Archived Concealed Carry at Target

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OK, going to try to write this without giving away too much about my location and get to the point.

I have my Concealed Weapons Permit (CWP). My state issues them to people who pass both a written test and a shooting test after taking a class and reading a handbook.

My store is in a somewhat sketchy area. I decided to start carrying my pistol after the connecticut shootings for my personal safety and those around me.

Just today, there was a shooting within 2 miles of my store. This is a regular occurance. The area is pretty bad and there is a good bit of violence in the area. Some has actually occured on the Target property, dont want to give details about it though and give up my location.

I carry a loaded Ruger LCP pistol inside my waistband below the waistband level. The only thing that can be seen is the clip of the holster on the outside of my pants. depending on how I wear my belt, it will not be seen at all, even with my shirt fully up.

I of course have taken the proper precautions to ensure safety. As this pistol does NOT have a safety, I have a custom holster made for it that is vacuum formed to the gun to prevent anything fron getting near the trigger. Also, I do not keep one in the chamber. Meaning, before I could ever use it, I would need to remove it from the holster, and cock it, to get it ready to shoot. Normally I would carry one in the chamber but for safety of others I have chosen not to at work.

I am a salesfloor team member. Several of my acquantances at work know of my permit but none know I carry the weapon.

Now, I'm just curious as to everyones take on here. NOT TRYING TO START A 2ND AMENDMENT DEBATE. Dont want to be called a paranoid nut job. Because of things that have happened near my store, and even on the store property, I feel justified.

My question is; if you found out a fellow team member carried a loaded gun on them at work, what would you do/how would you feel? Would you report it immediately or talk to the TM about it? Would it matter if the TM has a permit for such weapon and has taken extensive instruction and precautions for everyones safety? Obviously I know if it were to be discovered at an ETL level i would at best case scenario go on final, probably fired on the spot. I do not plan on working for Target forever, and have other opportunities open to me if need be. My safety is more important to me than a 8.XX/hr job.

Just curious on everyone elses take on this issue. How would you feel, what would you do, etc, if you discovered a fellow TM and/or a fellow TM told you they were carrying a loaded gun

Attached are two files of the weapon and what is seen when I wear it. If I wear my belt the other way, the clip can be nearly completely covered up.

View attachment 2012-12-19 20.25.39.jpg

View attachment 2012-12-19 20.26.26.jpg
 
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Might I also add; my state (this may be giving away too much) has a "Guns At Work" law, which allows employees to keep a gun in their car NO MATTER WHAT their employers rules are, with few exceptions (schools and government agencies).

Also, in this state, even if a business has 50 signs saying NO GUNS, a CWP holder can legally bring their gun in and do NOT need to obey any signs or postings. Now, if the establishment discovers a gun and asks the person to leave, and the gun carrier doesnt, the establishment can have them trespassed for breaking their rules. But, by bringing the gun on premesis, NO LAWS are being broken, even if there are 100 signs saying NO GUNS and a sign every ten feet. So, if the police were to be called to Target due to my weapon, once the police saw my permit, they would say "Civil Matter" and leave, possibly reprimand the store for wasting their time, as no law was broken.
 

The Mule

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On a personal level I would have to know you fairly well to feel comfortable knowing you had a loaded weapon on you whether it was on the job or off. As far as what would happen if it was found out you had it by management you would likely be instantly termed for some type of "gross misconduct" of company policy.
 
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Thanks for the input. Luckily, that is the point of the CWP, it is concealed, so nobody should ever know you have a weapon, unless you want them to. Depending on the circumstances, if someone DOES see it while in public, I can be breaking the law and arrested/charged depending on the circumstances under which it is seen.
 

redeye58

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If it was the first thing I learned about you, it would most likely color my perception of you. If it were something I learned later after having gotten to know you as a person, it might not impact my opinion of you as much.
 
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I would welcome it. I'm not political at all, I don't own a gun, and I have never even fired a handgun before in my life but if I lived in an area you described, I would like to have one of my workmates that have an ability to protect innocent civilians in my store. And if a situation ever occurred that threatened the lives of said civilians, I'm sure all of them would wholeheartedly appreciate you if you were the reason their lives were saved. You also sound like a stable enough individual to have a concealed weapon.

However if one of those situations did arise, there is no question you would be termed, even if you were the "hero". I once knew of a regular TM that was fired because he straight up tackled a shoplifter, which is a big no-no. Now, obviously shoplifting and assault with a deadly weapon are 2 different circumstances, but I'm sure Target's policy is strict either way (unfortunately).
 
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^This.
If it was the first thing I learned about you, it would most likely color my perception of you. If it were something I learned later after having gotten to know you as a person, it might not impact my opinion of you as much.

I agree.

Honestly, I would be highly uncomfortable knowing you had it...even knowing it was unloaded (I'd always wonder if you were telling me the truth about that, if this were in person). I don't know if I would say something to a higher up until I was in that situation, but I probably would.

Leave it in your car, I wouldn't care one way or another. But in the store? I would not be comfortable at all.
 
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Look, here is the deal. The state law only says you can have it in your car. You bring up a point that the law allows patrons to an establishment to concealed carry even if the establishment has signs saying you can't. That's true.

Here is the part you are missing: You are not a patron, you are an employee. You are subject to the rules of your employer. No state has any law that requires employers to let employees concealed carry on the job against the employers wishes. In the car versus on your person are two totally different things. Target does not allow employees to concealed carry. Period. If they find out you are, you will be termed on the spot. There will be no discussion. It will be an instant term.

That is really all there is to this discussion. This isn't a "government versus the public" or "gun rights" issue despite the fact you are trying to frame it as such. This is an "employee versus employer" discussion. In this case, the employer holds all the cards.

Do whatever you want - but just be aware the moment an ETL finds out about it, it is an instant term and your career with Target ends that day.
 
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VibeNup, thanks for the input!

Dr Laytex, trying to keep this as un-politicized (word??) as possible

Retail Girl, Never said it was unloaded. No point carrying unloaded weapon. It is always loaded, just doesnt have one in the chamber, this is what I do to create a 'safety', as the gun has no traditional safety built in.

SoT- not trying to imply that Target cannot make a policy against me carrying. I am fully aware that it is against policy. I'm just trying to make the point that although it is against Target policy, it is in no way illegal. If Target called the police, the police would confirm that I am perfectly legal and not breaking any state laws, however am still subject to any rules of my employer. However, if my employer does not find out, I am not breaking any laws. If they do find out, chances are I broke a law by allowing my concealed weapin to be seen, which is against the law. If they never see it, no laws are broken, and there is no issue as I carry myself no differently whether or not I am carrying.

Lauramc- I disagree that is unsafe, in fact I believe that it does ADD an element of safety to the team, having gone through many hours of training. But that is not what I am trying to debate. Now here is another point-- if you were to report to LOD. I am a ULV store. I typically close, and only have one ETL/LOD during shifts. Can only one LOD/ETL search me, or does it take two to demand a search, as is the case with a drug/alcohol impaired team member?
 
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Ah...I don't know gun terminology...I thought not in the chamber meant unloaded. Sorry!

I'm ULV as well. I bet they could probably get another ETL/LOD back to the store if they needed to for something....knowing Target, there's probably a backup plan for the time there is only one LOD in the store in case of "emergency."
 
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Ah...I don't know gun terminology...I thought not in the chamber meant unloaded. Sorry!

Nope, I have a magazine with six bullets loaded. However, pulling the trigger does absolutely nothing. To 'activate' it, I need to cock the gun by pulling the slide, which takes a considerable amount of effort to do. Not something thtat can be done by accident. Since the gun does not have a safety switch built in, I leave the chamber empty to act as my 'safety'
 
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...if I knew that my coworker is carrying a concealed weapon, I would ask to move to some other department and stay away as far from that person as I can. I am not American, and your gun laws scares me. I have guy training, and have a licence to own a gun in my country (I never did), so I am not scared of guns, only people who use them.
 
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Honestly, I think in concealed carry states ap/tps should be allowed to carry if they choose. I wouldn't mess with them as is. However, in iffy states like NY where you can get permits but it isn't as openly accepted, I wouldn't carry at work. That being said, if the law allows you to keep it in your vehicle, keep it there. As an employee we are all aware of the multiple entry/exit points and should all hell break loose someone can make it to the parking lot quickly enough. Being on the salesfloor as an average TM if a guest ever took note and reported it to corporate it would look AWFUL for Target as a family-oriented company. It would be a complete PR nightmare which when it boils down, kills our paychecks.

I'd scour policy up and down, maybe talk to a few people in law/law enforcement about the laws and what can and can't be done in this scenario. That way, should you continue to choose to carry, you are prepared for any flac that reaches you.
 

ptl

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No reason to carry a gun at work. Simple as that. I don't have the time right now to pull up any of the relevant links, but they're easily found--ALL the statistics, no matter how you analyze them, have shown consistently and universally that a situation with an armed perpetrator and an unarmed victim/bystander/whatever is exponentially safer for everyone involved and everyone nearby than a situation where both sides are armed. It isn't even close--it isn't even questionable. Nobody who comes in to your store with a gun wants to use that gun. They want to wave it around, scare people, take the money, and get the hell out. Trying to stop them generally does not help, even if you are "trained," and almost always results in people getting hurt for no good reason--because, come on, it's just money and the store is insured. Now, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume that you personally would not try to use your gun to stop a robbery, but only to actually defend yourself or someone else from a threat of death or serious bodily injury--but does your training on how to use a gun safely include the training that, say, police officers go through, on how to determine accurately how serious a threat is? (If so, why aren't you a cop? ;)) The chances of someone coming into your store with the intention of hurting someone--especially in such a way that would justify response via handgun, and at a time and place where you happen to be in a position to make that response--is vanishingly small.
 
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I agree with ptl-the chances of needing it are very small. Leave it in your car and carry it when you are more legally protected to do so (not at work). I'd say if you are concerned about safety at work, talk to AP and express your concerns, and possibly gain more knowledge about the procedures in place to protect team members.
 
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I agree with ptl-the chances of needing it are very small. Leave it in your car and carry it when you are more legally protected to do so (not at work). I'd say if you are concerned about safety at work, talk to AP and express your concerns, and possibly gain more knowledge about the procedures in place to protect team members.

The sad truth is Target doesn't really do much to protect TMs. First of all, the job isn't inherently dangerous to begin with. Furthermore, most of the 'safety' rules are common sense that any idiot would get. I remember when the company made a big deal about "cutting AWAY" from yourself when using a box cutter. The hell you say?

I have seen plenty of "real" safety rules get ditched when they make life even slightly difficult for ETLs. For example, going to/from your car after/before store hours. I have seen ETLs flat out completely forget about that when it was inconvenient.

And don't expect AP to protect you either. We once had a guy come in the front doors one day and started screaming "WHO KILLED MY FAMILY? I'M GOING TO SHOOT YOU ALL!". Our Sr. TPS (who was within 5 feet of him and could have easily grabbed him) at the front door literally ran out the door, into his car in the parking lot, drove away and called 911. Fortunately, the guy was just a nut and wasn't actually armed.

Just remember this - and this goes not only for Target, but every corporation in america. When it comes between your safety and making a single dollar, the company will choose the dollar every time.... no matter how much they talk about safety. The only reason they have any safety rules and pretend they care at all are because they are legally required to.
 

StaticSun

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Leave it in the car, IMO.

If you show it while in the store, let alone end up using it, you'd be fired for gross misconduct.
 

xxTheDudexx

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You're a sales floor team member. Why would someone come at you with a gun? Even so, you are supposed to walk out in groups to your cars at the end of the day for safety. If you were a cashier or at a register containing money I might see more reason to carry one, but even still I'd report you anyway. I wouldn't want somebody with a loaded gun working with me. I don't care how safe you are, that's what the police are for and I wouldn't want anybody working remotely close to me with a loaded firearm. Period.
 

commiecorvus

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I'm a big supporter of concealed carry.
My daughter carries and I taught both my kids to shot at a young age.
I don't carry because I live in a state that freaks out at the idea of anyone even looking at a gun but I have no problem with intelligent, sober folks carrying.
That said, I'm pretty sure that you would be fired if they found out.
Maybe not for the gun but they would figure out something.
 

buliSBI

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If you are a TM and you concealed carried onto Target property (instore/parking lot), and management found out, the TM would be terminated.

I have been at stores where a couple TMs stowed their personal firearm in their car. And somehow they let it slip or someone saw the firearm, and they were immediately terminated. I have seen TMs being written up for bringing a taser/stungun into the store.
 

commiecorvus

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If you are a TM and you concealed carried onto Target property (instore/parking lot), and management found out, the TM would be terminated.

I have been at stores where a couple TMs stowed their personal firearm in their car. And somehow they let it slip or someone saw the firearm, and they were immediately terminated. I have seen TMs being written up for bringing a taser/stungun into the store.

Why would they get terminated if they were leaving the weapon in the car?
Or was the parking lot Target property so they could use that against them?
Because if it was part of a mall than it would be the landlords policy and Spot would have no say.
 
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