Archived No more opening LOD?

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Rock Lobster said:
No, again everyone needs to forget what they already know at Target, the CEO is basically changing expectations to align with other retailers. The point is that there is NO reason to get the store zoned perfectly by 11PM. When you complete your zone, the store is looking its best, and its to impress who? The next people to see it are the flow team! So company wide you have a pretty large amount of payroll being spent at night to zone the store, so that flow can stock through the same aisles again and then the store slowly deteriorates throughout the day as it gets shopped. The store looks its WORST at 5PM, because it has been about 24 hours since it has been zoned and this is supposed to be the peak hour at most stores.

They are saying get over the "great at the end of the night" expectation because its been brainwashed into us to do it that way. They are saying stop wasting payroll to impress your morning team, and instead think of efficiency. If you have a bit more time to get freight done, they are saying it makes more sense to stock the aisle, backstock it, zone it, and scan it (this is the grocery rollout direction only right now).
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So I have to ask: When exactly is the store going to look great?
 
Deli Ninja said:
How many TLs/SrTLs are going to be fired after this gets rolled out, when people not used to leadership closing duties accidentally leave TMs behind in the store? Especially with a number of higher volume stores switching from overnight to 4am? It's going to be a circus in some stores.
As for all the zoning for the day being done at 5pm... good luck getting everyone on board at my store, not to mention there simply not being enough hours to move many closing shifts to shifts during the day. Backup can't even get off the lanes in a timely manner... It's sad how many problems in store could be solved by simply adding more hours and holding leadership (TLs as well as ETLs) accountable for what they can change. Eliminating ETLs isn't going to make that any easier, unless district people become significantly more involved on the store level. Like one+ visit a week more involved until stores are actually running smoothly. No more of this wasting payroll to make the store look great once a month bullshit. It makes the store worse for the rest of the month.
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In terms of turnover, I think you will start to see plenty of it at the ETL level. Many districts will be heavy for a long time, and the extras will leave over time. However, there is something the company needs to remember. Most ETLs cannot handle Log. There is a reason your best ETLs end up in that spot, and it's because they have the impossible task of getting a truck worked on too little of payroll. There is a huge difference between that and SL, where there is pressure but your peers do not really care if your adjacencies get done.

Many ETLs are going to flake. They are going to get upset that they have all this freight to work and not enough payroll to do it. They are going to stress out and quit under the pressure, and only your best will survive... and that is likely the strategy behind it too.
 
Rock Lobster said:
In terms of turnover, I think you will start to see plenty of it at the ETL level. Many districts will be heavy for a long time, and the extras will leave over time. However, there is something the company needs to remember. Most ETLs cannot handle Log. There is a reason your best ETLs end up in that spot, and it's because they have the impossible task of getting a truck worked on too little of payroll. There is a huge difference between that and SL, where there is pressure but your peers do not really care if your adjacencies get done.

Many ETLs are going to flake. They are going to get upset that they have all this freight to work and not enough payroll to do it. They are going to stress out and quit under the pressure, and only your best will survive... and that is likely the strategy behind it too.
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we're doomed.
 
This pretty much aligns with the grocery store I worked for, which was part of a national chain. The store manager and the assistant managers mostly worked during the morning and afternoon. The structure works. Some people here can't picture it because they have only seen how Target does it.

You don't need a salary person in the store all the time to keep it running. Most Target stores would be fine having just an STL and two ETLs. And as much as I respect a ETL who can "get their hands dirty" and work side by side with the team, it's not the norm in the industry. Most companies have their managers lead and make decisions while the employees do the work. With very little cross over between the two.
 
greatteam said:
Thing is...

If it's "industry standard" and the industry is performing so poorly, is it really a good idea for us to take it on? Become like all the rest, who are doing poorly? Seems like a poor choice.
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You're comparing apples to oranges.
 
greatteam said:
Thing is...

If it's "industry standard" and the industry is performing so poorly, is it really a good idea for us to take it on? Become like all the rest, who are doing poorly? Seems like a poor choice.
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So we should continue doing the same things and hoping for better results?
 
SFSFun said:
So we should continue doing the same things and hoping for better results?
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Major rant ahead lol :eek::eek::eek:

I feel like our current plan would be fine if leadership actually enforced stuff and held people accountable.

Over the last several months that's been happening at my store, and the improvements are pretty drastic. We're performing at the top of our district and sales are through the roof, whereas last year we were struggling in nearly every area.

I feel like Target has this obsession with overhauling everything...that doesn't need to happen! They just need to encourage leadership to have TMs take their jobs seriously. People still get away with a lot of slacking/loafing at my store- I've seen TMs backstock maybe 2 items over the span of 15min because they were having a conversation. So if that's still able to go on and we've made the massive improvements we have, it leads me to believe that nearly any system can be run relatively well if you just ENFORCE the guidelines of that system and force TMs to shut up and work. There are so many ways we could improve at my store, and if we're performing this well while still having obvious "opportunities" I can only imagine how great our store would be if everyone was serious about doing their job.

It blows my mind how many people feel like they're entitled to do ANYTHING even remotely enjoyable while at work. Thankfully, most companies foster a relatively enjoyable atmosphere, but you're not getting paid to show up and hang out with friends- you're getting paid to show up and carry out a task. ((That sounds super creepy/capitalistic/far right wing...I'm as far left as they come, but people who refuse to contribute their fair share (of labor/money/etc) piss me off because it breaks down very important systems, whether that's government (welfare) or in companies (loafing employees wasting time/payroll))

My STL asked our flow team to try to be more quiet once the store opens, and a group of like 7 TMs started ranting as soon as he walked away, talking about how this was slave labor, etc. He didn't even say "no talking allowed" just a simple "can you guys be a little more quiet while there are guests in the store so they can't hear your conversations clear across the store?" and they acted like it was the biggest issue in the world. THAT needs to be shut down immediately. People with that mentality are going to fuck up any process Target tries to enforce. The conversations these guys have are pretty explicit and they range from childish to offensive...but our STL was willing to look the other way in regards to content...he just wanted the volume lowered!!!

People who think they're entitled to a cushy job that lets them hang out with friends, do the work half-assed, and flat out ignore the tasks they don't want to do will guarantee the failure of every system. It blows my mind that the powers that be feel the need to come up with an entirely new system, when really, all they need is to 1. Fix the fucking capacities of POGs that throws everything off. 2. Hold TMs to a higher standard and 3. allow individual stores to tweak the process in a way that fits their particular store. ((I mean, okay, I totally see the benefit of organized pallets and having people take charge of a certain area...but they need to stop acting like our current way of doing things is flawed. It could be better, sure, but 90% of the problems come from not actually following/enforcing the current system!
 
It totally 100% agree with zoning through the day. You should look your best when the people you want to impress are actually in the store. But here is a great big news flash...We have 2 people on the sales floor open to close. Thats it. How do you possibly provide great service keep the store looking fantastic and fill the floor at the same time. Not gonna happen. No matter what time of the day the store is to look its best you need the bodies to make that happen.
 
@callmetaylor you're absolutely right, but I'm hopeful this process will correct a lot of those problems by holding people accountable for their specific areas. The other huge benefit is reducing backstock to the point where we don't need to throw payroll into a black hole of pulling and backstocking every day. That will free up backroom space for SFS, which is without a doubt where the future will be.

Half of all Target.com orders are fulfilled by a store now, but three years ago SFS and STS didn't even exist. I can't imagine what it's going to look like in another three years.
 
tellmeaboutatime said:
It totally 100% agree with zoning through the day. You should look your best when the people you want to impress are actually in the store. But here is a great big news flash...We have 2 people on the sales floor open to close. Thats it. How do you possibly provide great service keep the store looking fantastic and fill the floor at the same time. Not gonna happen. No matter what time of the day the store is to look its best you need the bodies to make that happen.
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They're not using the existing sales floor team for this. They take everyone from almost every logistics team, and move them to the sales floor.
 
SFSFun said:
That will free up backroom space for SFS, which is without a doubt where the future will be
Click to expand...

Its tricky because there are so many stores without SFS. I personally think store pickup is the future because it's something Amazon hasn't done yet although they are getting ready to pilot with grocery in the Seattle area.
 
callmetaylor said:
Major rant ahead lol :eek::eek::eek:

I feel like our current plan would be fine if leadership actually enforced stuff and held people accountable.

Over the last several months that's been happening at my store, and the improvements are pretty drastic. We're performing at the top of our district and sales are through the roof, whereas last year we were struggling in nearly every area.

I feel like Target has this obsession with overhauling everything...that doesn't need to happen! They just need to encourage leadership to have TMs take their jobs seriously. People still get away with a lot of slacking/loafing at my store- I've seen TMs backstock maybe 2 items over the span of 15min because they were having a conversation. So if that's still able to go on and we've made the massive improvements we have, it leads me to believe that nearly any system can be run relatively well if you just ENFORCE the guidelines of that system and force TMs to shut up and work. There are so many ways we could improve at my store, and if we're performing this well while still having obvious "opportunities" I can only imagine how great our store would be if everyone was serious about doing their job.

It blows my mind how many people feel like they're entitled to do ANYTHING even remotely enjoyable while at work. Thankfully, most companies foster a relatively enjoyable atmosphere, but you're not getting paid to show up and hang out with friends- you're getting paid to show up and carry out a task. ((That sounds super creepy/capitalistic/far right wing...I'm as far left as they come, but people who refuse to contribute their fair share (of labor/money/etc) piss me off because it breaks down very important systems, whether that's government (welfare) or in companies (loafing employees wasting time/payroll))

My STL asked our flow team to try to be more quiet once the store opens, and a group of like 7 TMs started ranting as soon as he walked away, talking about how this was slave labor, etc. He didn't even say "no talking allowed" just a simple "can you guys be a little more quiet while there are guests in the store so they can't hear your conversations clear across the store?" and they acted like it was the biggest issue in the world. THAT needs to be shut down immediately. People with that mentality are going to fuck up any process Target tries to enforce. The conversations these guys have are pretty explicit and they range from childish to offensive...but our STL was willing to look the other way in regards to content...he just wanted the volume lowered!!!

People who think they're entitled to a cushy job that lets them hang out with friends, do the work half-assed, and flat out ignore the tasks they don't want to do will guarantee the failure of every system. It blows my mind that the powers that be feel the need to come up with an entirely new system, when really, all they need is to 1. Fix the fucking capacities of POGs that throws everything off. 2. Hold TMs to a higher standard and 3. allow individual stores to tweak the process in a way that fits their particular store. ((I mean, okay, I totally see the benefit of organized pallets and having people take charge of a certain area...but they need to stop acting like our current way of doing things is flawed. It could be better, sure, but 90% of the problems come from not actually following/enforcing the current system!
Click to expand...

The only problem with the current System is that there is actually no way to consistently and more importantly accurately, trace where the problem lies. They give a goal which is equal to building a Mansion with an axe, The wood will get sliced, but do you see me hammering in nails with an axe?
 
HRZone said:
Its tricky because there are so many stores without SFS. I personally think store pickup is the future because it's something Amazon hasn't done yet although they are getting ready to pilot with grocery in the Seattle area.
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Millennials don't want to order something online and then go into a store anyways. We want it delivered to our door within a day or two.
 
SFSFun said:
Millennials don't want to order something online and then go into a store anyways. We want it delivered to our door within a day or two.
Click to expand...

I don't know...I'm personally not a "store pickup" kind of person, but I know a lot of people who actually seem pained by having to wait a day or two for stuff to ship to them. If they can make it to where the pickup is super fast (didn't one retail store put peoples stuff in lockers and send them a combination? The customer had already paid so they never even had to talk to anyone in the store- just go in, pick up your stuff, and leave) then I think a lot of millennials would be interested.

In its current state there is little incentive for in-store pickup (at least at my store)...the customer has to go to guest services, which functions as an extra register, so there's always a line there. The funny thing is half the time the guest would be able to leave the store faster if they just went and bought their items and went to a normal checkout as opposed to having to wait for guest services to help them. ...and the vast majority of my store's guest service TMs are kind of terrible/slow/lazy, so that makes it even worse!

Despite all the talk I think we're still ~5 years away from being able to consistently have something delivered to your house from Amazon within an hour or two- there are so many legal and logistical things they have to jump through to do near-immediate delivery. Perfecting an in-store pickup could be the perfect solution for many people for quite a few years, so I think it's worth investing time/resources/energy in.
 
callmetaylor said:
I don't know...I'm personally not a "store pickup" kind of person, but I know a lot of people who actually seem pained by having to wait a day or two for stuff to ship to them. If they can make it to where the pickup is super fast (didn't one retail store put peoples stuff in lockers and send them a combination? The customer had already paid so they never even had to talk to anyone in the store- just go in, pick up your stuff, and leave) then I think a lot of millennials would be interested.

In its current state there is little incentive for in-store pickup (at least at my store)...the customer has to go to guest services, which functions as an extra register, so there's always a line there. The funny thing is half the time the guest would be able to leave the store faster if they just went and bought their items and went to a normal checkout as opposed to having to wait for guest services to help them. ...and the vast majority of my store's guest service TMs are kind of terrible/slow/lazy, so that makes it even worse!

Despite all the talk I think we're still ~5 years away from being able to consistently have something delivered to your house from Amazon within an hour or two- there are so many legal and logistical things they have to jump through to do near-immediate delivery. Perfecting an in-store pickup could be the perfect solution for many people for quite a few years, so I think it's worth investing time/resources/energy in.
Click to expand...

Yes people love it, and I cannot understand it in the slightest (and I am young!)... However, I think its a male vs female thing more than even a generational thing. As a dude, I order online because I just remembered I wanted something and looked on my phone and saw it. The number one deterrent to me is when I finally find it online and hit checkout and then I do not feel like getting my card to get it because that site doesn't have my information. Amazon has the 1-click buy and it is what gets me, because I can do it while its on my mind and then I forget about it until its delivered. As a dude, I would NEVER shop online and then have to go get the item at a store. What is the point in that? Its like 2 steps (online AND going to the store) for something that could be done in one.

I think (might sound sexist), its a female thing. I think they often have busier lives in general and more going on, so its more of a "list" thing to them. From what I have seen, its like they "pre-shopped" it and they are planning out their day ahead of time. Like they think, "Tomorrow I need to do X, Y, and go to Target for Z... oh while I am in bed before I sleep I'll just shop it and make sure its there and that is a "pending" status instead of incomplete" so it feels like its been almost checked off? Just my observation.
 
Rock Lobster said:
Yes people love it, and I cannot understand it in the slightest (and I am young!)... However, I think its a male vs female thing more than even a generational thing. As a dude, I order online because I just remembered I wanted something and looked on my phone and saw it. The number one deterrent to me is when I finally find it online and hit checkout and then I do not feel like getting my card to get it because that site doesn't have my information. Amazon has the 1-click buy and it is what gets me, because I can do it while its on my mind and then I forget about it until its delivered. As a dude, I would NEVER shop online and then have to go get the item at a store. What is the point in that? Its like 2 steps (online AND going to the store) for something that could be done in one.

I think (might sound sexist), its a female thing. I think they often have busier lives in general and more going on, so its more of a "list" thing to them. From what I have seen, its like they "pre-shopped" it and they are planning out their day ahead of time. Like they think, "Tomorrow I need to do X, Y, and go to Target for Z... oh while I am in bed before I sleep I'll just shop it and make sure its there and that is a "pending" status instead of incomplete" so it feels like its been almost checked off? Just my observation.
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I would totally agree with you. My husband exclusively shops online and if he needs something he can't get online, he'll ask me to get it.
 
Rock Lobster said:
Yep the title "LOD" really won't matter. It is going to more a "manager" for each of the major areas. Every morning there should be a "Style LOD", "Food LOD", "Essentials LOD", and "Service LOD" conceptually. The actual LOD (the STL) won't really have to do anything but check in with those 4 main points. For example, your ETL-Style may work every morning but have Wednesdays off, so the VML is the one opening that day for that area.

Nights are going to a Senior TL - Closing structure, but the store should be in great shape by 5pm and zoning at night isn't really a focus anymore. They are pushing to zone as you push on the grocery model.
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Oh hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
The bulk of our business is done from 3pm till close. Zoning at night is paramount to us or the store looks 'rough' when we come in at 6 am.
 
Flow Warrior said:
Oh hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
The bulk of our business is done from 3pm till close. Zoning at night is paramount to us or the store looks 'rough' when we come in at 6 am.
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Like I just said, zoning at night is NOT paramount because we do not care if it impresses the flow team! We are wasting money making the store look perfect for our 6AM flow TMs... We want it to look best from 3pm-5pm when a majority of the business takes place, so the zoning process should take place in the mornings until around 1-2pm
 
Hold people accountable? There are stores that actually do that? My store just have ETLS that bitch about problem TLs. And TLs that bitch about problem TMs. But they need a body, any body for tomorrow because2 people quit/termed so we will just look the other way....again. Meanwhile the other team will carry the slack.
 
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