Archived Why do ETLs need to have a degree?

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Potential is meaningless if you don't apply it. AKA get a degree.

Some people are stupid. A degree shows TWO things:
1) You aren't stupid
2) You know how to apply yourself

This. (Thumbs up)

Putting yourself through four years of college and doing all the work, even though you probably don't even need it, shows commitment. it says "Hey, I committed to four years of higher education and crippling student loans for 4-5 years in the small hope that I'd land a high paying job." Would you rather hire somebody who has proven that they can commit to a 4 year plan/goal, or a retail "manager" who jumps from company to company every year or so? Do you want to be hiring for the same position over and over again, or do you want to hire a retainable employee who will stick out their two year rotation? They want permanent district-wide assets to the company, not somebody who moves up quickly and gets burnt out just as fast.
 
Some people are stupid. A degree shows TWO things:
1) You aren't stupid
Except that lots of people with degrees are stupid.
The number of TM's with degrees also shows in many cases they're not paying off.

Doing stupid things does not make you stupid, and whether you think they are doing something stupid is highly subjective from person to person.

Graduating college proves that in an intellectual capacity you are not stupid. Unless you cheated or did not earn your degree, but that is another can of worms.
 
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Doing stupid things does not make you stupid, and whether you think they are doing something stupid is highly subjective from person to person.

Graduating college proves that in an intellectual capacity you are not stupid. Unless you cheated or did not earn your degree, but that is another can of worms.


No, intelligence is natural. It is not taught or learned. Intelligence is your ability to learn. People with degrees are educated, they are not smarter or more intelligent.

Most degrees require effort, not intelligence.
 
Doing stupid things does not make you stupid, and whether you think they are doing something stupid is highly subjective from person to person.

Graduating college proves that in an intellectual capacity you are not stupid. Unless you cheated or did not earn your degree, but that is another can of worms.


No, intelligence is natural. It is not taught or learned. Intelligence is your ability to learn. People with degrees are educated, they are not smarter or more intelligent.

Most degrees require effort, not intelligence.

We're running in circles here. Point is that people with degrees have made a conscious effort to be smarter and dedicated by spending 4 years of their life attending higher education.

For any Manager position it is a no brainer that a hiring team is going to be much more impressed with someone with a degree over someone without a degree. It is always a safe bet that someone with a 4 year college degree is going to persevere over challenges, compared to some random dropout who might be smart but lacking in initiative.

Just by requiring the 4 year degree they are filtering out undesirable traits from candidates, and increasing the probability that the person they hire will be a good fit. Interviews can only go so far in learning about somebody.
 
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Used to be a degree showed commitment & discipline until upper education became so watered down because so many college freshmen came in ill-prepared.
There are college grads who were disciplined, studied hard, knew their subject matter inside out & it was reflected in their grades.
Then there are grads who were there more for the 'experience', parties, all-night cram sessions (which do little to retain what's taught) & racing to graduate while expecting to drop into a high-dollar profession. It was reflected in their grades, too.
 
Used to be a degree showed commitment & discipline until upper education became so watered down because so many college freshmen came in ill-prepared.
There are college grads who were disciplined, studied hard, knew their subject matter inside out & it was reflected in their grades.
Then there are grads who were there more for the 'experience', parties, all-night cram sessions (which do little to retain what's taught) & racing to graduate while expecting to drop into a high-dollar profession. It was reflected in their grades, too.
As with anything, you have top performers and bottom performers. As long as they meet the requirements, they get a degree though. So if someone is too busy having parties, they might not pass their classes (I've seen this happen to people). Having a degree still shows commitment and discipline compared to those who have not taken the initiative to get one.

Whether or not it used to be harder is a moot point, because the only thing that matters is relativity. No matter how hard or easy it is to get a degree, by having one you will always be showing more commitment and discipline compared to those who haven't attended college / dropped out.
 
Need to have that degree to have an excuse for why your hired into a position you don't know much about. Imagine if they hired from the inside and got some people with awesome work ethic and a good few years of experience already.
You can do this, if you have a degree. I saw a couple TL make the jump to ETL during my time at Target.

If you want to be an ETL bad enough, you should go get a degree. Those of us who've worked for our degrees shouldn't be punished by losing jobs to people who have no desire to go to college.
 
Those of us who've worked for our degrees shouldn't be punished by losing jobs to people who have no desire to go to college.

Nonsense.

People who have worked hard at a company for years have shown the company their dedication just as much as the person with the degree has, just not via the same route.

Your statement is no less absurd than: "Those of us who have worked for a company for years shouldn't be punished by losing jobs to people who have no desire to work their way up the ladder."

The goal should be to hire the person believed to be most capable, are you really trying to claim some random schmoe with a degree is automatically considered to be more competent by you than someone you have witnessed working their ass off for years and who knows every position in the store?

If so you're delusional. Especially because a large percentage of people that go to college get useless degrees that in no way directly benefit them in their chosen career.
 
I am sorry. I get very angry when I read that people think having a college degree is end all - and yes as a bit of background, I do have a degree. I ran large departments of major corporations and I have had my own business for over 30 years, not a fly by night one either. You might ask why I'm even at target..it's a long story and if you are really interested, pm me, though its not a very interesting story, sad, but not interesting.

Anyway, yes a college degree is great to have and i urge everyone to get as much education as they can possibly get, but down the road - you will see as you age - that a degree doesn't mean a damn thing and experience is what gets you through life.

College degree snobbery, is just that. If anything, target job offers should specify - a degree in this or a degree in that, not just say you need a degree.. That sounds stupid, and having a degree doesn't automatically make you smart...if they want someone qualified or someone who could potentially go on to bigger, better corporate positions and if they truly want qualified people, they need better presentation.
Maybe a required GPA of 3.6 in a field of business management or something like that.
BUT life experience without any degree would be just as good in those positions.. Just because they put the word executive in it, doesn't mean anything. All you are is an assistant manager of a big box. In some circles, the position would be laughed at.

If it were my company, I wouldn't want half the babies they pick ripe out of college running my operations or my staff. To inexperienced. I would take someone experienced who knows the nitty gritty over any new to the world kid.

Oh and would you hire Thomas Edison, Richard Branson, Henry Ford, Ray Kroc, Debbi Fields, Ingvar Kamprad, Bill Cosby, Madame C. J. Walker, Cornelius Vanderbilt, Milton Hershey, or Walt Disney? They are all high school drop outs. Very rich ones at that who started a d ran major corps..Or better yet, would they ever hire you? Not you, you, but you in general.

@Barcode - how are you being punished? If the person has better qualifications and doesn't have that framed piece of paper then what is the difference?
 
I guess some of us can just agree to disagree :) I think its normal for a lot of places to require a 2 or 4 year degree.
 
I see college snobbery at my store even though I have a silly college diploma/degree. I'm kinda embarrassed at my store. I'm one of the few team members that has a college degree.

If you had ever told me that I would be a college graduate and working a lowly sweat shop job at Target 10 to 15 years ago, I would have laughed in your face.

With that being said, I don't have a problem with people that actually enjoy working in retail. I have a lot of respect for people that somehow like it. I don't know how you do it but wow, you are definitely unique. For me, working in retail is just an embarrassment for me. I went to college to avoid retail. LOL.
Did I think I was going to be a millionaire if I went to college? No. Did I think I would have some money if I went to college? Yes.
In this life, money is everything. Money can fix anything.
To be honest, 50k would probably be my number. The number in which I would truly satisfied in life. Even 40k would do it. Hail, I'd be a little happy with 30k. Just want to be out of poverty.
 
@Jackswastedlife99 if you asked me a few years ago if I would be in retail at this stage of my life I would have laughed at you..which is why my my favorite quote these days is - never say never and never say forever...

Every day I'm at work lately puts me one step closer to want to walking out the door forever.. But, knowing that I can't, I make the best of a bad situation. I work constantly from the time I get there until the time I leave, why because that's what I am paid to do. I listen to employees complain, I listen to guests complain. I smile and walk away. There is nothing I can do about any of the complaints I hear.

I do wish there was something I could do with the baby etl I have who thinks running the front end means being stern and bringing moral down.
 
In terms of dedication, it's important to consider where that dedication lies. For instance, I'm currently in the process of earning a degree. My dedication is to myself and my education and the reason I'm going to college is so that I can eventually have a career I enjoy. For Target to hire me after I graduate because I show more "dedication" would be foolish of them because my dedication is not for Target. The individual who worked for the company 9 years and has learned every work center is far more dedicated TO TARGET than I will ever be. I actually have considered applying as an ETL if I'm unable to find other jobs so I can earn decent money and gain valuable work experience but the truth is, I would be far inferior to many of Target's current employees. It has nothing to do with fairness, only who would be the best person for the job It's a tactical error for Target to assume that I'll be a better ETL based on my degree. It's also foolish to believe in universals such as "those with a degree have a stronger work ethic than those who don't" indeed, it's true sometimes perhaps even most times but I always bring up the example of my brother who has promoted at Boeing faster than any employee in their history. He did so by simply outperforming his cohorts. He doesn't hold a degree because college isn't for him and it would have been a huge mistake for Boeing to restrict him for promotions for that reason.
 
I feel that a degree can help you get a better paying job and it's a nice achievement to have in life but all of this can be achieved without a degree too.

I feel that Target should lighten up on requiring a degree for ETL promotions with existing TMs. If a TM or TL has proven to be an effective leader, they should get the opportunity no matter what their education is.

Now for external hires, I would say they should be more strict on degree requirements, just because you don't know the person and it shows commitment like other have posted. But now if an applicant applies for an ETL position without a degree, I would still give them an opportunity to interview and if they blew me away, I would hire them. Of course it helps my decision if they had relevant work experience too.

To me work experience is more important than your degree because a lot of what you do in management is just not taught in school.

I don't get the whole hiring craze of hiring fresh out of college ETLs with little to no work experience. They usually crash and burn after 1-2 years. I know most of them are hired on the cheap but I think it would be more cost effective to promote or hire someone with 4-5 years of management experience rather than college experience. Yes you might have to pay them at least 60-70k to start but they will more likely run an effective process and will likely stay with the company longer.

I feel if Target took this approach they would see sales grow in every store. Look at the Costco model, it works. Now if they wanted to see their sales grow exponentially they would staff their stores better, but that's a whole other topic lol

What do you guys think??
 
I agree that requiring a degree is a good way to weed out external applicants, otherwise it would be almost impossible to go through all of the applications that Target would get. But I think that Target should make more of an effort to promote from within rather than hire from outside, and not have the degree requirement for people looking to move up within the company.

There is an ETL opening at my store, and the fact that a Senior Team Lead at my store with 35 years of retail experience won't even be considered for it just because she doesn't have a degree is ridiculous!
 
I feel that a degree can help you get a better paying job and it's a nice achievement to have in life but all of this can be achieved without a degree too.

I feel that Target should lighten up on requiring a degree for ETL promotions with existing TMs. If a TM or TL has proven to be an effective leader, they should get the opportunity no matter what their education is.

Now for external hires, I would say they should be more strict on degree requirements, just because you don't know the person and it shows commitment like other have posted. But now if an applicant applies for an ETL position without a degree, I would still give them an opportunity to interview and if they blew me away, I would hire them. Of course it helps my decision if they had relevant work experience too.

To me work experience is more important than your degree because a lot of what you do in management is just not taught in school.

I don't get the whole hiring craze of hiring fresh out of college ETLs with little to no work experience. They usually crash and burn after 1-2 years. I know most of them are hired on the cheap but I think it would be more cost effective to promote or hire someone with 4-5 years of management experience rather than college experience. Yes you might have to pay them at least 60-70k to start but they will more likely run an effective process and will likely stay with the company longer.

I feel if Target took this approach they would see sales grow in every store. Look at the Costco model, it works. Now if they wanted to see their sales grow exponentially they would staff their stores better, but that's a whole other topic lol

What do you guys think??
Costco has been written up in Forbes and other big magazines about being one of the best big box stores to work for. I wouldn't doubt if that is one of their reasons.
 
Getting in debt for a college education is the new norm. I got 40k in debt just to get a framed document that says I graduated from college and my life hasn't drastically improved. College is a scam. In America, most people make it big because they come from a rich family or have connections.

I wish I only spent 40k lol. Love my school, though. I'm only ever embarrassed about having s degree at work because I look young so everyone thinks I'm in college now and when I say I finished they're all "what are you doing here!?" I enjoyed my classes and I learned a bunch of super cool, irrelevant shit (a lot of focus on theory instead of on getting shit done), but I agree, college is a scam. My friends who got jobs out of h.s. are managers and what not with no debt, and I'm sitting here wondering "why didn't I think of that?"
 
Sher, I agree with you on the super cool, irrelevant shit. I learned a lot of that shit in college and it has yet to help me in life. The same could be for the majority of shite I learned in high school.

And I'm in the same boat. People from my high school are doing much better in life without college degrees. And here I was back in the late 1990s and early 2000s thinking that a college degree would vastly improve my life. Silly brainwashing fairy tale thinking. Then again, timing was not on my side at any point when I was in school whether it was elementary, middle school, high school, or college.

My parents held me back a year before I started Kindergarten so I was always the oldest person in my grade which was so cool and hip. I got shit for that all the time. So instead of graduating high school in 2001 in which I should have if my parents hadn't done that, I got to graduate in 2002. Terrible timing. The year after 9/11 and before the Iraq invasion and also during the last of the housing market bubble.
In 2005, I was forced to take a semester off in college due to the dumbass admissions losing my paper work.
In 2007, I was told in November that I wasn't going to be able to graduate from college and that I was sadly 3 credits short which is really sad because 1 class is usually 3 credits. So I was like okay, I will go another semester. I got told in December during the 2nd to last week of the semester that they had made a mistake and I could indeed graduate. So I was thrilled obviously because something that I had set out to do was finally over and I didn't want to waste any more time in college so I graduated. I graduated in December of 2007 completely unprepared and unorganized without a damn clue of how to deal with life after college. And that pretty much sums up my academics experience.
 
Really i believe you should take time off from school after high school and really search for what you wanna do first. I did that started college at 22 now im a year away from graduating and i feel like i knowthe career path i want to take.(hint: its not etl/stl lol)
 
Really i believe you should take time off from school after high school and really search for what you wanna do first. I did that started college at 22 now im a year away from graduating and i feel like i knowthe career path i want to take.(hint: its not etl/stl lol)
Eh, I disagree. I sort-of did the same, and wish that I had tried harder in High School, and went to a 4 year college right away after HS.
 
Really i believe you should take time off from school after high school and really search for what you wanna do first. I did that started college at 22 now im a year away from graduating and i feel like i knowthe career path i want to take.(hint: its not etl/stl lol)
Eh, I disagree. I sort-of did the same, and wish that I had tried harder in High School, and went to a 4 year college right away after HS.

Then there's the people who get their degree, get a job in their field and then realize they hate it. It's certainly not a bad idea t be sure you're interested in something before spending four years getting a degree in that field.
 
Really i believe you should take time off from school after high school and really search for what you wanna do first. I did that started college at 22 now im a year away from graduating and i feel like i knowthe career path i want to take.(hint: its not etl/stl lol)
Eh, I disagree. I sort-of did the same, and wish that I had tried harder in High School, and went to a 4 year college right away after HS.

Then there's the people who get their degree, get a job in their field and then realize they hate it. It's certainly not a bad idea t be sure you're interested in something before spending four years getting a degree in that field.

Honestly for most BA, BS degrees, you can use them pretty universally. If you get an English degree and want to go into IT later, you can just do specialized training/certifications, same with a lot of other fields.

Also you can just do generals the first 2 years of college anyways, and then decide what you want to specialize for in your 2nd half.
 
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