they're at $9 an hour 15 years later.

 

[commiecorvus]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/19/reasons-love-costco_n_4275774.html

The company's starting pay is $11.50 per hour, and the average employee wage is $21 per hour.

Also, Costco's CEO makes far less than most executives, with a total compensation package of about $4.83 million in 2012. In contrast, Walmart CEO Mike Duke made roughly $19.3 million during the same year.

I feel Target used to have a good starting pay. Back in 2000, starting pay was around $8.50 when minimum wage was $5.15. I don't think they do this anymore. Seems like they're at $9 an hour 15 years later.

So, what's wrong with that picture?

Isn't it possible for the powers that be to look back and say "Hey what was it that made us a strong company?" and notice just how far away from the basic principles they've gotten?

 

[betzph]

The worst thing Target has going for it is the lack of advancement for employees below the ETL level. I had several TMs who I worked with to try and get them to the TL level, but Target has this fascination with the word development. Like a tm can almost literally never do enough. People are only willing to do so much when they are still getting paid so little. I had two team members who jumped through hoops that my ETLs set forth for them for months, but eventually they got tired of it and admittedly returned to true TM roots and eventually left for slightly higher paying jobs.

I'm an example too. I'm a TL in my second rotation and am already burned out by just the few idiots I've seen brought on as ETLs while I'm left to jump through hoops to even have half a chance to become an ETL.

 

[Backroom81]

I feel Target used to have a good starting pay. Back in 2000, starting pay was around $8.50 when minimum wage was $5.15. I don't think they do this anymore. Seems like they're at $9 an hour 15 years later.

Exactly this. In my area, base pay in 1999 was $7.00. The current base pay at my store is now $7.75, a 10.7% increase. Meanwhile, the consumer price index has risen by 42% during that time frame. That $7.00 in 1999 would be equivalent to making $9.95 today.

Additionally, the scale for annual raises has dropped significantly. Raises used to be a flat $.20-$.60 for my area and since reviews were done individually based on the TMs anniversary date, there weren't limits imposed on how many Ex's and O's you were allowed to give. Therefore, you weren't downgraded to an E just because all the Ex's got spent on capped TMs. 90 day raises used to be a thing too and were scrapped entirely. Raises for promotions have been halved too. There's a couple of TLs at my store who only received $1.50 when they were promoted when it used to be $3.

The part that really bugs me is that even with all of the relative pay cuts over the years, stores only get about 50-65% of the payroll they used to back in the early 2000s. Literally half of our ETL/TL positions have been cut out and coverage is extremely sparse. I will agree that a fair amount of the leadership positions were useless (ETL-Meat, really?) and there was some definite fat trimming that needed to happen but at the same time, the standards we used to hold ourselves to for coverage and presentation have dropped down almost to Wal-Mart levels. Lying and gaming the metrics have become the norm.

 

[Burlseveryday]

I think another problem is the lack of disparity of wages between TM positions. In my mind, it doesn't seem very logical to pay the 16 year old cart attendant that barely fulfills even the basic requirements their job $8.50/hr when you're only going to pay the people who operate crown equipment and sweat balls unloading trucks $9.00/hr. As we all know pay progression is a huge issue. "Hey, you've worked here for 12 years and know how to do everything, we won't promote you to manager cuz of reasons but we will expect that you do management level work for TM pay. Here's $0.40 more per hour than the employee who started yesterday."

For the record, I'm not taking a shot at 16 year olds or cart attendants for that matter but the ones that we hired did not work very hard (and if they did work hard they didn't stay at Target)

 

[sher]

Yesterday, I found out costco gas stations are members only in other states. It isn't members only in nj. I believe it's because we're not a self serve state, checking for Costco cards wastes time. In other states you have to slide your card before you can do anything. We drove by it a couple days ago, though and the line went in circles all around the parking lot. It was nuts! I haven't seen lines at a gas station like that since Sandy! The communication that has to happen when someone else is pumping your gas already adds time.


On topic though, target would never take any of these proposed steps to have happier team members unless Walmart did it first. I think target copies Walmart all the time. They take their ideas and make it look nicer to appeal to a higher end fancy pants (compared to the wm stereotype) type of guest. Wally owned vudu way before target ticket was ever a thought. Ship to store, same day pickup, groceries, superstores, being open on thanksgiving, staying open late on Christmas Eve... Probably more things..

Oddly enough my store was open later than our nearest Walmart

They're not gonna raise pay either unless minimum wage is raised. All the numbers they have to run, there's no way they don't realize that it's next to impossible to live on the rates they pay with the hours they offer. They know and they don't care because everyone else is doing it, and because they aren't required to. I'm sure if anyone ever asked about the pay, they'd probably have some canned response about how it's competitive within retail blah blah jargon jargon.

If none of this makes sense, it's 3am lol and I should've been sleeping 3 hours ago so my thoughts are probably all mixed up and discombobulated.

 

[MrBullseye]

Unfortunately we can't sell alcohol in MD or PA. I often wonder if it's worth it for Walmart to remain open 24 hrs. Unless they figure they're there stocking shelves, what's the harm in being open to customers?

Walmart will also get some business from people working factory/hospital shifts, you would think. They're literally the only place open most places, so it is probably worth it.

I know the company I used to work for had 24 hr stores and they would sometimes go an hour or two with NO customers..

 

[cihyfthedoor]

So, what's wrong with that picture?

Isn't it possible for the powers that be to look back and say "Hey what was it that made us a strong company?" and notice just how far away from the basic principles they've gotten?

Honestly, I don't think the high level executives at corporate give a flying holy fuck about any of that. They're raking in hugely fat and grotesque stacks of cash and piles of options, and they know that even for as low as Target's gone, they're not going anywhere, so they're pockets are just fine.

Is it right? Hell no. But look at Walmart. Worst place in the entire world to shop or work, yet they rake in plenty of billions. Target brass knows this. Consider the whole flawed concept of For-Profit, where the goal is to "make as much money/profit as possible for the members of the board." (Not-For-Profit model of credit unions is best - make enough money to keep the business safe, then invest the rest in your employees and customers, and both of theirs' hapiness). Yes, if they worked their asses off to make Target a killer ass place to shop and work, like apparently Costco is, they'd be even better off. But that's just the thing, it's too much work, would take too long, and they're plenty padded with cash as it is. They are fat, contented, useless house cats. Can't be bothered to work hard when the work vs returns ratio isn't worth it.

Those rich assholes probably don't even shop at Target. Not seriously.

The worst thing Target has going for it is the lack of advancement for employees below the ETL level. I had several TMs who I worked with to try and get them to the TL level, but Target has this fascination with the word development. Like a tm can almost literally never do enough.

Yeah. Yet, there is always a never ending flow of brain-dead air-headed idiots blowing through the ETL ranks like toilet paper because they can haz duhgree so dey is smert. It's better to gently and peacefully quit on amicable terms, if you have a BA/BS, and just reapply some reasonable amount of time after that as an ETL "intern." With the success rate that "program" has, with, what, 80% passing (?), it's a near certain guarantee.

As a normal TM, you basically have to be a shining adonis, a cadillac lexus of men, for a entire month at the very least. 100% flawless in all things. Even then, it's at the whim of the ETL/STLs mood on that particular day when the judgement comes. They didn't get laid last night, or the DTL chewed them out earlier that morning, and suddenly it's "Oh, well, you did ok, but work hard and maybe next time!"

 

[Mhugh220]

As a normal TM, you basically have to be a shining adonis, a cadillac lexus of men, for a entire month at the very least. 100% flawless in all things. Even then, it's at the whim of the ETL/STLs mood on that particular day when the judgement comes. They didn't get laid last night, or the DTL chewed them out earlier that morning, and suddenly it's "Oh, well, you did ok, but work hard and maybe next time!"

It's all about the ETL's mood. When I first started I had an awesome receiver/reverse logistics TM. College graduate, tough skin, smart, and understood retail. Most ETLs told me they disliked him, he was lazy, he was disrespectful, he would eat food in the backroom (stuff that was being thrown out), etc. They wanted him gone. I didn't know anyone so I wasn't going to take their word for it. I looked into it and sort of followed up on him, got to know him, and realized that it was the ETLs that were bat shit crazy. Actually we became pretty good friends because we had the same sense of humor. Anyway- if I didn't show up to defend him he would have been out. Instead, I got 2 other male ETLs to pull for him and get him promoted to a TL (he'd make a great ETL be we all know it's baby steps with Target). Another Sr.TL has been promised ETL for 3 years. Checked back this weekend - still Sr.TL - still having ETL dangled (and this Sr.TL used to be an ETL years ago before leaving for a better opportunity).

This degree requirement Target is going for is killing them. I've met good ETLs and bad ETLs. Mostly the good have either worked from TM to ETL, been with the company for 10+ years, or went to business school because they wanted to work in retail. The bad are the ones who let the title go to their heads - "Executive Team Leader" - you're an executive of squat.