Archived late to orientation - rejected

[elroja]

Wondering if this sounds reasonable:

I've got two kids that went through interview process and received a job offer with no influence or help from me. One got an email saying to show up for orientation at 2am on someday and the other received no email. They get calls last Thursday asking them to come in the next day for orientation. HR person says, "Between 12-4pm". Kid 1 thinks this means "come in some time between 12-4pm". Both have only ever had one job and a didn't expect a 4 hour orientation. They ride together to save gas and show up at 1pm. HR person comes out, tells them they were late and kid 1 explains the misunderstanding. HR tells them they can come to the next day's orientation but then calls them both 2 hours later telling them that they were actually considered no-shows and they will not be hired.

 

[Xanatos]

Based on that exact wording, the kids should've gotten a second chance. If it weren't for that, I'd give HR a high five for getting rid of people who can't show up on time; Target is way too lenient with attendance sometimes. But with that wording, it's probably unfair.

 

[SFSFun]

It sounds like the person they talked to was going to give them a second chance, but they got overridden by someone higher up. And if the store is having multiple orientations per week, they are probably hiring enough that they decided it wasn't worth the risk of having more misunderstandings like that.

 

[elroja]

It was the HR-ETL...is there anyone that can override her?

 

[Xanatos]

It was the HR-ETL...is there anyone that can override her?

STL.

 

[elroja]

I've seen team members that come in late weekly, have multiple no call- no shows and incidents on file and it still took nearly a year to get them fired. Kids show up late to orientation because of misunderstanding a single verbal direction (probably because she has an auditory processing disorder) and they don't get another chance? It's no risk or skin off Target's nose to let them come the next day. She literally has been late once in the last year on her job due to car trouble. Her boss cried tears of joy when she asked to withdraw her two weeks notice. I'm salty.

 

[Xanatos]

It's very difficult to get rid of someone once they're past their 90 days. If someone shows up late to orientation, there is a decent chance that this is a sign of bad things to come. The STL has a choice - keep the person and risk spending a bunch of payroll on someone who we're likely to get rid of within the next 90 days, or just cut ties now. Again, I'll say that the misunderstanding sucks and probably warrants a second chance, although I'd have to have actually listened to the conversation myself to really decide. From the STL's perspective, it's best to just get rid of them now.

 

[Tessa120]

I've seen team members that come in late weekly, have multiple no call- no shows and incidents on file and it still took nearly a year to get them fired. Kids show up late to orientation because of misunderstanding a single verbal direction (probably because she has an auditory processing disorder) and they don't get another chance? It's no risk or skin off Target's nose to let them come the next day. She literally has been late once in the last year on her job due to car trouble. Her boss cried tears of joy when she asked to withdraw her two weeks notice. I'm salty.

Dumb question. Was the disorder disclosed during the interview? If so, you could look at ADA accommodations, one of which being clarity of communication, and assist as a disability advocate in getting her a second chance. Yeah, this is a retail job, but it would be good practice for teaching her how to get her protections when she starts looking at a long-term career.

 

[HRLady]

assist as a disability advocate in getting her a second chance.

OP - I second trying this. HR is supposed to take ADA seriously. Tell them about your kids' auditory processing disorder. Remember to use the key word: disability.

 

[CTLGR8]

Its just that , they were told the orientation is between 12 and 4.
Orientation!
Not like a music festival. With several acts.
They misunderstood that, both of them.
They should’ve asked for clarification.
How old are these kids anyway?

 

[HRLady]

Its just that , they were told the orientation is between 12 and 4.
Orientation!
Not like a music festival. With several acts.
They misunderstood that, both of them.
They should’ve asked for clarification.

I get what you are saying and yes, they should have asked for clarification from HR, or even OP, who already went through orientation. However, I have encountered people, besides OP's children, who thought orientation was just coming in at any time during the time range and filling out paperwork. Not everyone is aware that it takes 4 hours. That's why I say, "Orientation is at _:__PM. Remember to bring the necessary documents and arrive 15 mins earlier."

 

[elroja]

They are 17 and 25 but like I said...each has only ever had one job. I think she assumed "show up between" because the orientation for her current job took like...15 minutes. The older one had on the job training/orientation that took a few shifts over a week. We worry about disclosing disability for fear of discrimination. Especially with something like she has (I have it too). If you tell someone that sometimes, randomly when someone speaks to you it sounds like gobbledy-gook and you have to ask for things to be repeated when it doesn't make sense (it helps to be able to read lips and have context), sometimes 2-3 times...some management would probably think that wouldn't make for great customer relation skills. I will look into it further though for future jobs. I talked to the HR person to make sure I understood the situation clearly and mentioned the auditory processing issue. She insisted that they received "multiple emails" aside from the phone call (they didn't) and they can't ever make exceptions.

 

[elroja]

I was hired over 3 years ago. I really don't remember anything about my orientation so I didn't think to question what she believed was expected. I've thought about talking to the HR person and letting her know that they need clearer directions like HRLady above describes. Also, having an email that is factually accurate would have been a huge help in this situation. Don't know if she'd be open to feedback.

 

[CTLGR8]

It sounds unfair. Like an over reaction. They should go and talk to Hr Tl

 

[Tessa120]

The fear of discrimination is a genuine fear, but it's a double edged sword. In order for a company to evaluate if your needed accommodations are legally reasonable, they need to know what you need and why.

You don't have to say the gobbledy-gook part, but you can say that you have a disability that involves auditory processing and that written instruction would be needed or the repeating and clarification of oral instructions, extra communication with TLs and the LOD, stuff like that. Job Accommodation Network has an excellent list of accommodations and can actually list things you never thought of but would definitely be useful.
JAN - Job Accommodation Network - https://askjan.org/
https://askjan.org/
My daughter has a lot of communication problems, and my husband and I never realized how much we've adapted to her until she got a job and I had to start playing advocate because I could understand her but her managers couldn't. So you likely don't realize how much or what kind of accommodations your daughter needs since you've been meeting her needs for a couple of decades.

 

[HRLady]

I talked to the HR person to make sure I understood the situation clearly and mentioned the auditory processing issue. She insisted that they received "multiple emails" aside from the phone call (they didn't) and they can't ever make exceptions.

So, is the ETL-HR, who decided not to allow them a second chance, actually aware of their disability? Have you only been communiating with the HRTM who may or may not have received/relayed the info prior to the decision? Try talking to the ETL-HR to make sure. If that doesn't work, try the STL or hotline.

 

[OverworkedHRTM]

They both should’ve received the email because it’s automatically sent. I will say that at least at my store we won’t put the exact date and time we are planning to have orientation we tell people to wait for our call because things change. Which is probably why the email said 2 am. It sounds very unlikely that HR used the phrasing show up between 12-4. Did you hear the conversation or is it just what your kids are telling you? Most likely it was misheard and I would’ve repeated what she said back to her to make sure I had the time correct. She may have said something like “orientation will be from 12-4” to let them know how long to plan on being there. But if you show up late we definitely won’t let you come in after we’ve already begun orientation and if we feel like we properly communicated to you we don’t have to give a second chance, that’s up to our discretion. If you’re late to orientation most likely you’ll be late to future shifts. Everyone always has a “good” reason for being late.

 

[elroja]

Great resource Jenna120! Thank you!

 

[elroja]

They both should’ve received the email because it’s automatically sent. I will say that at least at my store we won’t put the exact date and time we are planning to have orientation we tell people to wait for our call because things change. Which is probably why the email said 2 am. It sounds very unlikely that HR used the phrasing show up between 12-4. Did you hear the conversation or is it just what your kids are telling you? Most likely it was misheard and I would’ve repeated what she said back to her to make sure I had the time correct. She may have said something like “orientation will be from 12-4” to let them know how long to plan on being there. But if you show up late we definitely won’t let you come in after we’ve already begun orientation and if we feel like we properly communicated to you we don’t have to give a second chance, that’s up to our discretion. If you’re late to orientation most likely you’ll be late to future shifts. Everyone always has a “good” reason for being late.

I didn't hear the conversation...HR could very well have said "will be from 12-4" and either she misheard it or just assumed it was a time window like the job fair was. I completely understand the concern that it indicates a pattern of behavior if you show up late but it wouldn't have hurt anything to give them another chance. They show up late during their 90 days...chuck 'em. I get it. I've told them for a few years now how fair Target is and then literally their first encounter with them they get rejected over a misunderstanding. Sucks. And worse...my son trusted his sister and it wasn't even his fault but he paid for her mistake.

 

[OverworkedHRTM]

I didn't hear the conversation...HR could very well have said "will be from 12-4" and either she misheard it or just assumed it was a time window like the job fair was. I completely understand the concern that it indicates a pattern of behavior if you show up late but it wouldn't have hurt anything to give them another chance. They show up late during their 90 days...chuck 'em. I get it. I've told them for a few years now how fair Target is and then literally their first encounter with them they get rejected over a misunderstanding. Sucks. And worse...my son trusted his sister and it wasn't even his fault but he paid for her mistake.

I agree with you I probably would’ve given them a second chance to show up. Did they both receive separate calls? Or was one told to relay the message to the other?

 

[elroja]

So, is the ETL-HR, who decided not to allow them a second chance, actually aware of their disability? Have you only been communiating with the HRTM who may or may not have received/relayed the info prior to the decision? Try talking to the ETL-HR to make sure. If that doesn't work, try the STL or hotline.

The ETL-HR wasn't told about her disability until after the fact. She is the only person any of us have been dealing with throughout this issue. I'm not going to pursue it further. My daughter promised her existing manager she wouldn't quit the rest of this year if she could withdraw her 2 weeks notice. She feels a strong sense of obligation to them even though it's a total shit job. My son agreed to have his application sent to a different store at the suggestion of the ETL-HR. But he literally never got a single email (I guess they'd call though) and he can't correct anything on the target.com site to see if it's wrong.

 

[elroja]

I agree with you I probably would’ve given them a second chance to show up. Did they both receive separate calls? Or was one told to relay the message to the other?

They got separate calls but she convinced her brother that it was a time window and he trusted her.

 

[HRLady]

The ETL-HR wasn't told about her disability until after the fact. She is the only person any of us have been dealing with throughout this issue. I'm not going to pursue it further. My daughter promised her existing manager she wouldn't quit the rest of this year if she could withdraw her 2 weeks notice. She feels a strong sense of obligation to them even though it's a total shit job. My son agreed to have his application sent to a different store at the suggestion of the ETL-HR. But he literally never got a single email (I guess they'd call though) and he can't correct anything on the target.com site to see if it's wrong.

Smh. Honestly, any decent HR person would know that with ADA it would be smarter to give them one more chance just to be on the safe side. Plus, it was an honest mistake.

 

[OverworkedHRTM]

They got separate calls but she convinced her brother that it was a time window and he trusted her.

That’s when I would’ve called back to the store to double check the time. If he gets a call from the other store and gets another interview and job offer he should make sure they have the correct email then and if the email is wrong, make sure to ask if they will be planning on calling to confirm orientation. I’ve never heard of any store not calling though.

 

[Digi_E]

i have a question did everyone else arrive on time for orientation? its a valid questions, if my STL had this situation and everyone else got the message it would look like they didn't confirm the time when they got the call. Stores are under a lot of pressure these days for payroll and things are tight, takes hours per tm for an orientation and if they give 2 ppl a chance then they have to give everyone else a chance to be fair and there goes training hours. I'm not trying to sound mean or anything but i'm giving some insight on why an STL would override HR.