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The real honest truth about hours

  • Thread starter Ludwig3
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Ludwig3

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I've often heard hours are based off the previous year's sales, etc. So here's where I start to wonder. Recently 2 good TM's were basically threaten by an ETL if they don't shape up he would cut hours and hire more people (great way to motivate TM's!). So Thursday the schedule came out and lo and behold, hour cuts for "certain" TM's, while others remained at 39+. I do believe the majority of our stores hours are from previous sales but you can't tell me some ETL's have no discretion. I've yet to understand how this is fair in the lease and down right threatening TM's without hearing the situation isn't how you should get results.
 
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Most of the time the TL writes the schedule, and the ETL approves/makes changes before the final posting. As much as they will deny it, over the years I've learned that when Target wants to get rid of you, they start cutting your hours to where you're literally working 4hrs/week.. Eventually you either quit, or just stop showing up. I've seen it done with TM's that have been with the company for awhile, and give the hours to the new TM's recently hired. Also if you are a TL they don't like (with guaranteed hrs), they will put you on performance watch, CCA, Corrective Action, ect. for any little thing they can get you for. It's the company's way of managing payroll.. if you suspect this coming soon, prepare yourself and have another job lined up so you can term target before target terms you lol
 

walruses

Former Softlines TL
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If that is happening that is a conversation the TM needs to have with ETL-HR/STL or the integrity hotline. You do not use the schedule to punish bottom performers.
 
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If that is happening that is a conversation the TM needs to have with ETL-HR/STL or the integrity hotline. You do not use the schedule to punish bottom performers.
Agreed, In my eyes thats a sign of weakness! your not dealing with the problem, just postponing it!
 

FrontEndKnowItAll

Former PFresh Assistant
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^ Exactly my thoughts... If I have one TM that is awesome at his job and one that just stands around why would I give each of them 20 if I could give the good one 30-35 and the not so good one 5-10. I don't see it as punishing the bottom performer I just look at it as maximizing performance.
 
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Ludwig3

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The situation at hand wasn't so much dealing with under performers but immaturely handling the situation. Basically ETL gets pissed, blames/threatens TM's, walks off. Their way or the highway mentality.
 
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^ Exactly my thoughts... If I have one TM that is awesome at his job and one that just stands around why would I give each of them 20 if I could give the good one 30-35 and the not so good one 5-10. I don't see it as punishing the bottom performer I just look at it as maximizing performance.
This. I use my hours to enhance productivity, not cater to the feelings of TMs who consistantly fail to deliver (although it's obviously not the case in OP's story.)
 
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If that is happening that is a conversation the TM needs to have with ETL-HR/STL or the integrity hotline. You do not use the schedule to punish bottom performers.
Perhaps not, but top performers will be (and IMO should be)scheduled more hours than one that does not perform as well. With only a certain number of hours available, the hours should be utilized to maximize sales. If those hours are given to top performers to meet this goal, there are fewer hours available for lesser performers. Maybe it is not a "punishment" as much as it is a reality check.
 
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Communication is important on this! All tm's need to know sales equals more hours for others & them. It's a big team effort!
 
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^ Exactly my thoughts... If I have one TM that is awesome at his job and one that just stands around why would I give each of them 20 if I could give the good one 30-35 and the not so good one 5-10. I don't see it as punishing the bottom performer I just look at it as maximizing performance.
Agree with you to a certain extent. If that one "poor performer" is given less hours are you managing their performance by giving them less hours? or are you just putting there poor performance on the back burner? If I encounter the poor performance of a team member, I coach their performance and I put it right in their "performance plan/actionable items" on the coaching that maybe less hours will benefit their performance. I am not going to give them less hours, when they were getting consistent hours just to maximize productivity. That makes me a bad leader..............
 

nib

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461
Most supervisors and managers are bad leaders...
Agree with you to a certain extent. If that one "poor performer" is given less hours are you managing their performance by giving them less hours? or are you just putting there poor performance on the back burner? If I encounter the poor performance of a team member, I coach their performance and I put it right in their "performance plan/actionable items" on the coaching that maybe less hours will benefit their performance. I am not going to give them less hours, when they were getting consistent hours just to maximize productivity. That makes me a bad leader..............
 

nib

Joined
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All Corporate America behaves this way, it's time we have BIG government start keeping a better on on BIG business, then fine and penalty the companies abusing their employees
Most of the time the TL writes the schedule, and the ETL approves/makes changes before the final posting. As much as they will deny it, over the years I've learned that when Target wants to get rid of you, they start cutting your hours to where you're literally working 4hrs/week.. Eventually you either quit, or just stop showing up. I've seen it done with TM's that have been with the company for awhile, and give the hours to the new TM's recently hired. Also if you are a TL they don't like (with guaranteed hrs), they will put you on performance watch, CCA, Corrective Action, ect. for any little thing they can get you for. It's the company's way of managing payroll.. if you suspect this coming soon, prepare yourself and have another job lined up so you can term target before target terms you lol
 

Leonhart621

Flow Driver
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Jun 26, 2011
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883
Well they cut my hours.

I get 40hrs per week. Now I only got 38 :-/

Off course those days are non truck days (BR), and they dont mind if I want to stay to help pfresh BS as long I dont get over 40
 
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Agree with you to a certain extent. If that one "poor performer" is given less hours are you managing their performance by giving them less hours? or are you just putting there poor performance on the back burner? If I encounter the poor performance of a team member, I coach their performance and I put it right in their "performance plan/actionable items" on the coaching that maybe less hours will benefit their performance. I am not going to give them less hours, when they were getting consistent hours just to maximize productivity. That makes me a bad leader..............
100% agree with you. and bp actually states under hrzone you do not cut a tm hours based on performance, it should be equal across the board. besides, schedule them more, get more chances to get rid of them.
 

commiecorvus

Former Signing Ninja
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100% agree with you. and bp actually states under hrzone you do not cut a tm hours based on performance, it should be equal across the board. besides, schedule them more, get more chances to get rid of them.
This
Not meaning to insult anyone here but just cutting back the hours of poor performers is just lazy administration.
It's like the principals who rather than do the work that is necessary to properly fire a bad teacher just transfer them to another school so the myth of tenure being a job for life developed.
By giving them the same hours, coaching them and doing the paper work necessary, you will either get the employee you need or the trail you have to have to can them.

(At least that is how you should do it if you are given the the hours to do the job properly.)
 
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walruses

Former Softlines TL
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I'm not saying that you should give a bottom performer 40 hours or even 30. But it shouldn't be a conscious effort to cut their hours in comparison to other tms. How can you performance manage them without giving them hours?
 

The Mule

Jack Of All Workcenters
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Jun 9, 2011
Messages
344
It's a 20% black, 20% white, whole lotta grey thing. You can say that you shouldn't cut hours all you want, but at the same time you also have to use the talent you have available too. Say you and 2 TMs have a project to do with 110 hours to do it in. Now take 40 hours out(say you're a TL for this part) and you have 70 hours left to divide between your TMs. TM A is a top performer and can get more done in the same time than most others. TM B can get the work done, but takes longer and requires a considerable amount of managing. Should you give each 35 hours, or should you give TM A 40 and TM B 30 in order to accomplish more work on the project? Not saying you shouldn't coach and develop the under performer, but at the end of the day you are going to be judged on WHAT you got done, not HOW you got it done. I would have to say you work with them, but until they reach a level where they deserve the hours that you continue to put your hours where they will be the most productive.
 

Athena

Makin' a bail
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Mar 9, 2012
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Our store will usually cut a TMs hours until they either leave or performance them out.

This can usually be avoided if you just do your job and have a good attitude. Seek out cross-training because the more global someone is, the more valuable they are on the schedule. Let's say you do a good job and consistently try to fill your hours by asking around. The next time there's a call out, you're the first person who comes to mind when they need to call someone in to replace them. Same idea when they're making the schedule, they will remember that you're up for anything. I am consistently maxed out on hours and work a different department everyday. Sure, I could choose to just be a hardlines TM and know I'd get atleast 20 hours. But after fighting for hours for so long, I am glad to see it's paying off and multiple TL's now fight over me.

To make it more relevant: I've had awful tardiness issues for 4 YEARS. It once got to the point where I was put on a final. For a day. I challenged my ETL on the issue because none of the TL's had been following up on me and he appealed it to HR the next day. Have I continued to be late? Definitely. However because I've gone to great lengths to position myself as valuable in that store, it is quickly overlooked.

In addition, if these TM's aren't making an effort to get off the naughty list then it just proves the ETL's point. Tell them to challenge up-ward and see what they get back.
 
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This
Not meaning to insult anyone here but just cutting back the hours of poor performers is just lazy administration.
It's like the principals who rather than do the work that is necessary to properly fire a bad teacher just transfer them to another school so the myth of tenure being a job for life developed.
By giving them the same hours, coaching them and doing the paper work necessary, you will either get the employee you need or the trail you have to have to can them.

(At least that is how you should do it if you are given the the hours to do the job properly.)
not to mention, the idea of maximizing performance in a retail setting like target is a misnomer. It is in fact more effective to give everyone 20 hours and have them spread across the schedule rather than a few with more hours.
 
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exact opposite here, they give the crappy people, who are obviously paid less more hours and the great workers get little to none. And they wonder why our BR scores have gone to ****
 
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By giving them the same hours, coaching them and doing the paper work necessary, you will either get the employee you need or the trail you have to have to can them.(At least that is how you should do it if you are given the the hours to do the job properly.)
This may be ideal, but it is not realistic given the way our stores are currently operating with regard to the number of hours available. Coaching....paper work..... Where's the part about training and/or retraining and follow up? Again, I say reality check. Who is taking the time to do this? Everyone at our store knows that having your hours cut is the first sign that your coaching was documented and you are on the way out - and they are hoping that you will quit before you realize that you can file for unemployment. Most do.
 
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When it comes down to it, you hurt the team overall by reducing the hours of the so called terrible employees. people get burned out.
 
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