Archived Why are bosses clueless?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Aug 28, 2014
Messages
194
Not all bosses of course. Here was the situation:

I am given the baby food POG at 6am. It is an 8.5 hour transition. My team lead knew I had to leave at 1:30 to avoid going into OT. I reminded her anyway. She said that after lunch, she would be over to help finish. All is good.

So, I get started. Tie in. Batch labels. Put in the pull. Get cleaning supplies. And I dive in hard.

I'm cleaning and adding new dividers. Moving biter biscuits. AND checking dates.

And then the hammer drops. Here comes my ETL. A nice enough guy.

He says ... How's it going? I say ... Fine. Moving baby food.
He ... Well, Dena (the tl) may not be able to come help you, so I need you to get this done by noon so that we aren't behind. Me ... Oh, I'll try. He ... Make it happen, okay?

I won't go into the frustration I felt right then. Whatever.

So, noon rolls around. I am literally on the floor cleaning the back of a basedeck. Something had spilled back there. Probably years ago. There is all kinds of stuff on the floor. Baby food jars with no wrappers. Old signs that had fallen. Outdated baby food.

Up walks the same ETL. Mind you, I've been in communication with my tl during the morning. She knew the situation and where I was at.

He says ... Are you finished?

All I could do was look at him. What I wanted to say is ... What about this picture says "finished" to you? Name three things that shows how "unfinished" I am.

Clueless. It made all the work I did seem worthless.

Meanwhile, I had to go up for backup cashiering 3 times. Watch electronics once.

But none of that matters. Neither, apparently, does doing a good job. Only, making it happen. Getting it done.
 
Joined
May 14, 2013
Messages
405
lol they have no idea what it takes t get things done and done right. im the presentation tl and we were behind in hba(as usual) and my etl said (he was very excited) Ill help! i was like great! now he can see what its all about... we were setting shampooo.. had to pull the stuff off the shelf.. take off shelf liner.. clean... put on new, put up dividers then restock it... he was ike HOLY SHIT! this will take forever! i was like NOW do you see? its not like we can just work magic and whip things up like that... hes much more understanding but other etls are not.. i think each one should have to work with us a whole shift and see what its like. baby food ... i put two people on it and it still take a long time if your doing it right. my stl thinks everything should take a half hour lol
but i get the feeling that you are right.. they just want it done.. doesnt matter how you get it done.
 
Joined
Aug 9, 2013
Messages
550
My ETL does this all the time. He'll be like "I need this this and this done tonight, think you can do it?" And I'll be like errrr I'll try, knowing that there is zero chance I'll get to even one of the extra tasks he wants done.
 
Joined
May 14, 2013
Messages
405
same with different processes... for instance.. salesfloor pathing.. im the only one in my store who knows how to do it and im not supposed to do it.. an etl is. when one of our etls transfered to a new store he emailed me to tell him how to do it cause noone at that store knew how to do it
 

Mhugh220

Former ETL-Logistics
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
829
I'm glad I had awesome TLs who would tell me what they needed to get a job done and were honest about it. I usually set up priorities and we (myself and TLs) evaluated what we could realistically get done today. I would then take the ridiculous demands back to my boss (STL) and tell her what we did, why it was a priority, and what we will do to address the other tasks. You don't always have to complete all of the ridiculous demands but you have to be able to speak to them. Obviously things come up and you're never given all of the resources you need to succeed. ETLs must take their wins when they get them and understand that TMs/TLs can't perform miracles.

Your inability to complete the task is not your fault (well not always). We can only do the best we can with the resources we have. Sorry your leaders don't understand what it takes to finish the job correctly or don't realize that not everything can get done and should appreciate hard work.
 
Joined
Oct 4, 2014
Messages
5
I think the major problem with the ETLs at Target is that they are hired right out of college, given a six week training course-which they never actually do the job-just oversee it and then are given a department or two to oversee. They completely buy into they company line because they have no concept of how long the work takes.
 
Joined
Mar 19, 2013
Messages
1,860
I think the major problem with the ETLs at Target is that they are hired right out of college, given a six week training course-which they never actually do the job-just oversee it and then are given a department or two to oversee. They completely buy into they company line because they have no concept of how long the work takes.
I agree with this. I have always said that if Spot made their etls do the work of a normal team member for two weeks, their whole outlook would change. I also think that if a etl is being trained ie, logistics then they should have to do the usual etl training and then they should have to spend at least a week working flow, a week working backroom and reverse log. They should have to do all the tasks the rest of us do...so they get the whole picture.
 

Mhugh220

Former ETL-Logistics
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
829
I think the major problem with the ETLs at Target is that they are hired right out of college, given a six week training course-which they never actually do the job-just oversee it and then are given a department or two to oversee. They completely buy into they company line because they have no concept of how long the work takes.
I agree with this. I have always said that if Spot made their etls do the work of a normal team member for two weeks, their whole outlook would change. I also think that if a etl is being trained ie, logistics then they should have to do the usual etl training and then they should have to spend at least a week working flow, a week working backroom and reverse log. They should have to do all the tasks the rest of us do...so they get the whole picture.

If the log was trained correctly then they should have done at least a week of each. I was trained in everything hands on logistics. I got dirty, cold, sweaty, tired, etc doing it. I was throwing the truck, backstocking, pulling, pushing, Pfresh, auditing, etc. But I don't think every ETL gets the same training.
 
Joined
Aug 28, 2014
Messages
194
I want to clarify something, as I am the OP. I am not saying ETL's, or anyone else for that matter, do not work hard. If I implied that, I retract the implication. And when I say clueless, it was not a comment on their intelligence. Though I will say, in this instance, how could the average person NOT see I wasn't done??

We all have tasks to complete. People to answer to. Highs and lows.

But I can only speak about my experiences. It just happened to be my ETL in this instance.

But I agree with the common thread here. How can people accurately judge a jobs when they themselves have never had the experience?

It was a very upsetting experience. One that, after 10 years, makes me question my further employment with Target.

Do the same with less. Check dates but don't take time to do it. Say FIFO is important but know, KNOW it isn't being done to save hours.

This is not a good direction for this company.
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
893
I think the major problem with the ETLs at Target is that they are hired right out of college, given a six week training course-which they never actually do the job-just oversee it and then are given a department or two to oversee. They completely buy into they company line because they have no concept of how long the work takes.
I think the major problem is that they are Babies with no idea how to do actual labor, or talk to employees as people. Somewhere in that six week program they encounter the brainwashing session.. You know, the one that allows them to escape from reality and become target cheerleaders, or are those two parts of the training program. Brainwashing 101 and redcard cheerleading for the inept?
 
Joined
Mar 19, 2013
Messages
1,860
I think the major problem with the ETLs at Target is that they are hired right out of college, given a six week training course-which they never actually do the job-just oversee it and then are given a department or two to oversee. They completely buy into they company line because they have no concept of how long the work takes.
I agree with this. I have always said that if Spot made their etls do the work of a normal team member for two weeks, their whole outlook would change. I also think that if a etl is being trained ie, logistics then they should have to do the usual etl training and then they should have to spend at least a week working flow, a week working backroom and reverse log. They should have to do all the tasks the rest of us do...so they get the whole picture.

If the log was trained correctly then they should have done at least a week of each. I was trained in everything hands on logistics. I got dirty, cold, sweaty, tired, etc doing it. I was throwing the truck, backstocking, pulling, pushing, Pfresh, auditing, etc. But I don't think every ETL gets the same training.
No they don't...would be nice if they did. We have a new log etl....and she came in with guns blazing telling us everything we were doing wrong...this and that isn't best practice....then something was said about empty location reports....I heard her ask the another etl,,,what was a empty location report.
 
Joined
Jun 13, 2011
Messages
317
I think the major problem with the ETLs at Target is that they are hired right out of college, given a six week training course-which they never actually do the job-just oversee it and then are given a department or two to oversee. They completely buy into they company line because they have no concept of how long the work takes.
I think the major problem is that they are Babies with no idea how to do actual labor, or talk to employees as people. Somewhere in that six week program they encounter the brainwashing session.. You know, the one that allows them to escape from reality and become target cheerleaders, or are those two parts of the training program. Brainwashing 101 and redcard cheerleading for the inept?

I mostly agree but I think the real problem here is that they are hired & keep THEIR jobs with the expectation that they will follow the company's directives even when they KNOW it is impossible & unfair.

IF ETL's would report back to corporation that their expectations are unreasonable & impossible, corporation would have to make changes. As long as ETLs are willing to work TMs to death & make them feel worthless because they cannot achieve the impossible, corporation will continue to push everyone to the breaking point.

The question is whether employees can survive long enough to see Target was forced to acknowledge they have to make changes & accept that their employees are human beings & not mindless/soulless machines.

ETLs willingly drink the Kool-Aid to keep their jobs. It's not that they are inexperienced or stupid or even callousness for most of them - it's simply a question of a caring more about a paycheck than what you're really giving up (integrity) to draw that check.

I've seen ETLs leave because they couldn't be part of the game without feeling terrible about themselves.
 
Joined
May 9, 2014
Messages
1,026
I think the major problem with the ETLs at Target is that they are hired right out of college, given a six week training course-which they never actually do the job-just oversee it and then are given a department or two to oversee. They completely buy into they company line because they have no concept of how long the work takes.
I think the major problem is that they are Babies with no idea how to do actual labor, or talk to employees as people. Somewhere in that six week program they encounter the brainwashing session.. You know, the one that allows them to escape from reality and become target cheerleaders, or are those two parts of the training program. Brainwashing 101 and redcard cheerleading for the inept?

I mostly agree but I think the real problem here is that they are hired & keep THEIR jobs with the expectation that they will follow the company's directives even when they KNOW it is impossible & unfair.

IF ETL's would report back to corporation that their expectations are unreasonable & impossible, corporation would have to make changes. As long as ETLs are willing to work TMs to death & make them feel worthless because they cannot achieve the impossible, corporation will continue to push everyone to the breaking point.

The question is whether employees can survive long enough to see Target was forced to acknowledge they have to make changes & accept that their employees are human beings & not mindless/soulless machines.

ETLs willingly drink the Kool-Aid to keep their jobs. It's not that they are inexperienced or stupid or even callousness for most of them - it's simply a question of a caring more about a paycheck than what you're really giving up (integrity) to draw that check.

I've seen ETLs leave because they couldn't be part of the game without feeling terrible about themselves.

^^^^100 times this
 
Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Messages
826
I think the major problem with the ETLs at Target is that they are hired right out of college, given a six week training course-which they never actually do the job-just oversee it and then are given a department or two to oversee. They completely buy into they company line because they have no concept of how long the work takes.
I think the major problem is that they are Babies with no idea how to do actual labor, or talk to employees as people. Somewhere in that six week program they encounter the brainwashing session.. You know, the one that allows them to escape from reality and become target cheerleaders, or are those two parts of the training program. Brainwashing 101 and redcard cheerleading for the inept?

I mostly agree but I think the real problem here is that they are hired & keep THEIR jobs with the expectation that they will follow the company's directives even when they KNOW it is impossible & unfair.

IF ETL's would report back to corporation that their expectations are unreasonable & impossible, corporation would have to make changes. As long as ETLs are willing to work TMs to death & make them feel worthless because they cannot achieve the impossible, corporation will continue to push everyone to the breaking point.

The question is whether employees can survive long enough to see Target was forced to acknowledge they have to make changes & accept that their employees are human beings & not mindless/soulless machines.

ETLs willingly drink the Kool-Aid to keep their jobs. It's not that they are inexperienced or stupid or even callousness for most of them - it's simply a question of a caring more about a paycheck than what you're really giving up (integrity) to draw that check.

I've seen ETLs leave because they couldn't be part of the game without feeling terrible about themselves.


The change would be new ETLs, kids out if college in need of money are a dime a dozen.
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
893
All of the fresh faced etl's we have gotten or who have trained at our store in the last year are not ones hurting for money. They are snobby rich kids and I don't think their parents are to proud that they are assistant managers at a big box store.
Whoever is doing the local hiring is in search of the same type of person. Defiantly no diversity anyway.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Messages
1,959
IF ETL's would report back to corporation that their expectations are unreasonable & impossible, corporation would have to make changes. As long as ETLs are willing to work TMs to death & make them feel worthless because they cannot achieve the impossible, corporation will continue to push everyone to the breaking point.

I hear you, but it doesn't work that way. Corp cares about the bottom line.... looking good on paper. It'd be career suicide for the ETL that speaks up.
 
Joined
Nov 14, 2013
Messages
6,950
All of the fresh faced etl's we have gotten or who have trained at our store in the last year are not ones hurting for money. They are snobby rich kids and I don't think their parents are to proud that they are assistant managers at a big box store.
Whoever is doing the local hiring is in search of the same type of person. Defiantly no diversity anyway.

Snotty brats they may be, but they usually have pretty big student loans to match their ego's.. And I am so sick of them.
 
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
477
IF ETL's would report back to corporation that their expectations are unreasonable & impossible, corporation would have to make changes. As long as ETLs are willing to work TMs to death & make them feel worthless because they cannot achieve the impossible, corporation will continue to push everyone to the breaking point.

I hear you, but it doesn't work that way. Corp cares about the bottom line.... looking good on paper. It'd be career suicide for the ETL that speaks up.

Target is built on that fear. Hell, most companies are built on that fear. No one wants to speak up because they know they'll be canned quicker than shit. So instead they let themselves get bossed around, told to do 2 people's worth of work at once, in 5 hours instead of 8, while being exhausted and probably hungry and sick because they're paid minimum wage. (I should shut up now...probably getting a little too red even for Target....)
 
Joined
May 31, 2014
Messages
73
Giving one team member less than 6 hours to do all of baby food is an impossible task. Your TL should know better and should have communicated that issue to your ETL to create a plan. We reset ours last week and I had 3 people setting after someone demerched the whole aisle the night before AND backroom pulled the POG. This is because I yelled about to my ETL until he got tired of it and gave in.
 

oath2order

Scary Socialist
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
10,282
Hell, I just love the fact that the ETL-GE at my store worked his way up from TM to ETL, and hell, my new STL was originally hired as a cart attendant or flow, I don't remember which, but he did both, then flow TL, then ETL-4AM or whatever it's called, then STL.

I love when you have the ETLs and the STLs who have worked their way up.
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
20
Hell, I just love the fact that the ETL-GE at my store worked his way up from TM to ETL, and hell, my new STL was originally hired as a cart attendant or flow, I don't remember which, but he did both, then flow TL, then ETL-4AM or whatever it's called, then STL.

I love when you have the ETLs and the STLs who have worked their way up.

Couldn't agree more. Business college must only teach so much because you can really tell the difference between those who have worked their way up and those who haven't.
 

OopsChargeback

who knew that box was full of glass?
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
111
I catch the same kind of flak on flow. After I finish bowling everything out, I typically start working plastics and baby stuff off the floor. In my store, those sections in particular get super messed up every day after I leave, as if someone decided to rearrange half the items on the shelves into incorrect locations, or someone else just put way too much of some items on the shelf, affecting the number of facing items for adjacent products and just generally making the areas look like crap.

So I fix them. I match up UPCs on items with the tags on the shelves, put the correct number of facing items in the right places, double check for second locations on endcaps, and I put items that do not fit on an appropriate vehicle to take to the backroom when I'm finished. While I'm doing those things, correcting someone else's mistakes instead of just leaving the area messed up, my TL or ETL will often come by and grill me about why there's still boxes on the floor and why I'm screwing around instead of doing my job. Guhh. I thought part of doing my job was making sure shelves are properly stocked instead of incorrectly flexed to shit. My bad. It'd be done much sooner if I didn't have to fix others' numerous mistakes every single day.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top