Archived Recently termed ETL Does this make any sense?

[Tessa120]

But since Target seems to believe that it's better for TMs to know and do all the processes, start to finish, how long are they going to keep ETLs with separate departments instead of making them E2E as well? Yeah, crazy expecting an ETL to manage everything from HR to logistics to food safety to budgeting, but that's not that much more crazy than one TM doing everything from unload to pricing to basket filling to customer relations to stocking.

 

[Nikodemos]

Average ETL salary is 70,000 times 2 ETLs = 140,000

So
140,000 divided by 52 weeks per year = 2,692 divided by (2 more dollars per hour to equal 15) = 1,346 divided by (30 hours per week for average TM) = 44 TM to get 15 per hour

Makes sense to get rid of 2 ETLs = 44 TMs at 30 hrs per week st 15 per hour.

Lol bye bye bye

Your math is way off.

2 ETLs make $140,000/year

6 TMs making $15/Hr x 30 Hours/week x 52 weeks = $140,400/year.

So it is cheaper to fire ETLs and replace them with hourly workers. but it ain't by a factor of 22.

 

[qmosqueen]

Your math is way off.

2 ETLs make $140,000/year

6 TMs making $15/Hr x 30 Hours/week x 52 weeks = $140,400/year.

So it is cheaper to fire ETLs and replace them with hourly workers. but it ain't by a factor of 22.

Not the tms entire salary just the increase of 2 dollars to 15/hr
I was just trying to justify 2 ETLs gone would = the increase of 2 dollars for 44 tms.

 

[gsa4lyfe]

Average ETL salary is 70,000 times 2 ETLs = 140,000

So
140,000 divided by 52 weeks per year = 2,692 divided by (2 more dollars per hour to equal 15) = 1,346 divided by (30 hours per week for average TM) = 44 TM to get 15 per hour

Makes sense to get rid of 2 ETLs = 44 TMs at 30 hrs per week st 15 per hour.

Lol bye bye bye

I know this doesn’t really matter but with the amount of tenured ETLs/SDs that have quit and starting ETL salary is 55kish I would say that average is a little lower😂 too many damn new ETLs with no experience

 

[Antennae]

OP come back

 

[TargetSenpai]

Our store saw leadership cut recently and condensed and restructured. We still have team leads and we are in the process of hiring a FOS ETL (it's been a few months but I've been excited for this as I believe it will be a good thing). Demolishing TL's and ETL's entirely would be a grave mistake. Think of the team members in your area. There NEEDS to be leadership, structure, and guidance. For a SD, it would be really daunting for that one person or two to make sure everyone is up to speed on every single direction in every department- and that's not factoring in individual team members and their productivity that they have to oversee and any other challenge that arises. I can't speak for other stores, but our TL's and ETL's are always working their areas with their team and checking in on individuals. At night, our 5 day closing lead (formally the title 'LOD') is ALWAYS all over the place- pushing product in high-shopped areas, helping set up the morning backroom truck team for success, zoning seasonal, helping TM's stay on track, being called 50 million times by the front end and the rest of the sale's floor and helping them, etc etc etc. It's no different on the two days they are not there- those ETL's that close with us (and the SD) are doing the same thing plus all their title duties. Today my HR ETL helped shoot my pillow EXF's and grabbed them while I focused my reshop and ad take down- without me prompting that I needed the help. But these people have ALWAYS helped the store even before modernization. Their responsibilities have probably gotten more daunting and how they view team members has probably changed as the company has.
And let's not forget that only certain keyholders (previous senior team leads/LOD types) need to be on duty for store opening/closing duties- like perimeter checks. Target hopefully wouldn't be that silly to let someone like little ol' me handle duties that important and critical to the store without the actual training- nor any other team member. Inmates may run the asylum up front but without those bigger fish the team would be falling apart.

 

[Times Up]

There will never not be both ETLs and TLs in the store. How many is a separate question, but both levels are necessary for the sheer volume of TMs and sales.

Even in companies that keep under 20 TMs you still have department heads, because you need someone in charge of handling the stuff that only matters to that department.

Edit: i It is not JUST overseeing TMs. You're overseeing products, processes, sales, and customers. TMs are a tool in that group but by no means the only responsibility of leaders.

Instead of having 3-10 ETLs, what about 1-2 Assistant SDs and then some TLs? Maybe toss in a HR specialist instead of a (formerly SR) TL or ETL-HR.

Spot has alot of payroll tied up in it's in store management and there seems like there could be cuts there. Deploy some of that payroll to more people on the floor.

Until the economy starts it's next recession, there aren't too many people available at $13-$15/hr that are capable of doing it all and are willing to at that kind of pay. Maybe that's the Master Plan? Half-ass it now because people have money to spend and no matter what Spot does is not going to hurt sales. Once the economy cools off there will be qualifed people available and willing to be a DBO for $15 or a department manager for $18-$19/hr.

 

[Far from newbie]

Instead of having 3-10 ETLs, what about 1-2 Assistant SDs and then some TLs? Maybe toss in a HR specialist instead of a (formerly SR) TL or ETL-HR.

Spot has alot of payroll tied up in it's in store management and there seems like there could be cuts there. Deploy some of that payroll to more people on the floor.

Until the economy starts it's next recession, there aren't too many people available at $13-$15/hr that are capable of doing it all and are willing to at that kind of pay. Maybe that's the Master Plan? Half-ass it now because people have money to spend and no matter what Spot does is not going to hurt sales. Once the economy cools off there will be qualifed people available and willing to be a DBO for $15 or a department manager for $18-$19/hr.

I ALWAYS said we were management top heavy. There is too much work to have so MANY Leaders and too FEW Minions. One person should be able to manage much more than they currently do as long as there are enough minions to actually do the work.
The new hierarchy seems better - a bottom heavy pyramid
ONE SD
ONE HR
ONE ETL (To watch metrics, keep TL informed, put out fires, manage the TL’s NOT the tm or the depts.)
Multiple TL - over a few depts, (doing all the running of the depts & managing the tm’s, NOT tasking)
Mostly tm’s - for all the tasks

 

[Tessa120]

Right, but they won't move it to more TM hours. There doesn't seem to have been a reduction of ETLs/TLs even though there's been a dramatic reduction in TM hours. It's coming.

It'd have been pretty freaky if corporate started decimating management, TMs would have walked knowing they were next on the chopping block, and talented management would have wondered if they were next and left. Kinda makes sense to go bottom up when it comes to deep cuts. Everyone will think it a TM problem, maybe assumed the TMs with low hours did something to deserve it, and there'd be a lot more retention until corporate says otherwise.

 

[TheProfessor]

I am gobsmacked by the “HTH I got fired” naivety between this OP and the GSTL who recently posted about being fired. Granted, this isn’t on the same level of egregious as holding an item for oneself after making a clearance tag. This was one of extenuating circumstances and perhaps not handled that well.

I can only infer your boss, when they had the conversation with you leading to your term, wanted to hear about what caused you to be late. It sounds like justifying it was not the answer to their question. Yes, the day went smooth and you made a nice gesture for the team, but that wasn’t the point. A simple explanation about the circumstances preventing you from being on time would likely be more satisfactory.

That the day went smoothly wasn’t the point. And fetching the coffee and donuts seems like some misplaced priorities. If you were running late, getting there ASAP was the priority.

That all said, I don’t know the thought processes of your store director at that moment. That this was your final warning indicates there was a pattern of some kind, though.

In my previous life as a college instructor, I heard stories of extenuating circumstances all the time from students. The simpler, the better. I was often more suspicious when I heard stories or read emails with elaborate stories that seemed designed to convince me.

I’m sorry you got canned. However, I hope you find a better fit for a job and that you won’t make the same mistake there.

 

[Ashfromoldsite]

You must have noticed that ETL headcount is shrinking ?
Why did you make it so easy for them to make you the scapegoat to cut ?
I wouldn't be surprised if your peer was thinking "whew, better him than me" especially since she suggested that you make yourself even later by stopping for coffee on top of being behind already.
You have no recourse. You have NO ONE to blame but yourself on this one.

Final answer to your question : a resounding and unanimous "yes, it makes sense", perfect sense.

We gained an ETL w modernization

 

[Ashfromoldsite]

But since Target seems to believe that it's better for TMs to know and do all the processes, start to finish, how long are they going to keep ETLs with separate departments instead of making them E2E as well? Yeah, crazy expecting an ETL to manage everything from HR to logistics to food safety to budgeting, but that's not that much more crazy than one TM doing everything from unload to pricing to basket filling to customer relations to stocking.

They already are. Etls have to schedule and do their own interviews and hiring now.
I do feel that etl hr and/or hrtm will be eliminated.

 

[REDcardJJ]

they just added a bunch of Service and Engagement ETLs to stores

 

[gsa4lyfe]

I ALWAYS said we were management top heavy. There is too much work to have so MANY Leaders and too FEW Minions. One person should be able to manage much more than they currently do as long as there are enough minions to actually do the work.
The new hierarchy seems better - a bottom heavy pyramid
ONE SD
ONE HR
ONE ETL (To watch metrics, keep TL informed, put out fires, manage the TL’s NOT the tm or the depts.)
Multiple TL - over a few depts, (doing all the running of the depts & managing the tm’s, NOT tasking)
Mostly tm’s - for all the tasks

You guys are acting like this isn’t standard in retail? Every retailer I’ve worked for or have friends that work for or looked into their management structure is extremely similar. There is always:
1 store manager
2-5 assistant store managers
5-10 department managers

Major grocery chains (in my area) even have 4-6 salaried managers. Target is in the majority here not the minority.

 

[gsa4lyfe]

they just added a bunch of Service and Engagement ETLs to stores

Every store above 30M gained an ETL SE for modernization.... if they were going to cut I would have been now during their biggest organization restructure in 10+ years

 

[tellmeaboutatime]

I am trying to see why this doesn't make sense to you?
You had the responsibility to open the store on time
You failed
Your STL placed you on a final
You were late again even though you tried to place your responsibility on someone else
You were termed
You knew you were on a final. You continued to treat your job as an option. You are now free to find a job where attendance is optional.
Sorry sounds harsh, but unlike thousands of team members who have been termed in the last year, you had a warning and failed to step up.

 

[ThatAPguy]

My theory is OP is just too old for Target. Working there 8 years, 6 as an etl so you’re probably about 30-35 yo. College ended recently, and with all those newly minted etl recruits well they have to put them somewhere right? You got replaced by a new 22 yo brand new college graduate. You were too old and knowledgeable by now.

 

[gsa4lyfe]

I am trying to see why this doesn't make sense to you?
You had the responsibility to open the store on time
You failed
Your STL placed you on a final
You were late again even though you tried to place your responsibility on someone else
You were termed
You knew you were on a final. You continued to treat your job as an option. You are now free to find a job where attendance is optional.
Sorry sounds harsh, but unlike thousands of team members who have been termed in the last year, you had a warning and failed to step up.

To play devils advocate the second time they technically just switched shifts with the other etl the same way a Tm or TL would. I’ve switched with another key carrier plenty of times and as long as there’s someone to open the building it really shouldn’t matter. If OP was actually someone their SD wanted to keep, the second time wouldn’t have been an issue.

 

[TheProfessor]

I am trying to see why this doesn't make sense to you?
You had the responsibility to open the store on time
You failed
Your STL placed you on a final
You were late again even though you tried to place your responsibility on someone else
You were termed
You knew you were on a final. You continued to treat your job as an option. You are now free to find a job where attendance is optional.
Sorry sounds harsh, but unlike thousands of team members who have been termed in the last year, you had a warning and failed to step up.

Harsh? Maybe. But you were very concise. There’s no BSing here.

 

[TheProfessor]

I’m sure most of these replies weren’t what OP expected at all. Some clearly gave the feedback they sought, some went off the rails, but the replies says more about us than OP.

There’s some anger, especially when it comes to how team members fare in a similar situation. And the systemic inequality fuels that anger.

This is a situation that lends itself to schadenfreude (joy at someone’s suffering). Why? See above. Also, since many of us can think of a manager who is embodiment of the Peter Principle (promoted to the highest level of incompetence), there might be some projecting here.

There doesn’t seem to be much sympathy from TMs or TLs for OP, especially when it comes to professionalism. This is a situation where OP can’t catch a break.

The management theories - OMG to the point of LOL or even ROFLMAO! Especially that of downsizing TLs or getting rid of them for being too old, which doesn’t truly answer OP wanting some feedback. It also ignores whatever nuance there is in this situation the OP mentioned. I’m not in the know on this subject as I’m not in the power structure. However, this is where the discussion went off the rails for me. This could easily be its own thread where posters can pontificate away.

 

[happygoth]

To play devils advocate the second time they technically just switched shifts with the other etl the same way a Tm or TL would. I’ve switched with another key carrier plenty of times and as long as there’s someone to open the building it really shouldn’t matter. If OP was actually someone their SD wanted to keep, the second time wouldn’t have been an issue.

I see your point, but if they had discussed it the night before and agreed to switch times, I would say there should be no issue. But as the OP's post reads, they fully intended to be there to open but alerted the other ETL that morning that they were running late. This was a last minute thing.

 

[gsa4lyfe]

I see your point, but if they had discussed it the night before and agreed to switch times, I would say there should be no issue. But as the OP's post reads, they fully intended to be there to open but alerted the other ETL that morning that they were running late. This was a last minute thing.

Ahhhhh that makes sense. I read it as they switched but OP was still late for the time they switched too

 

[tellmeaboutatime]

To play devils advocate the second time they technically just switched shifts with the other etl the same way a Tm or TL would. I’ve switched with another key carrier plenty of times and as long as there’s someone to open the building it really shouldn’t matter. If OP was actually someone their SD wanted to keep, the second time wouldn’t have been an issue.

If you are on a final, you double and triple cover your behind.If they needed to switch, there should have been a conversation with the STL or at the very least an email from both the ETL who was going to take the shift and the one who initiated the shift. Again, when you are on a final you make sure all T's are crossed and all I's are dotted. This is not rocket science

 

[Black Sheep 214]

If you are in leadership, start looking for a new job as soon as you are put on CCA for anything other than compliance (ASANTS, but that one is pretty much automatic for everyone not on salary) because chances are good that you are being performanced out.

 

[bikebryan]

If you are in leadership, start looking for a new job as soon as you are put on CCA for anything other than compliance (ASANTS, but that one is pretty much automatic for everyone not on salary) because chances are good that you are being performanced out.

I 100% agree. I refused to drink the koolaid and continually butted head with my STL and Sr-Merch. I did everything they asked. A former ETL I had worked with contacted me during that time - he had the same experience but left before they could term him. So I left too.