Transgender and Bathrooms

[Life201]

I never said he doesn't have the right to his opinion, but people have the right to attack him for it if they don't agree. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom of consequences.

People don't have a right to attack someone because they disagree - they have the right to attack the person's argument but not the person.

 

[dannyy315]

People don't have a right to attack someone because they disagree - they have the right to attack the person's argument but not the person.

That's what I meant. I never go around verbally attacking people.

 

[imared]

The point is, I don't want a man, with a penis, using the same restroom as my little girl.

Can I ask you a question? Since you are, as you stated, a father to a little girl? When you are out alone with your daughter and she needs to go to the restroom, where does she go if there is no family restroom? If you take her into a communal restroom, then your argument holds no validity, since the men's restroom happens to be full of penises.

 

[imared]

Back when I was in high school, there was a family that lived in our neighborhood. Dad, Mom, 10 year old son. Dad gets arrested for approaching a young boy in the restroom and attempting to fondle him. What would have "protected" this little kid? He was using the "correct" restroom.

It can happen anywhere, anytime, to anyone. The whole transgendered issue doesn't create new dangers, it just reminds us that for 99.9999% of the population, it's normal business as usual in the bathroom (meaning that sexual predators existed before all of this.)

I mind my own business when I go into a public restroom. Everyone should as well.

 

[oath2order]

She's not looking in closed stalls, you do realize the majority of restrooms are outside the stall. Sinks, hand driers, etc...

Except she's not gonna see a penis in that part of the restroom. Your point is moot. Next.

 

[anathema]

The great thing is, even with pseudo-intellectual opinions like KimJungUn's, progress is being made. He can remove his kid from anything he chooses if he feels it'll do his child harm. He can do other stupid things like remove her from sex ed classes, not give her vaccines, stop her from holding a boy's hand, etc. If he needs to remove life experiences from his daughter so that he doesn't have to explain how real this world is and how quickly it's progressing because he doesn't have the balls to actually sit down and speak to his child, who are we to judge him?

Stopping progress for the sake of yet another boogeyman is boring. If you really don't like transgendered, gays, blacks, whatever, then just say that. We'll respect you (a little) more for it in the end.

 

[Kaitii]

Plot twist: His daughter comes out as transgender and he comes a prominent transgender rights activist

 

[Redzee]

I think what KimJung was trying to state was his discomfort with the idea of his daughter in a potentially vulnerable situation. As a Christian he has values he endorses and he has a right to. For the people who want change it appears your day is coming.

 

[anathema]

That's great that you can quote yourself, but it doesn't conflict with what I said. Not sure who else you're directing it to in that instance. There's 10 billion things per day that make you potentially vulnerable, most of us live in it to avoid becoming hermits, living in the woods and rounding out sharp table edges. A man dressed as a lady taking a piss in a stall is probably on the lower-end of 'potentially vulnerable situations'. There's always people trying to take advantage of any given situation, but the benefits vastly outweigh the risks.

No one is trying to take away his values, but if it conflicts with progress, don't be offended if people dismiss parts of it. Your daughter will grow in a vastly different world than most of us did.

 

[Retail Girl]

So now, people want people who look like men to use the women's restroom because they used to be women. So...that means a man could claim he used to be a woman and then go into the woman's restroom. How is this any "safer" for the kids?

 

[imared]

I just thought of something else.

Target (and other retailers) have unisex fitting rooms. People strip down in these, right next to people of the opposite sex, only separated by a thin sheet of MDF. Why no uproar about these? Heck, Old Navy has fitting rooms on the sales floor that are glorified shower stalls with shower curtains shielding them. WTH is it about pooping and peeing that freaks people out?

 

[melvin]

I just thought of something else.

Target (and other retailers) have unisex fitting rooms. People strip down in these, right next to people of the opposite sex, only separated by a thin sheet of MDF. Why no uproar about these? Heck, Old Navy has fitting rooms on the sales floor that are glorified shower stalls with shower curtains shielding them. WTH is it about pooping and peeing that freaks people out?

You can try to socially engineer and shame people however you wish, but most women will always be uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with males, particularly males they do not know. I suspect males will mostly be uncomfortable with gender neutral bathrooms because they will fear that the prospect of being accused of some sort of inappropriate behavior or harassment will jump exponentially. A couple common situations in men's rooms off the top of my head strike me as grounds for such accusations from overly sensitive, mentally imbalanced individuals. Why would either gender subject themselves to that if there is still an option for gender-segregated facilities? Plus, on top of everything else, why would I want to give up the luxury of having short lines at the restroom at the ball game for long lines if we begin having inter-sex restrooms as the rule, not the exception?

 

[sunshineyellow]

I don't see what the alternative is- check genitals before allowing entrance? Require everyone to submit to a DNA test before assigning them the correct bathroom? It's not like it's obvious who is transgender, so it's a moot point, really.

 

[redeye58]

I will agree, that if a state employee, working in a state that allows gay unions, had a problem, they should find other work.

Overlooked this earlier but I'm sure you're aware that the Supremes ruled that same-sex marriage is a nation-wide right & everyone remembers Kim Davis' refusal to carry out her duties because of her deeply-held beliefs.
These laws passed in NC, Mississippi, et al are just an end-run to justify a refusal to treat people equally under the guise of 'faith'.
And all the remarks about someone 'standing to pee' in a women's restroom stall, any transitioning folk I've spoken with have told me they can & do 'sit to pee'.

 

[Bosch]

I'll pray for you.

Why don't you volunteer at LGBT shelter, animal shelter, homeless shelter instead. Praying to a made up god doesn't do anything for anyone.

 

[melvin]

I don't see what the alternative is- check genitals before allowing entrance? Require everyone to submit to a DNA test before assigning them the correct bathroom? It's not like it's obvious who is transgender, so it's a moot point, really.

This is a quintessential example of something that sounds good to say, and everyone nods their heads in solemn agreement, but everyone knows isn't true. In fact, most of the time, you and I and everyone else recognizes right away when someone has taken, or attempted to take on, the identity of the opposite gender.

 

[redeye58]

http://jezebel.com/5840016/woman-sentenced-to-prison-for-beating-transgender-woman-in-mcdonalds

 

[callmetaylor]

Not to get off topic, but the best part of that Jezebel article was the fact that that woman had been arrested at the SAME McDonalds a year earlier. People are weird.

 

[melvin]

Why don't you volunteer at LGBT shelter, animal shelter, homeless shelter instead. Praying to a made up god doesn't do anything for anyone.

Maybe he or she already does? One could easily perform acts of mercy like the ones you mention and still have time to express disagreement with your point of view on this issue based upon his/her religious beliefs or even out of simple skepticism. I fall into the latter category, myself. Unfortunately, this issue has been politicized to such an extent that we will probably never know precisely what is happening in the brains of these folks.

 

[squirrely]

I personally don't see the big deal about this. I'm not sure if it was written policy, but I feel Target would allow for this prior to today. I cannot see them ever allowing team members to tell a transgender person to use the bathroom of the gender they were born with.

So yeah, this may be news to the rest of the world, but I doubt it is to anyone who works there.

 

[griezmanns]

I honestly can't understand why so many people get annoyed by stuff like this.

Public restrooms are still gonna be public restrooms. They're still gonna smell like a weird mix of pee, crap and Lysol, they're still going to have toilet paper on the floor instead of the toilet, the sinks aren't going to have enough water pressure and sometimes they're out of soap and/or paper towels. And unless you're having obnoxiously personal conversations with the person in the stall next to you about their assigned gender at birth while you're using the bathroom, your overall experience in a public restroom will not change.

I feel like too much of the general public is so concerned about the ~sanctity of the gender-segregated public restroom~.

Anyways, it's cool Target is doing this. If only it led to cleaner bathrooms and less complaints that the bathroom is dirty... One can dream.

 

[Signkitty]

That awkward moment when you realise people care more wbout regulating bathrooms then guns.

 

[tgtguy]

Everyone has the right to their own viewpoints. Personally, I just find it sad that in this day and age what people do in the bathroom is such a big deal. Could you imagine the world we would live in...If a fraction of all the energy and emotion being spent on bathrooms was channeled for something that was a "big deal". How many homeless people could have homes? How many hungry children could have food ? I assure you there are much bigger issues in the world than who is using what bathroom.

 

[redeye58]

Perhaps instead of worrying about what dress Bruce Jenner wore to a Hollywood event (or who uses which restroom), we should worry about real issues.

Terrorism
Economic stability
Illegal immigration

True threats to America.

FIFY

 

[Kartman]

you do realize the majority of restrooms are outside the stall. Sinks, hand driers, etc...

Why would anyone's genitalia be exposed at the sink? Hand dryer? Etc?

I'll pray for you.

And I'll be sure to write a letter to Santa Claus for you this December.