leadership?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Jun 11, 2011
Messages
9
#1
Ok so lately when I close and am in hl, and the tl is in sl. Im put as "leader" of hl zone. Which I dont mind at all. Except for there is select few people who you can tell 20 times how to do something and they wont listen. Ive realised talking to team leads, just as "leadership tips" or w.e has helped so I figgured I would try this.

By people I mean people who have been called into the tsc 100 times and called coperate to whine. And I have a decent relationship with management so at some pointduring the night they come to ask how theyre doing. I even said once I feel like I'm tatteling, but I'm not going to lie either.

I just feel like I've beaten myself silly with a brick. Theyre have been new team member who started after and complain about said person.

So far Ive been told "you can only do what you can do and thats it, other people will do what they will and you can't control that"

and Would them putting me as "leader" like this be any indication of them possibly looking at me as a tl? or no?
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2011
Messages
25,230
#2
That sl tl needs to get off carpet & walk hl to on zoning, cafs & tm's. Also, the lod should be doing the same thing too. Those tm's who arent listening to you, they will be coached soon.
One way to resolve the issue, do exactly what you told to do by tl or lod. Zone this area, help guests, go for backup, do cafs & your reshop. See what happens outside of your area. Don't stress yourself out!
Hopefully, your tl or lod will notice that other tm's are missing calls, on cell phones, not coming for backup, etc.
No hl tl's at night at my store happens twice a week.
Hang in there!
Here is a link on how to become a tl:
http://www.thebreakroom.us/showthread.php?t=61
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
100
#3
I just want to add that a lot of times in our store we will give a team member additional responsibilities if we are thinking they are TL "material" or they have asked for it. We always talk to them first though, we don't just do it.

And you can only do what you can do. HLMaster said it..Don't stress yourself out!
 
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
91
#4
In our store its different. We give low potential tms tasks that we know they cant complete so we can coach them out and then term them. If you are leadership potential then a tl would have taken you as a mentee. If nobody has, they may be setting you up to fail.
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
579
#5
No they are not looking at you as being a TL. They simply see you as being the most competent out of the bunch (though that is not to imply you are a rockstar, sometimes we have to pick the smallest and least smelly turd). You previously stated you have an attitude with the job itself and that you were questioned about the attitude by the leadership team in your store and if I can catch it from a simple forum post you better damn well believe the leadership in your stores knows it.
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Messages
129
#6
Wow guys great fricken way to treat a fellow team member... You two sound like a$$holes.... NOP I'm fairly certain that's illegal under the fair business practices... and Stupid rules.... You just sound like a jerk....

How about some positive and constructive help/criticism like what hlm offered rather than being jerks ;)
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Messages
129
#8
I know you did I was pointing out that you did in fact offer something good As opposed to what they had said
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2011
Messages
25,230
#10
Sorry for the confusion. What I am suggesting to the Op, is offering them a solution to the situation. We have a combo of tm's at my store, good, weak & bad tm's. There is hope for my folks. Just make sure they train correctly & given a team goal to complete the task. But with no hl present, it can hard to do. That is why the sl tl & lod need to step up to the plate. I got a new stl & they are taking no prisoners.
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Messages
129
#11
Yeah I know what you meant HLM... I was simply pointing out that NOP and Stupid Rules were being jerks to the op.... I was commending you for being positive to him and you deserve a GTC for that :)
 
B

Barcode

Guest
#13
@softlineszoner

I already know you have a foul attitude at work from the previous thread but I'll try and be civil here.

TMs are NOT supposed to "give orders" to other TMs, that would be a TL's job. Instead you can make "requests", and say something like "Hey _____, would you be able to ______?" instead of "Hey __________ I need you to __________."

Treating your fellow TMs with respect and having a good work ethic is the best way to gain your TL's attention.
 
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
91
#14
Wow guys great fricken way to treat a fellow team member... You two sound like a$$holes.... NOP I'm fairly certain that's illegal under the fair business practices... and Stupid rules.... You just sound like a jerk....

How about some positive and constructive help/criticism like what hlm offered rather than being jerks ;)
so then you're familiar with the conversations that occur during the exec meetings?
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Messages
129
#15
No I've got no idea what goes on during an exec meeting nor do I give a flying monkeys anus. What I'm saying is it's ILLEGAL for an employer to PURPOSELY give an employee tasks in which they know the employee cannot complete so that they can fire them.... I'd like to know what store you work at so that I can report you and the store leadership to the better business bureau and to corporate.....
 
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
91
#16
No I've got no idea what goes on during an exec meeting nor do I give a flying monkeys anus. What I'm saying is it's ILLEGAL for an employer to PURPOSELY give an employee tasks in which they know the employee cannot complete so that they can fire them.... I'd like to know what store you work at so that I can report you and the store leadership to the better business bureau and to corporate.....
I've worked in two other states and its been like that at those stores as well. Just saying if you've never been to those meetings then you can't rule out it isn't happening at your store too.
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Messages
129
#17
That may be but it's still illegal and you know it. That's why I am going to do what I can to report this issue.
 
B

Barcode

Guest
#18
If they're trying to get rid of somebody, maybe its that "somebody" that is the problem and not spot.

Just sayin'
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Messages
129
#19
He ne'er mentioned people who misbehaved, acted inappropriately, or were not doing the job. He simply stated "low potential" team members. Just because someone isn't a top performer and doesn't have high potential for leadership does not mean under any circumstance is it alright to do what you can to terminate said employee...
 
B

Barcode

Guest
#21
He ne'er mentioned people who misbehaved, acted inappropriately, or were not doing the job. He simply stated "low potential" team members. Just because someone isn't a top performer and doesn't have high potential for leadership does not mean under any circumstance is it alright to do what you can to terminate said employee...
If they are low potential and Target wants to get rid of them, that is perfectly in their right. There are tons of hard working people who want jobs right now, and Target won't have a hard time replacing lazy TMs.

We used to have a lazy Cart Attendant, and when he showed no signs of trying to improve, I ratted him out to our former-GSTL. She coached him on his poor performance, then eventually he got caught taking a 50 minute lunch and they instantly termed him. Now we have a much more ethical, pleasant, and hardworking CA that takes the job seriously. Good trade imo.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Messages
129
#22
If they are low potential and Target wants to get rid of them, that is perfectly in their right. There are tons of hard working people who want jobs right now, and Target won't have a hard time replacing lazy TMs.

We used to have a lazy Cart Attendant, and when he showed no signs of trying to improve, I ratted him out to our former-GSTL. She coached him on his poor performance, then eventually he got caught taking a 50 minute lunch and they instantly termed him. Now we have a much more ethical, pleasant, and hardworking CA that takes the job seriously. Good trade imo.

That's perfectly understandable. He on his own proved he needed to be fired. What NOP has said is they specifically give team members a task that they know that can't complete either due to incompetence or improper training so that they have a reason to fire them. That my friend is illegal and unethical. And will be promptly reported to the proper authorities....
 
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
497
#23
At my store you pretty much have to show no effort/curse someone out/steal in order to get termed if you're a sales floor team member. It's an entry level position, not every TM is going to have TL or ETL potential. There's a difference between someone who is giving an effort and not doing well (they should receive additional training) and someone who is not giving an effort. This can be ascertained through consistent monitoring of the TM.
 
B

Barcode

Guest
#24
That's perfectly understandable. He on his own proved he needed to be fired. What NOP has said is they specifically give team members a task that they know that can't complete either due to incompetence or improper training so that they have a reason to fire them. That my friend is illegal and unethical. And will be promptly reported to the proper authorities....
Hard to prove if they were setting up the TM to fail or not. The work they set the TM up for could be well intentioned for all we know.

All of the people termed at my store deserved it one way or another, so I apologize if I'm skeptical of people criticizing Target for terminating them/coworkers
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Messages
129
#25
Hard to prove if they were setting up the TM to fail or not. The work they set the TM up for could be well intentioned for all we know.

All of the people termed at my store deserved it one way or another, so I apologize if I'm skeptical of people criticizing Target for terminating them/coworkers
I known would be hard to prove in some cases but according to a member of this forum named NOP not our problem he stated that they PURPOSELY GIVE LOW POTENTIAL TEAM MEMBERS TASKS WHICH THEY KNOW THEY CANNOT COMPLETE FOR THE PURPOSE OF TERMINATION. Can I not spell that out any more cleary for you???
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Messages
129
#26
Unless he isn't in leadership like he has lead me to believe ten yea it could be speculation. But since he has said it as if he is a leader himself who does it himself then I have reason to believe it to be true and therefore Target Executives and other leaders are committing illegal labor acts and should be punished. As should the whole company.
 
B

Barcode

Guest
#27
I known would be hard to prove in some cases but according to a member of this forum named NOP not our problem he stated that they PURPOSELY GIVE LOW POTENTIAL TEAM MEMBERS TASKS WHICH THEY KNOW THEY CANNOT COMPLETE FOR THE PURPOSE OF TERMINATION. Can I not spell that out any more cleary for you???
How can a team member know what they are purposely doing? Merely hearsay.

Not trying to create an argument here, just telling it how it is. they may be breaking labor laws, or they may not, we dont know.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Formina Sage💯

Probably still better than you at the stacker
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
1,644
#28
What is meant by "giving a tm tasks they know they cannot complete"?

Is this a case of assigning responsibilities outside their core roles, or simply overestimating the TM's knowledge of a certain process?

An ETL/TL could ask a TM to set a salesplanner for them, and if the TM didn't actually know how to do so, it would be the TM's responsibility to say so to that higher-up. The higher-up may not be in the wrong if they simply aren't aware that the TM hasn't been trained in setting endcaps.

Imerzan has a point: there is no legal basis for the accusation that an exec or team lead has assigned you work that they/you know you can't carry out, with the intention of terming you for incompetence/insubordination. The only way this could work is if there was some sort of violation of a Disabled Persons' Workplace rights law, say if you were in a wheelchair and a TL asked you to perform heavy lifting or something of that sort. Obviously there is a problem there.
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Messages
129
#29
Ok but what you both obviously don't understand is what NOP has said.... Maybe looking back at his first post in the thread might open your eyes? Or do I actually have to go quote it?
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Messages
129
#30
In our store its different. We give low potential tms tasks that we know they cant complete so we can coach them out and then term them. If you are leadership potential then a tl would have taken you as a mentee. If nobody has, they may be setting you up to fail.

I even put it in bold for you all to read.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Messages
129
#31
And THAT ^^^^ up there.... That BOLD sentence.... That is illegal and unethical. If that is truly going on then something needs to be done..... Sheesh....
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Messages
129
#33
Uh what? Seriously was that necessary? If you don't have anything to contribute to the conversation, why post? My posts are relavent to the topic and I'm sorry that I didn't think of everything I wanted to say in one single post. Is that a crime?

Also does it cause you pain, stress, agony if I double or triple post? Like seriously?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 8, 2011
Messages
25,230
#34
By using the edit or quote(+) button, you can put multi quotes into one post. That way, others who new or late into the conversation know the details.
Now back on topic.
 
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
91
#36
He ne'er mentioned people who misbehaved, acted inappropriately, or were not doing the job. He simply stated "low potential" team members. Just because someone isn't a top performer and doesn't have high potential for leadership does not mean under any circumstance is it alright to do what you can to terminate said employee...
I would classify people who misbehaved, acted inappropriately, or not doing their job as low potential. wouldn't you?
 
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
91
#37
That's perfectly understandable. He on his own proved he needed to be fired. What NOP has said is they specifically give team members a task that they know that can't complete either due to incompetence or improper training so that they have a reason to fire them. That my friend is illegal and unethical. And will be promptly reported to the proper authorities....
Never said a thing about improper training, did I? Must have missed that one. If a tm signs off a learning plan they are officially accountable for everything in it once they signed it, if you cant do something in it and you're assigned to it, you will be documented. If you didnt know how or it wasnt clear then you should have asked before you signed.
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
100
#39
No mas. Obtener sobre él.
I have no idea what that means :confused:

Anywho..

It is entirely possible to assign a team member tasks that you know they cannot complete for the purposes of coaching them out the door. I consider it unethical myself and if a team member is truly low performing, unnecessary because you should have already been working with them.

Low performers and low potential are 2 different things first of all. Low potential means they do not have the potiental to be anything more than they already are, a team member. Every workplace has these folks but it does not mean they need to be shown the door as long as they are fulfilling their core roles. Low performers, on the other hand, do not fulfill their core roles satisfactorily. These folks should be coached..however..

Coaching is not meant for the purpose of terming people. If it was, we wouldn't call it coaching, we would call it writing you up. Coaching is for the purpose of clueing a TM in to the fact that they are not performing to their core roles, that you are aware of it, what the expectation for them is in the future. It is an opportunity for them to improve. One that they deserve.

If a team member chooses not to act on the feedback they are given and continues to fail meeting expectations that is when the coaching should start escalating into a CCA (Counseling and Corrective Action).

As a team leader, especially as senior, it is my job to make sure I give TM's every opportunity to succeed. That is what coaching is about. Is there a limit? Absolutely, you can only bang your head against the wall for so long, but long before that limit is reached every avenue should be explored to help these TM's succeed.

That being said, I want to remind everyone that delivery is everything. The way you say it can determine the direction a conversation takes. There is no reason to be confrontational here, we can all learn from each other if we remember that challenging each other is okay and educating each other is great, but being confrontational does nothing but make people defensive and could close the door to making change.

*taking my SrTL hat off*

Sorry for the long post :eek:
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
579
#42
You keep saying it is illegal to give someone a task you know they can not perform. Will you please show me what federal law that is breaking.
 
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
497
#44
Uh what? Seriously was that necessary? If you don't have anything to contribute to the conversation, why post? My posts are relavent to the topic and I'm sorry that I didn't think of everything I wanted to say in one single post. Is that a crime?

Also does it cause you pain, stress, agony if I double or triple post? Like seriously?
You're incredibly rude. Also the fact that you think you can police a TM who is saying things over the internet is laughable, that combined with the fact you can't even stop double and triple posting shows you lack the ability to understand how the internet works. You're not going to find this guy, and if you did you'll never be able to prove this is going on... You're not on the clock dude, give it up internet police.

By using the edit or quote(+) button, you can put multi quotes into one post. That way, others who new or late into the conversation know the details.
Now back on topic.
Thank you. It's not hard. It makes it hard to follow a conversation when one person occupies half the page with his posts which could have been two posts.

Seriously? It's 2011, people have been complaining about the dreaded "double post" for over a decade. Get over it.
Drop the attitude.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 8, 2011
Messages
162
#45
Softlines Owns My Soul said:
You're incredibly rude. Also the fact that you think you can police a TM who is saying things over the internet is laughable, that combined with the fact you can't even stop double and triple posting shows you lack the ability to understand how the internet works. You're not going to find this guy, and if you did you'll never be able to prove this is going on... You're not on the clock dude, give it up internet police.
Do you realise the irony in telling someone they're not the internet police, and then telling them they don't know "how the internet works"? Are you the internet police? Oh please, tell us how to use the internet correctly, Mr. Internet Officer.

Softlines Owns My Soul said:
Drop the attitude.
Do you realise the irony in telling someone to "drop the attitude", with a similar attitude you think I have?

But seriously, double posts have been happening on the internet for OVER 10 YEARS. It's not hard not to do them, but it's also not hard, to ignore any annoyance they might cause, and not care about them.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2011
Messages
25,230
#46
On double posting, it could be some folks were unable to figure out how to correct the 2nd posting. That's why I try to explain in simple terms. My mom loves me because I make it simple & easy to do.
Now back on topic.
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Messages
129
#49
Softlines owns my soul.... You're a DOUCHE. I know how the frigging Internet works. Probably use it more than you have. You're just a whiney little girl looking for an excuse to b**ch and complain about whatever you can. I made multiple posts e sued I didn't FEEL like going back and editing a post to add more info. Plus another post holds more weight and shows that the person had yet another thing to say. And the fact that t shows that someone edited a post can make them look like they're incompetent and that their first post was full of mistakes and that they had to go back and fix them.

And back tothe topic at hand.... I know KNOW the federal or state laws prohibiting it, but I sure as hell know it exists somewhere under the federal labor laws and one or two of the fair labor acts out there. I don't care what any of you spineless kids think. If there is something wrong going on should there not be something done about it? Are we seriously supposed to lay back and take it? I don't think so. That's the lazy b*tch way to go about it. Man up and get something accomplished rather than sittinghere and letting it happen. I've seen this gonon at my store a few tomes and noe that I hear from NOP that it's happened at his and others, well then something needs to be done. But I can see you are all complacent with the BS that happens around you and only care Bout your damn selves. You don't care about the innocent employee who is just there to do some work and get a paycheck. Not everyone who works for Target wants to be a TL or ETL, and should not be punished for that. Just cause they shoe low POTENTIAL doesn't mean they should be termed. And I know you all keep ranting on about how I'm wrong with what I'm saying BUT IM NOT! I know what I am talking about. Seen it happen and now know it's happening elsewhere. So please... PLEASE stop telling me I'm WRONG because I'm NOT.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Joined
Jun 8, 2011
Messages
25,230
#50
Now. Take a deep breath, please. Things can be different outside of ap. Sl owns by soul is cool. Please respect that. Follow bp & "hope" they are the best options for new tm's. Other workcenters could have a different perspective on your workcenter.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top