Archived Get ready

[mrknownothing]

That may be true, but there are aspects of the position that I had no idea even existed until I took this job, and the people that have worked here for 20+ years have acquired that knowledge and helped me learn more about it. Being opened minded and not too confrontational when your teaching your leaders goes a long way.

There's no guidebook to becoming a successful leader, because frankly... everybody and every situation is different.

Good point, zeek. The training can only cover so much. You pick up the little things as you go along. What I was saying was that a leader should have, at the very least, learning plan-level knowledge of the workcenter. Yeah, they'll still have a lot more to learn, but they need to have a basic understanding of what their team members are doing.

 

[commiecorvus]

Your post contradicts itself. You imply, well no, you outright state that zeeks point is valid, then spend the rest of your post complaining (which is what his post was mostly against).

Also, I don't know what your store is like, nor do I know what any of the other posters on this site's stores are like. That being said, the general negativity and "whininess" of this site is bizarre to me. I haven't worked for Target for very long, as many of the folks on here know, but I've been around long enough to get a sense of my store, and to visit/train/assist in stores around my district... it doesn't fit the image portrayed on here. Maybe my district is just the bomb-diggity, maybe my execs, STLs, etc. are simply the extremely positive exception to the norm, but I doubt it. I think there's just an infestation of butt-hurt on here.

I like my TLs, I like my Execs, I like my STLs, I like my business partners, and I like my DTL. None of them are perfect, some of them suck, but by-in-large, they work hard, they care, they try, and most deserve the positions they are in. I'd like to believe I've just got the best peers and bosses on the planet, but odds suggest I don't. So where's the disconnect between my reality and the things many on here portray? I see a lot of sour grapes, a lot of angst, and a lot of whining, but I don't see many realistic solutions being offered.

You're right I wasn't implying anything.
Zeek's point is totally valid.
Target does need to compete and stay successful.
The point of my post was that it was going about it the wrong way.

And while there are certainly some whiners here, I tend to think of most of the people here as ranters.
The difference between ranters and whiners is that ranters don't expect anyone to fix things for them.

Can it get a bit wearing to listen to? Sure.
But you know when I go out after work and have a few beers with my friends and we talk about work, I often listen to them vent about their jobs.
That's what friends do.
All of the people here (the regulars at least) have a certain style and voice.
If all you're looking for is negativity than that is what you're going to find.
I read every thread and that isn't what I see.
I see people helping each other, making jokes, talking about their lives, making plans, and just doing their best to get by.

I like my TL, ETL's etc. etc. as people.
I'm lucky, this hasn't always been the case.
They are decent and caring, trying very hard to do often thankless jobs.
The problem is that all too often they are passing down crap that isn't their idea and doing their best to make it as painless to the rest of us at their own expense.
Those are the good bosses.


I would be happy to make a very long list of all the ways that Spot could make money without treating its employees like cattle but I have to go to work now.

 

[invictustaylor]

Nifty that you don't care how many hours that you work, not relevant, but nifty. I'd rather have a 20 hour job that pays 20k, than a 80 hour job that pays 40k, but I value my time away from work, maybe you don't. 45k is not a lot of money, it's just silly to say otherwise. It's hardly poor, but it's middle class, at the very best and lower-middle class would hardly be a stretch after taxes and school loans.

All i'm saying is that the etls at my store might be at the store 60 hours a week, but they very well may only put in 30 to 32 hours of actual work in. They've brought that point up in discussions at chat sessions, "well when I figured it out I was actually make LESS than team members an hour..."

But yeah I agree with the rest of your post i'd rather have that 20 hour a week job too!

 

[invictustaylor]

Your level of cocky/delusion is difficult to comprehend, I'm not quite sure how anyone fits in a room with you and your ego.

lol because it takes so long to learn how to be decent at flow team. Maybe I had a leg up on the competition since I've been working fulltime since I was 16 and have been around logistics operations my whole life. Lol I see what you're saying, any ordinary person would have been gloating, but I was merely being modest

 

[zeek]

If all you're looking for is negativity than that is what you're going to find.

This is 100% the point I'm trying to make when dealing with any leader in the store in my posts. Glad to see we are on the same page with something!

 

[lololo]

Sooooo sad. Your ETL and TL are supposed to manage their departments and teams. Sure, they can get in there and help out, but that's your job and what you were hired to do and what you get paid for. It is not their job. Maybe you could try to be an example to your fellow tm's by actually doing your job instead of waiting for someone else to set an example for you.

I'm pretty sure the core roles of a TL are the same as the TMs they're over (plus a few extra for leadership purposes). And let's be real, there's no way one person can spend 7 hours managing the whole time.

I'm a Flow TM and I will say we do have some lazy people. However, if I'm scheduled till 11am, and our RWT is estimated at 9am to finish the truck; you best believe I am taking my time to get my adequate hours. If I'm scheduled to said time, I'm staying till that said time. But there are days where Pfresh don't need help, don't need any extra cashiers, and hardly any challenge. So to sum it all I will slow my pace so I'd be one of the 5-6 people asked to stay to take lunches

If you're scheduled until 11 then you are scheduled until 11 no matter what. I mean, you can finish your truck at 9 (on time), and even though they tell you there isn't anything to do, come on. There is always something to do.

Target is simply raising the bar. They have competitors, and they need to continue to run a successful business. Sure, payroll cuts blow, but from a business standpoint, they need to continue to be profitable year in and year out. I don't get the whole "us vs corporate" mantra that this site has developed. Flow team simply needs to pick up the pace. I worked flow for several years, and the team we had when I started could walk circles around the team that's in our store right now.

This is hilarious. The ONLY thing Target has going for it is "guest experience". This is why people come into the store. For some reason these soccer moms with an unworthy sense of self importance think they deserve a better shopping experience than what Walmart gives, and these fools are willing to pay the extra few dollars for it. However, with corporate constantly cutting back hours to save some money, the "guest experience" is taking a hit. If corporate keeps up at this pace, eventually there's going to be a point where our guests realize that shiny floors with no check lanes opened isn't worth the money. They are playing with fire, them big boys up in Minnesota.

And as far as flow team slacking off: Get rid of the people that do it and allow it. If there's a TM that's garbage, get rid of them. Pay the position more (God forbid, right?) so it will attract more quality team members. If a LOG TL wants to walk around and talk while their scores are yellow, get rid of them. I mean do SOMETHING. Just don't take their hours away. It has the potential to become a domino effect that could destroy a store.

 

[ISIS639]

No, I have issues because Target, our employer, does not care about our safety or our ability to make sales. Specifically their idiotic thinking that killing all hours on the sales floor is good for the company. It does nothing but lower sales because people cannot get what they want. Defending this abhorrent practice is kind of immoral.

For sake of arguement, I'm just going to pretend you were happy with this company at one point. Let's say 3 years ago. When there were hours on the sales floor and whatnot. Has your store's sales decreased since your "happy" time at target? I highly doubt that they have. So while I don't have to like it, corporate hasn't completely messed up on that front.

 

[ISIS639]

I agree that it does take time for one to become proficient in a new job. But wouldn't it make more sense for someone to learn the workcenter before they are put in charge of it? For example, a new GSTL should be familiar with everything guest service related before they try to lead the front end. Likewise, an Instocks TL should have an understanding of Instocks before they are put in charge of the Instocks team, and the same with every other workcenter. And the ETLs should understand team leadership before they are put in charge of their underling TLs.

In Target's mind, they don't hire GSTLs or SFTLs. They hire TLs. People who they feel are capable of leading a team and learning all of its processes quickly. There is no need to have a full understanding of a position upon entry. A good leader can lead even in absence of a complete understanding of their department. That being said, not all leaders are good leaders.

 

[redeye58]

You're delusional if you think that is whining, in fact, it brings in to question your comprehension of the English language.

Your level of cocky/delusion is difficult to comprehend, I'm not quite sure how anyone fits in a room with you and your ego.

It's the only thing I get... "you don't know what you're talking about", "you know nothing", "blah, blah, blah".

 

[melvin]

One fundamental issue I have with Target (and really corporations in general) is the idea that you can "learn" how to be a leader; it's complete BS. You either can lead, or you can't, it's not math, it's an innate ability. Anybody can be a cheerleader, but cheerleaders aren't leaders, their just peppy. It's garbage, it always will be IMO.

For someone coming on so strong with his posts, this an awfully, awfully dumb pronouncement. Leadership is strictly an innate quality? Nevermind that you have no data whatsoever to back this up, you also apparently have very limited experience in the fields of business, education or sports.

 

[ISIS639]

For someone coming on so strong with his posts, this an awfully, awfully dumb pronouncement. Leadership is strictly an innate quality? Nevermind that you have no data whatsoever to back this up, you also apparently have very limited experience in the fields of business, education or sports.

I don't think the issue is so much that nobody can learn to be a leader. The issue is that there most certainly are people out there that cannot lead. The problem Target has is that their interview process doesn't separate the people that can learn to lead from the people who can't. Its one reason so many people on here feel that internal hiring is such a great thing. It's no secret Target has a high ETL turnover rate and I really do feel this is one of the reasons.

 

[melvin]

I don't think the issue is so much that nobody can learn to be a leader. The issue is that there most certainly are people out there that cannot lead. The problem Target has is that their interview process doesn't separate the people that can learn to lead from the people who can't. Its one reason so many people on here feel that internal hiring is such a great thing. It's no secret Target has a high ETL turnover rate and I really do feel this is one of the reasons.

Yes, this an intelligent response.

 

[commiecorvus]

This is 100% the point I'm trying to make when dealing with any leader in the store in my posts. Glad to see we are on the same page with something!

When it comes to the leaders in the stores I don't (in general) believe that negativity serves in purpose.
Most of the time you can train your bosses if you're willing to put in the time and effort.
Sure there are those who aren't willing to learn (Or just don't have the common sense g-d gave a goose) but they can be dealt with as well.
There is a reason the turn over rate is so high among new ETL's and it isn't really the "difficulty" of the job.
When they alienate their entire support staff the job goes from difficult to impossible.

No, my negativity is aimed pretty much directly at Spot.
From cutting hours so they can have the money to pump into their Canada operation, to sponsoring race cars rather than giving decent health insurance, the list of bad decisions just boggles my mind.
Why are they building a corporate headquarters with a "fenced-in courtyard planned on the 10th Street side of the site. The area will have barbecue grill, basketball court, bocce court and lounging space" and playing games with peoples schedules?
Or donating money to conservative groups that have very different social views then Spot supposedly does?
Or how about their fighting unionization with every dirty trick in the book rather than giving people good reasons (a living wage, good insurance, representation on the board) not to organize.

Every stupid decision that the ETL's and TL's have to deal come from Spot.
We have every reason to be negative.

 

[nib]

extremely well said, right on the mark!

When it comes to the leaders in the stores I don't (in general) believe that negativity serves in purpose.
Most of the time you can train your bosses if you're willing to put in the time and effort.
Sure there are those who aren't willing to learn (Or just don't have the common sense g-d gave a goose) but they can be dealt with as well.
There is a reason the turn over rate is so high among new ETL's and it isn't really the "difficulty" of the job.
When they alienate their entire support staff the job goes from difficult to impossible.

No, my negativity is aimed pretty much directly at Spot.
From cutting hours so they can have the money to pump into their Canada operation, to sponsoring race cars rather than giving decent health insurance, the list of bad decisions just boggles my mind.
Why are they building a corporate headquarters with a "fenced-in courtyard planned on the 10th Street side of the site. The area will have barbecue grill, basketball court, bocce court and lounging space" and playing games with peoples schedules?
Or donating money to conservative groups that have very different social views then Spot supposedly does?
Or how about their fighting unionization with every dirty trick in the book rather than giving people good reasons (a living wage, good insurance, representation on the board) not to organize.

Every stupid decision that the ETL's and TL's have to deal come from Spot.
We have every reason to be negative.

 

[commiecorvus]

So perfect.
Thanks all over again Mr. KN.

 

[melvin]

I'm still looking for an example of corporate leadership "taking ownership" of a poor decision that hurt team members. "Taking ownership," I'm told, is an essential part of working for Target.

 

[cihyfthedoor]

I'm still looking for an example of corporate leadership "taking ownership" of a poor decision that hurt team members. "Taking ownership," I'm told, is an essential part of working for Target.

Nagunnahappen. At well run companies (from a perspective a lot lower than that of the rich old white guys in the boardroom), you'll see leadership own up pretty quick to mistakes like that. But at most companies, i.e. this one, you have to give it a bare minimum of 2 or 3 years. Even then, the best you're going to get is "In the next couple of weeks we are going to be implementing some changes to our current [whatever] process. After looking over the data, we found that the previous way this process was carried out wasn't quite what it should be. It was actually quite a bit less than efficient or fair. We aren't sure how it ended up this way or how it slipped through the cracks without any feedback from anyone, but the new way should be much better."

And that's best case scenario. The typical response after those 2 or 3 years will be "We're improving the process. These are the changes from the current method."

Taking ownership of poor decisions, and doing it quickly after it becomes clear, is probably some kind of sign of weakness in the big-money world. Or some other bull****. They probably don't see it in terms of "we made a stupid decision, we're sorry, here's what we're going to do to fix it," but rather in terms of "S***, if we own up, shares will drop 3 cents! That means the indoor pool on the fourth floor of my spring-retreat mountain chateau won't be able to have diamond studded solid platinum tiles totally covering the bottom! I'll only able to have that for the tiles going around the top edge! !!! We need to bury this! Call the senator's office; we need to borrow his speech writer to write something up to distract everyone and put a rainbows and lollipops spin on it! I NEED my 20th bling bling pool!"


Sorry, I tend to get into an apathetic mood when thinking of the corporate world and end up having runaway-fun with these things.

 

[redeye58]

Wonder if they're gonna have a bling pool at the corp spot they're building with the fenced in barbie & bocce grounds....

 

[iluvtarget]

amen. fire all logistics etls. it is a redundant position. the flow tl and br tl take care of everything. actually,all you need is an STL and TLs. ETLs are roadblocks.

 

[redeye58]

amen. fire all logistics etls. it is a redundant position. the flow tl and br tl take care of everything. actually,all you need is an STL and TLs. ETLs are roadblocks.

Yeh, but some of those TLs would have to be key-carriers & be able to open/close the store.

 

[invictustaylor]

then so be it. Let the firing begin!

 

[dek067]

new org chart (post-exec firings) anyone?

 

[Going with the Flow]

Yeh, but some of those TLs would have to be key-carriers & be able to open/close the store.

Our Flow TL already does that.

 

[Backtohardlines]

Likewise, if someone were proficient in their area & applied for a TL position, leadership hires someone from outside. Their rationale is that they won't have to replace someone who's been promoted, only the position that's being filled. With that move, they are telling the TM passed over that they aren't good enough for TL but good enough to train their new TL. This TL will also be unfamiliar with company culture & will be dealing with simmering resentment from the TM who is training them. It also removes any incentive for the TM to continue performing at a high level because they won't be rewarded for their efforts except for pittance raises. The age of being rewarded for hard work seems to be applied sporatically at best.

This is sooooo true! I have already trained 2 of my team leads. This time I applied for the position. I don't know that I'll get it for this very reason. so frustrating

 

[talan123]

What really pisses me off the most is these new batch of leaders at my store. I am constantly having to either teach them how to do their jobs, doing their jobs, or forcing the other team members to do their jobs. One of them recently asked me how to print up substitution signs, out batches, and even the idiotic "How do I make a sign?".

We have a senior team lead who has trouble going from 7 to 8 while counting. Yes, you read that right, apparently the ability to get from 7 to 8 is no longer a requirement when they are looking for leadership. It took them three tries to get it done when counting team members. It was deadly quiet because we couldn't believe that this was happening.

But my favorite thing about this new batch of leadership has to be the disconnect from reality because they spend so little time on the floor. They told us we have to ask everybody if we can help them find something and then we have to call it over the walkie. Yeah, the problem with that is that there are only two members on the salesfloor and everybody else pretends to not have a walkie. So the electronics team member usually ends up doing all of hardlines while the fitting room operator does all of softlines. Now they are upset with us because our electronics score is in the red. Which of course leads them to berating us for doing what they told us to do. Whenever somebody calls out for help in electronics, it takes three calls to get a response on anything.