Archived Insubordination

Status
Not open for further replies.
Coqui

Coqui

Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
1,927
I tried searching the thread for this but I couldn't find it. How would you guys handle an insubordinate employee? I had to coach a TM for not following directions as to when to take her break. I had it scheduled and let them know that I needed them to take their second break when the other person came back from lunch. I was about to head out for lunch so I planned it that way to have four people in my work center at all times. When I clocked out for lunch, this TM went on break anyway. What is the best practice for this? Thanks in advance.
 
The tm knowingly defied direction. That's insubordination.

Does the tm require any accommodations around rest breaks?

Was the tm working longer than 2 or 2.5 hours without a break at the time?

If not, then it would be a written CCA for insubordination.
 
No, they all had their breaks scheduled. I coordinated it in a way that allowed for coverage to not suffer. The TM knowingly defied and went right after I left for lunch thinking I wouldn't see her.
 
Oh c'mon, give her a break, no pun intended.

Sorry, your plan was broken, but instead of thinking how to penalize, why not ask her what's going on. Might be that she's really tired, or some emergency call she had to made, or hungry, thirsty - then explain why it is important not to do it again.

People might be going through something bad, and a bit of patience is needed to deal with people.
 
Penrose said:
Oh c'mon, give her a break, no pun intended.

Sorry, your plan was broken, but instead of thinking how to penalize, why not ask her what's going on. Might be that she's really tired, or some emergency call she had to made, or hungry, thirsty - then explain why it is important not to do it again.

People might be going through something bad, and a bit of patience is needed to deal with people.
Click to expand...
I appreciate that feedback but you have no idea what I've been dealing with with this TM. You would be shocked lol
It has nothing to do with being tired. This TM has numerous performance issues. Can't really get into detail but it's something I've been working with for a while.
 
Well, I understand.

Whatever she's going through, I can only hope that she overcomes it, and become a better employee next time.

People go through certain phase, certain attitude sometimes because of their situations.

It is unfortunate to people who have to deal with it - but that's life.
 
Penrose said:
Well, I understand.

Whatever she's going through, I can only hope that she overcomes it, and become a better employee next time.

People go through certain phase, certain attitude sometimes because of their situations.

It is unfortunate to people who have to deal with it - but that's life.
Click to expand...
If this was a one time occurrence, I would have just spoken to them, but when they have numerous performance issues as well as conduct and you work out plans to help them improve and they don't follow through and it continues to negatively impact the team, action needs to be taken. That's why I posted this thread. I'm not that harsh or unreasonable but there comes a time that my patience and understanding gets exhausted. I can't be the only one trying to help someone improve, it ultimately comes from them to be willing to put in the effort.
 
I know what you mean. I'm sorry, I don't mean to imply anything about you.

I say best of luck on her future endeavors... hope she changes into a better employee and a better person.

That's all.
 
ASANTS, but insubordination at my store is extremely serious. It depends on the degree, but something like that would usually earn the TM a final, especially if you've coached them previously on it. I think it has to do with our STL being ex-Military, so he thinks of insubordination as a huge insult and won't tolerate it, which trickled down to the ETL's and TL's.
 
I'm not a person that gets offended over that but if you're purposely defying what needs to be done, then I'll get bothered and find out what's going on. I don't mind being challenged, but have a legit reason.
 
Paperwork and process.
Write everything down, keep it factual and dispassionate. Take each appropriate step in the process, making it clear to this person that they are walking off the edge of a cliff.
This is a write up for not following instructions.
Don't take it personally but do make sure that you handle it appropriately.
The next time it happens, and it sounds like there will be a next time, nail them to the wall.
 
Seek to Understand conversation and then head from there. Never accuse out right. Always best to assume best case scenario but don't put it in their head. Don't put words in their mouth. Open ended, non-biased questions. "Were you aware what time you were supposed to take your break? What time did you take your break? Why did you take your break at such time?" Explain consequences of said actions. Multiple team members going to break at same time, limited salesfloor coverages, nobody available for guest first etc.

Only mention previous infractions if it is related to current infraction. Otherwise it looks like you're "out to get them". If they have a problem sticking to a break schedule, mention previous times they didn't stick to a break schedule. But keep the coaching conversation ONLY about sticking to a break schedule. If they have issues following direction, only talk about following direction.

The only time I ever bring up other conversations that are barely related is if I have a CCA written and approved so they don't feel surprised. But if you're slamming them with all these coachings and issues and then don't follow up with a CCA, it removes the impact of that coaching....so that when I coach them again, it's less effective since they know nothing will come from it


Stay consistent, keep to the facts, and be clear cut. That's all you can really do.
 
If this is a part of a pattern of non-compliant behavior & they've already been documented for something similar, it could be added to the stack under conduct.
Sounds like they're branching out to see how many ways to push the envelope by defying your instructions.
Time to push back.
 
If you spoke with the TM, and you scheduled her break at an appropriate time (2-2.5 hours after the end of her lunch or first rest break), and she didn't mention anything after that, then I would just write her up for insubordination.

If you were clear in your instruction (did you speak directly to her?) then I see no reason not to follow through.
 
Not insubordination. In order to be insubordination, you MUST tell the TM "if you don't do X you WI
LL be placed on a cca".

This would be a counseling for failure to follow directions. You gave direction and they knowingly went against that.

Good luck!
 
I know im late haha... But for future reference insubordination can lead to automattic termination! If a tm is not following instruction thats defined in their core roles.. Call the LOD over and let them know.. The LOD must ask them atleast twice if they still refused its a suspension.. Then the etl-hr will term them following their return. According the best practice on WB!
 
Had a few instances of this. Like I gave a TM direction and they looked me full in the face and said "No". Was told by HR that even though best practice is immidiate signed corrective action or possible termination depending on the circumstance for insubordination, if your store doesn't have precedent and team member understanding of such, you have to follow the coach coach coach coach model like every other issue and build up to CCA.
Its extremely tricky to even coach somebody on insubordination because you might be seen as being on a power trip.
Good luck.
 
My Sr.ETL told me to never let a TM tell me no if I give direction. I've never been one to throw status so I wouldn't even know how I would be like "Don't tell me no." Lol
 
Last edited:
When I had a SFTM say that they weren't gonna come up for a back up when they were right next to the registers and we had a humongous backup I almost flipped my shit. I'd never went to the LOD before for anything but I felt like she'd pretty much spit in my face and said fuck you.....if GSAs could coach smh.
 
Last edited:
cobycord said:
When I had a SFTM say that they weren't gonna come up for a back up when they were right next to the registers and we had a humongous backup I almost flipped my shit. I'd never went to the LOD before for anything but I felt like she'd pretty much spit in my face and said fuck you.....if GSAs could coach smh.
Click to expand...
Did the LOD do anything?
 
So, if you ask a TM to do something and they do an eye roll or big dramatic sigh is that insubordination?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

S
Advice for balancing coaching/training TMs with tasks?
Replies
22
Views
4K
WHS
WHS
1
Coachings
Replies
9
Views
4K
NotCynicalYet
N
1
Coaching questions
Replies
2
Views
3K
MrT
M
N
SETL routines, got my first coaching
Replies
18
Views
2K
commiecorvus
commiecorvus
T
Can you coach a Team Member that is not in your area?
Replies
11
Views
2K
Hardlinesmaster
Hardlinesmaster
Back
Top