Archived "You don't ever tell me no."

[Serri330]

My Team lead is at it again!

The other day a coworker of mine was helping a guest sign up for a redcard. However he had a form of ID that she wasn't sure was accepted. She called for our TL to come to electronics. He asked if he could switch to 4 instead. She responded, "No, I need you to come to electronics, it's for guest first." He proceeded to come over and help the guest. Then, while the guest was still there and several other TMs were around, he turned to her and said, "You don't ever tell me no."

After berating her a little more, he THEN pulled her into his office, where he continued to tell her she's not allowed to tell him no, and that she embarrassed him in front of the guest and over the walkie, and demanded she take responsibility and apologize, which she refused to do, as she felt she did nothing wrong. He then coached her for this. After several minutes, she started getting angry and asked if this was all he wanted to talk about and that, if that was so, she didn't want to talk to him anymore, as he was raising his voice at her. He then said, "I decide when this conversation is over." She ended up walking out of the office.

She ended up speaking to HR about what happened, and expressed her concerns and how she felt that she didn't deserve a coaching, didn't think she needed to apologize, and that the TL was overreacting and was disrespectful to her, especially in how he basically yelled at her in front of guests and other TMs.

Several hours later, one of our LODs called her into her office. Without asking her side of the story or how she felt, the LOD told her that she needed to take responsibility for what she did and apologize to the TL. She also told her that talking to HR was akin to 'gossiping' and that if she continued to do that, she would be coached. She then told her from now on, if she has any problems whatsoever, she was only allowed to come to her with them, and if she went to anyone else, whether they be another LOD or HR, it would also be viewed as 'gossiping' and was again threatened with a coaching should she do so. Furthermore, she told her that if she 'gossiped' to anyone about what had happened that day, she would be coached for 'stirring the pot'.

I feel like this is incredibly wrong on so many levels. At this point, my coworker is so terrified that she'll be coached if she goes to anyone about this, that she doesn't know what to do. Any advice on how to handle this?

 

[MisterLogistics]

Integrity Hotline. Your store's leadership is messed up.

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

Called the gstl to electronics! That's what I would done. Some tl's avoid guests when possible, then put sugar coa it. I don't! I would ask for details first & then for help. The coaching I am not certain on.

 

[frontendwizard]

Last i heard HR was there to listen to those incidents and help.

 

[Barcode]

I'm sorry but TM is just as wrong as TL (who is techincally more in the right).

People at my store will say "Switch to 3/4" all the time when being called up, and its usually to get information on WHY they are being called up. I will sometimes ask Service Desk to switch to 4 if I'm far away; sometimes its not even for issues that a guest is waiting on. It was incredibly rude for the TM to say "NO, its for guest first" publicly on channel 1, and if I was the TL in question I would have coached her too. Technically the TL is right, TMs shouldn't be directly saying "NO" to a TL; if they have a problem with a request they should discuss it in private with the TL in question. If I pulled that kinda ************ with one of my Team Leads I would be PREPARED to receive a coaching.

The LOD pretty much hit the nail on the head. I'm a bit confused why the LOD used the word "gossiping" though? Then again this story has probably filtered through several people by now.. Clearly the coached TM is the one gossiping since you have stated that she is a "co-worker" This incident should be kept private between Her, Her TL, and the LOD. Informing other Target TMs of coaching incidents is a big no-no.

Integrity Hotline. Your store's leadership is messed up.

Oh please....


Anyways, moral of the story: Don't publicly disagree with your TL over the walkie on Channel 1. You can and PROBABLY will be coached for insubordination.

 

[Rock Lobster]

I'm sorry but TM is just as wrong as TL (who is techincally more in the right).

People at my store will say "Switch to 3/4" all the time when being called up, and its usually to get information on WHY they are being called up. I will sometimes ask Service Desk to switch to 4 if I'm far away; sometimes its not even for issues that a guest is waiting on. It was incredibly rude for the TM to say "NO, its for guest first" publicly on channel 1, and if I was the TL in question I would have coached her too. Technically the TL is right, TMs shouldn't be directly saying "NO" to a TL; if they have a problem with a request they should discuss it in private with the TL in question. If I pulled that kinda ************ with one of my Team Leads I would be PREPARED to receive a coaching.


Oh please....

We can't tell from this situation... Its really something I would have had to be present for to understand... But from the sounds of the post the TL asked if they could just switch to 4 instead of coming back (which wouldn't have worked)... I think that from the sounds of it, both sides of the story are getting exaggerated (I have never actually heard a TL YELL at someone)... But it just sounds like they made a mountain out of a mole hill, and that the electronics TM probably has other issues working against her (and not just this one situation out of context)... If the perception is she is negative, spreads rumors, and tells TLs no all the time, then that is stemming from more than just a one time walkie incident... Just my opinion...

 

[Barcode]

We can't tell from this situation... Its really something I would have had to be present for to understand... But from the sounds of the post the TL asked if they could just switch to 4 instead of coming back (which wouldn't have worked)... I think that from the sounds of it, both sides of the story are getting exaggerated (I have never actually heard a TL YELL at someone)... But it just sounds like they made a mountain out of a mole hill, and that the electronics TM probably has other issues working against her (and not just this one situation out of context)... If the perception is she is negative, spreads rumors, and tells TLs no all the time, then that is stemming from more than just a one time walkie incident... Just my opinion...

Yeah, hard to know what really happened since this has been through the gossip mill already before it reached us here....

Still stand by this though:

Don't publicly disagree with your TL over the walkie on Channel 1. You can and PROBABLY will be coached for insubordination.

 

[CIHYVS]

I'm sorry but TM is just as wrong as TL (who is techincally more in the right).

People at my store will say "Switch to 3/4" all the time when being called up, and its usually to get information on WHY they are being called up. I will sometimes ask Service Desk to switch to 4 if I'm far away; sometimes it’s not even for issues that a guest is waiting on. It was incredibly rude for the TM to say "NO, its for guest first" publicly on channel 1, and if I was the TL in question I would have coached her too. Technically the TL is right, TMs shouldn't be directly saying "NO" to a TL; if they have a problem with a request they should discuss it in private with the TL in question. If I pulled that kinda ************ with one of my Team Leads I would be PREPARED to receive a coaching.

IMO - Team Member needed a coaching for the insubordination over the public channel 1. Sometimes employees, especially newer ones under a year or two, forget that it isn't just EVERY Target worker can hear tension over the walkies but most of the Guest can as well. When my store is down to a critically low number of working radios, only critical Leadership checks them out. Even in that situation, those 7-10 walkies can act like a loudspeaker and project communication long distances. I was monkey stomped by my first STL when I first felt comfortable enough to make a joke on the walkie and forgot that everyone could hear it. So yes, I think the TM needs to be retrained/reminded that we only use Target Talk over the airwaves, especially channel 1. Anything else needs to go to another channel or make a rendezvous happen. I also think the TM now understands that if ANY potential conflict possible coaching situation might occur, use the buddy system immediately. Then you have witnesses (so the higher up the chain the better) and then document DOCUMENT everything afterwards, even if you have to do it after work or on a break. It is not working off the clock per our DTL. This protects the TM and puts the responsibility on the TL where it should be so a more experienced decision can be made (ok most TLs).

BUT

That TL should have his head thumped by his ETL, HR, and the STL. The TM probably could have avoided a coaching by properly challenging her leadership (not immediately on the Sales Floor or while there are Guest/task to be dealt with) in a professional way. This would be an outstanding time for the more experienced TL to not only VERBALLY chat with the TM about the mistake over the walkie, but to also demonstrate the benefits of having an open communication process between the command ranks. This TL failed miserably by 1) loosing his professionalism on the Sales Floor and putting the Brand as risk in front of Guest 2) not taking non-situational conversation off-line 3) demonstrating the wrong way to communicate 4) showing how much of an a-hole he is and discrediting himself as an approachable Leader 5) having any communication, especially with an employee of the opposite gender, about performance and corrective actions without a third party 6) loosing his professionalism by not seeking partners before the situation escalated to where unprofessionalism occurred 7) gossiping himself to his Leadership and peers 8) discouraging any TM from approaching HR for conflict resolution 9) not taking partnership with HR after both sides have met privately to resolve the conflict 10) utilizing a system of back channel communication that gives the TM a sense of being "Ganged up on" with no outlet for resolution and 11) getting outside and non-involved or unnecessary parties involved (LOD) for such a minor conflict in the grand scope of the store.

I know we are only hearing one side of the story from the low man on the totem pole but this situation sounds like they threw BP out the window. I would totally understand if this TM wanted to leave the company over this which is sad because it really isn't a complicated problem to address. And I would be careful with threatening the Team Hotline call. It's not as democratic or a good shoulder to cry on as most believe.

By the way, I have had to protect myself by documenting everything and I found this guy's website very helpful. Basically he created these time and task management forms to print off and use at work. I keep track of everything that happens during my shift in 15 minute intervals so both my boss(es) and I can have a crystal clear picture on where my time goes everyday, who task me with what and at what priority they want it done, and all the little things that add up each day that detract from the total expected workload (Guest service, team lifts, Guest carry outs, "hey can you help me do this for 5 minutes..").

http://davidseah.com/productivity-tools/

 

[invictustaylor]

Last i heard HR was there to listen to those incidents and help.

lol my store didn't have an hr for about 5 months because of "headcount." And yeah I think it's more common than not for a target stores leadership to be FUBAR-ed (lol u know how target loves acronyms). I've been a long time lurker on these sites and I've noticed the only people who stand up for target are ETLs or people paid by target to spread disinformation on the interwebs!

 

[tellmeaboutatime]

Target has an open door policy, period. If a team member feels for any reason that they need to speak with someone about a situation that happened in the store they have every right to go to any leader they are comfortable with and voice their concerns. This team member went to HR and voiced their concerns. The HR from what I read did not take sides but rather listened, which is what they should do. Any TL or ETL telling a team member they are not "allowed" to speak to anyone else is plain wrong. Also anytime you feel uncomfortable with a leader during a coaching, it is your right to ask if HR can sit in on the conversation. to threaten a team member with corrective action for going to HR is a huge violation of the open door policy.
The actual situation was handled poorly on both sides. When asked to go to 4 the team member should have complied and briefly stated that she needed help with a red card. The TL should have either offered to come right over (best case) or asked if a GSTL was available to help. To humiliate anyone over the walkie is inexcusable.

 

[Barcode]

lol my store didn't have an hr for about 5 months because of "headcount." And yeah I think it's more common than not for a target stores leadership to be FUBAR-ed (lol u know how target loves acronyms). I've been a long time lurker on these sites and I've noticed the only people who stand up for target are ETLs or people paid by target to spread disinformation on the interwebs!

Disinformation at its finest here.... Majority of posters here are TMs and some TLs. As for myself, only a TM.

 

[stupid rules]

After reading this my first question is - Why didn't the Tm just switch to 4 like the TL asked? (Do TM's honestly realize how much TL's and ETL's are called to come here and come there and 90% of the time it can be solved on the walkie)

I would have coached her for her actions. I am finding the story about the TL yelling and the ETL threatening her if she talks to HR to be complete BS. It's made up crap to try and make the TM look good (I may be wrong but in my experiences it's the TM in trouble who makes the biggest fuss). The TM should go in, apologize to the TL and grow up.

 

[buliSBI]

Not saying I don't believe it...but its 3rd party info. But it sounds to me like a simple breakdown of communication between the TM and TL.

If indeed the TM was told to apologize by the LOD and TL, then a call to Integrity Hotline needs to done. TLs & LOD need to be level headed and take matters of discussion off the floor. They should never raise their voice in no matter the aspect. And then the TM be told by the LOD that for now on, all matters or problems now have to go through that one person. Store management needs to be unbiased and have an open door. The HR is supposed to be the contact when you have a problem with leadership.

I would say at most have the TM talk to the STL, if the STL was not involved in situation. Have them honestly talk to the STL about the situation, and ask for feedback about the situation.

 

[talan123]

Linky- is your friend.

The team member did the right thing, there is enormous pressure in electronics to speed things up, especially when you are processing a red card. Besides she wasn't saying no to him, she was saying no to the idea that switching channels would get anything done.

For the executive to come down like that on a team member... That's an entirely different beast that needs special handling.

 

[commiecorvus]

Linky- is your friend.

The team member did the right thing, there is enormous pressure in electronics to speed things up, especially when you are processing a red card. Besides she wasn't saying no to him, she was saying no to the idea that switching channels would get anything done.

For the executive to come down like that on a team member... That's an entirely different beast that needs special handling.

Also interesting to know if he has a habit of brushing off people who need help.
The executives handling of the situation as reported was completely wrong.

 

[invictustaylor]

Disinformation at its finest here.... Majority of posters here are TMs and some TLs. As for myself, only a TM.

Reading Comprehension Alert. A majority of posters here are neutral or negative in their stance towards spot.

 

[invictustaylor]

Yeah, hard to know what really happened since this has been through the gossip mill already before it reached us here....

Still stand by this though:

oh and there's no doubt in my mind you're a teamlead lol!

 

[MisterLogistics]

Oh please....

"Oh please", indeed.

1. A TL telling a TM, "You don't ever tell me no." That's not a correct thing for a TL to say, and depending on the tone, could have sounded threating, too.

2. Embarrassing a TM (on purpose) in front of a guest.

3. An ETL telling a TM that talking to HR is "gossiping". WTF?

These are integrity issues, and they are exactly what the Integrity Hotline is there for.

 

[Barcode]

Reading Comprehension Alert. A majority of posters here are neutral or negative in their stance towards spot.

I'm sorry, but some of us try and enjoy our jobs, and maintain a positive attitude.

oh and there's no doubt in my mind you're a teamlead lol!

If you had any reading comprehension, you would see that I am a GSA, which is a TM position.


Defend the TM all you want, but even with the vague details that we have, the TM started the problem by publicly humiliating their TL over channel 1 to the ENTIRE STORE, and in front of a guest. That is a lot more serious compared to the TL reprimanding the TM in front of the same guest. Also said TM has been spreading information regarding their coaching(s) to their friend(s) at their store, which is how we learned about this event in the first place. Disagree with me if you want, but discussing corrective action with your co-workers is unprofessional. Remember that we are only hearing the TM's side, and even then, not directly. If we heard the TL's side, I guarantee you it would sound entirely different (not saying it would be unbiased either).

 

[MisterLogistics]

I've never met a GSA that doesn't have that holier-than-thou, Spot-lovin' attitude, like most TLs and ETLs.

 

[GlobalTargetTM]

Linky- is your friend.

The team member did the right thing, there is enormous pressure in electronics to speed things up, especially when you are processing a red card. Besides she wasn't saying no to him, she was saying no to the idea that switching channels would get anything done.

For the executive to come down like that on a team member... That's an entirely different beast that needs special handling.

At face value, I wouldn't have coached the TM. It sounds like she either was having a tough time, or needed to be Fast. However if it was done with attitude over the walkie for everyone to hear, that would be different. If first offense I'd just pull her aside later on and give a friendly reminder using good business communication...

"Hey, I noticed you seemed a little irritated earlier when you called for help. Is anything wrong? Is there anything I can do to help?" after that depending on circumstances you could suggest it as best practice to always switch to another channel when calling for someone. At my old store, anytime we wanted to get a hold of someone we had to ask them to switch to another channel, so we never really had that issue.

As a TL you are a supervisor sure, but you should be a bit more caring for those under you. Most didn't get into that position just to act like an ass. (At my old store, some did seem to get into that position for that reason lol)

All that being said, her store leadership is dysfunctional. I can't even imagine what working there is like.

 

[Formina Sage]

I've never met a GSA that doesn't have that holier-than-thou, Spot-lovin' attitude, like most TLs and ETLs.

Gee I almost forgot that no employees are allowed to enjoy their jobs. Furthermore, that attitude has been noted as a regrettably important part of getting ahead in the company. Welcome to real life, where bull************ting and getting lucky pay off just as often, if not more often, than honest hard work!

 

[GlobalTargetTM]

Gee I almost forgot that no employees are allowed to enjoy their jobs. Furthermore, that attitude has been noted as a regrettably important part of getting ahead in the company. Welcome to real life, where bull************ting and getting lucky pay off just as often, if not more often, than honest hard work!

This is why I laugh at the stupidity of millions of people. Having that level of dysfunction in any business reduces profitability ten fold. There are millions of people selling their companies short by cutting corners and promoting idiots while they burn out their best workers. It's all because the average business professional has a short term view. Luckily we still live in a (somewhat) free world and can form our own businesses to compete... haha yeah right. American consumer mentality is so messed up compared with the rest of the world it isn't worth it.

 

[SrTL]

"Oh please", indeed.

1. A TL telling a TM, "You don't ever tell me no." That's not a correct thing for a TL to say, and depending on the tone, could have sounded threating, too.

2. Embarrassing a TM (on purpose) in front of a guest.

3. An ETL telling a TM that talking to HR is "gossiping". WTF?

These are integrity issues, and they are exactly what the Integrity Hotline is there for.

This 100%. The leadership handled this situation completely wrong and did not follow Target policy at all.

 

[SuzyTarget]

Wow, this topic sure seems to be generating a lot of heat.
It seems to me the TM’s refusal to change channels was definitely out of line and petty. It doesn’t even make any sense. I can’t think of a good reason to ever refuse to change channels, but the TL’s response to the act was wildly out of proportion. No disrespect to your opinion, Imerzan. I do agree with your general take on the matter but I don’t think the refusal rises to the level of “humiliating”. If the TM said something like, “No, I’m not going to four, you bleeping so and so” , that would be a different matter, but I think what the TM said merely qualifies as irritating and inappropriate, not humiliating. If the TL felt humiliated, I think that TL may be too thin-skinned to work in such a people-centric job. I think the TL’s response should have been to privately explain why it inappropriate and insubordinate, and then have a conversation with the TM about how to do better next time. Too many TL’s see coachings as strictly opportunities to yell at TMs for “bad” behavior and don’t ever use them as tools to help TMs (as well as the TLs themselves-- TLs should be willing to listen to and learn from TMs) do better. That approach would have avoided involving higher-ups and would have made the TM feel involved in the solution and given her a dignified opportunity to take ownership of her mistake instead of feeling like the victim of an out-of-control TL.