It’s time!

A for instance: certain workers coming in late, taking long lunches, and leaving early, consistently, and never being called to task for it. This is when I was a long-term temp employee on an assignment for a very large unionized organization. When I asked how they got away with it, I was told that it was so difficult to fire a union employee that the higher-ups didn't think it was worth all the hassle for anything less than something egregious. Yet, their co-workers seem to be expected to pick up their slack.
Another: some workers were told to stop working so hard because it made the rest of them look bad. I didn't work there, but trust the source - my friend was part of a team that really busted their butts and did a really good job. Problem was that their hard work pointed out that other teams in the company were lazy in comparison. They were "teased" in a rather pointed way to knock it off. But the hard-working team wasn't paid any better; in fact, because they had less seniority, they were paid less.
One from my own family: my dad was helping my brother as brother was remodeling a house. (He used to buy one fixer-upper at a time, do all the fixing up himself, and then sell it.) Brother was pushing to get a lot done, Dad was "What's the big rush? We have all day." This was after 45+ years as a union member. Brother was more like "Time is money, so get a move on." Dad did good work, but he was slow and didn't see how that was a problem. He could have got more done, just didn't see why it mattered.
I could go on, but those are the ones that come to mind.
If we had unsafe working conditions, were subjected to abusive behavior, or some other terrible actions on the part of management, I might think differently.

Nothing wrong with any of this. You are a very delusional person if you think working 150% at all times, in a manual labor job where your body is being damaged, is something to be proud of. The company isn't going to pay you more for it.
 
Insurance is a part of life these days. People buy medical, dental, vision, life, homeowners or renters, car, sometimes boat, aircraft, pet, collection or other types of insurance to protect themselves against loss. Union dues are employment insurance. Union dues are totally worth it because the Union protects your job, wages, working conditions, provides you with insurance, fights for higher wages and provides help with grievances. All reasons why Target hates them so much.
Serious question, but I've been told that union jobs are anti team work. Is this true?

For example if someone who is loading the truck needs help from someone who is picking orders, are they allowed to help out? Or is it "not their job"?

Also does it make it harder to deal with poor performance? I have never had any issues or wished that I had someone to help me fight for my job or protect my job. I guess I've been lucky.
 
Serious question, but I've been told that union jobs are anti team work. Is this true?

For example if someone who is loading the truck needs help from someone who is picking orders, are they allowed to help out? Or is it "not their job"?

Also does it make it harder to deal with poor performance? I have never had any issues or wished that I had someone to help me fight for my job or protect my job. I guess I've been lucky.

I wouldn’t call it anti-team work. Its old school team work, where instead of giving each TM a job but pulling them away from it constantly to do someone else’s job because hours are cut to the bone and no area is fully staffed, a Union shop is more fully staffed and each TM has the opportunity to finish their job to support the team so that everything gets done. Its true that under unionization cashiers cashier, sales floor TMs work sales floor, price change does price change, fulfillment does fulfillment, etc., but it’s also true that TMs have more hours to complete their workload and are allowed to do the jobs they were hired for. This builds a stronger, happier team, because it eliminates the resentment that people have when they are constantly sent to help in other areas leaving them unable to complete their own tasks, yet being held responsible by management when those tasks remain unfinished.

It is also easier to tell who is slacking because there is more concrete accountability. There are rules for dealing with slackers, they do not get a free ride unless management allows them to through their own inaction.

The Union does fight for the Union member who is the target of unfair treatment by management. Having the Union behind you that situation would be a Godsend, because in a non-Union workplace like Target no one will be. Forget the Hotline or anything else, you’re on your own and management holds all the cards. The Union evens things up and gives you a fighting chance.😁
 
where instead of giving each TM a job but pulling them away from it constantly to do someone else’s job because hours are cut to the bone and no area is fully staffed, a Union shop is more fully staffed and each TM has the opportunity to finish their job to support the team so that everything gets done
So you mean to tell me there are never unforseen circumstances? A call off or a surprise delivery that just has to be put off because no union employee for that task is available? Not everything goes according to schedule and shit happens. I'm not entirely sure how a DC works, but I'm sure there are instances where this union rule can be a pain in the ass. It doesn't sound like a "team" I'd want to be apart of let alone pay to be apart of.
 
So you mean to tell me there are never unforseen circumstances? A call off or a surprise delivery that just has to be put off because no union employee for that task is available? Not everything goes according to schedule and shit happens. I'm not entirely sure how a DC works, but I'm sure there are instances where this union rule can be a pain in the ass. It doesn't sound like a "team" I'd want to be apart of let alone pay to be apart of.

I work a union job right now and my duties look nothing like my job description but that's another story.
The main point is right now we are having a hard time filling positions so I am jumping in all over the place to be backup.
My union has no problem with this as long as the work I'm doing doesn't fall into a management category or something else that I should be paid more for.
In other words all the people who are kept dancing on the end of strings being told they will be TL some day but kept doing the work of a TL?
Yeah, that ain't happening.
 
Counterpoint:

“Suppose that, at a given moment, a certain number of people are engaged in the manufacture of pins. They make as many pins as .....​

I must be especially dense today, because I don't get how this applies to what we do at Target. Having an over-abundance of a commodity in an indication to switch to the manufacture of another product, not to keep churning out more of something no one needs more of. Likewise, shifting workers to different tasks that need doing if their work load is lighter than usual.
Unless it's the cashier at my store who gabs with guests incessantly even when the GS TL is calling for back-up multiple times in one shift? How about everyone pulls their own weight, helping out where needed? We don't need to be a union shop for that to happen.
 
You think this isn’t going on now in our buildings? target tends to shy away from firing, even without a union. the appeal, at least to me, would be taking preferences and favoritism out of reviews and bonuses. everyone treated the same, because is in writing, in the contract.
Oh, I wouldn't say this doesn't happen now. In fact, I've witnessed it multiple times with certain TMs being treated very differently by the same TL, depending on their relationship. Like the same movies or sports or whatever and you're golden, whether or not you're a good worker. Don't play the suck-up game and be prepared to get shorter shifts or treated poorly - but nowhere near illegally - and be gaslighted. (So glad that particular TL is no longer at my store.)
Being unionized wouldn't keep favoritism from happening. Maybe it should, but it wouldn't. It'd just be expressed in different ways.
 
Does that make your dad's approach bad?
I think you'll find that you become an old carpenter and don't lose your fingers or toes by being more calm and careful.
I can't tell you how many craftsman we get in DVR who have destroyed their bodies by working at killer speeds all their life.
Sigh. I'm so tired of people making assumptions about other people they don't actually know. My brother doesn't work at "killer speeds" - he's done all kinds of work and still has all his fingers and toes, hasn't electrocuted himself or fallen off a roof, etc. He's careful, probably at least in part because he usually works alone. His body is in no worse shape than anyone who's done a lot of physical labor, probably better because he keeps himself fit, and we're both nearing retirement age.
My dad's approach to helping my brother was a mismatch at best.
A non-construction work example: A housemate and I went grocery shopping together once. She's what I'd call a recreational shopper - likes to wander, chat with everyone, takes a l-o-n-g time. I have my list, cross things off as I go, and get out the door. Shopping together was a mistake - I felt like it was taking forever and she didn't appreciate me rushing her along. Nothing wrong with either method, but we didn't grocery shop together again.
My dad did fine work as an electrician, but his approach was ingrained after working 40+ years in union shops. My brother's approach is still safe but completely different because he's self-employed and making his own decisions about how he gets his work done.
 
It is also easier to tell who is slacking because there is more concrete accountability. There are rules for dealing with slackers, they do not get a free ride unless management allows them to through their own inaction.
Depends how the contract is written. Some can "protect" the workers so much that it's nearly impossible to fire someone even when it's completely deserved. Or the contract can make it so the worker can stretch out a grievance process and work the system to their advantage, even if they're in the wrong.
There's no perfect work place, unionized or not. And I don't believe that Target being unionized will make my life better.
 
Sigh. I'm so tired of people making assumptions about other people they don't actually know. My brother doesn't work at "killer speeds" - he's done all kinds of work and still has all his fingers and toes, hasn't electrocuted himself or fallen off a roof, etc. He's careful, probably at least in part because he usually works alone. His body is in no worse shape than anyone who's done a lot of physical labor, probably better because he keeps himself fit, and we're both nearing retirement age.
My dad's approach to helping my brother was a mismatch at best.
A non-construction work example: A housemate and I went grocery shopping together once. She's what I'd call a recreational shopper - likes to wander, chat with everyone, takes a l-o-n-g time. I have my list, cross things off as I go, and get out the door. Shopping together was a mistake - I felt like it was taking forever and she didn't appreciate me rushing her along. Nothing wrong with either method, but we didn't grocery shop together again.
My dad did fine work as an electrician, but his approach was ingrained after working 40+ years in union shops. My brother's approach is still safe but completely different because he's self-employed and making his own decisions about how he gets his work done.

Fair enough.
If that's the way you had framed it in the first place I would have been totally supportive.
Good workers should be able to pick a pace that works well for them.
The speed running of projects that corporations have forced on people has made work more dangerous and psychologically destructive.
 
Back
Top