Archived Question on performancing out a long term team member

[signingminion]

The point of a CA should be to correct the action, not to fire the team member. Seems like you are setting them up to fail. Just a hunch; but I feel the problem is You.

The point of corrective action is to notify the tm they need to correct their actions. If they refuse there's no reason to accommodate them further...

 

[RedcardReba]

A lot if these suggestions are downright illegal. Harassment is a lawsuit in waiting. If the emploee has performance problems, document and proceed.

 

[tellmeaboutatime]

Treating team members like dirt so they quit is not leading.Neither is cutting their hours back to nothing. Both are wrong in my opinion. You should have universal expectations for the entire cashier crew. If they are not met you coach. It is important to make sure that you are being fair and consistent too. You can coach for attitude, and I do. If they are unable to take direction and be a team player coach. The conversation should include, maybe we are no longer a good fit for you? I use this often. It lets the team member know you are serious without being threatening.This circle jerk ETL group in my building right now are doing the "give them zero hours" routine now to some team members. I think its a chicken shit way to get rid of someone.

 

[Amanda Cantwell]

cashiers can just go on break whenever they feel like at your store?

Cashiers no, GSTMs yes.

 

[Black Sheep 214]

The point of a CA should be to correct the action, not to fire the team member. Seems like you are setting them up to fail. Just a hunch; but I feel the problem is You.

I agree. Asking if you can “get them” for insubordination seems to give the game away...

 

[Black Sheep 214]

Treating team members like dirt so they quit is not leading.Neither is cutting their hours back to nothing. Both are wrong in my opinion. You should have universal expectations for the entire cashier crew. If they are not met you coach. It is important to make sure that you are being fair and consistent too. You can coach for attitude, and I do. If they are unable to take direction and be a team player coach. The conversation should include, maybe we are no longer a good fit for you? I use this often. It lets the team member know you are serious without being threatening.This circle jerk ETL group in my building right now are doing the "give them zero hours" routine now to some team members. I think its a chicken shit way to get rid of someone.

100% right on all counts.

 

[Tessa120]

Treating team members like dirt so they quit is not leading.Neither is cutting their hours back to nothing. Both are wrong in my opinion. You should have universal expectations for the entire cashier crew. If they are not met you coach. It is important to make sure that you are being fair and consistent too. You can coach for attitude, and I do. If they are unable to take direction and be a team player coach. The conversation should include, maybe we are no longer a good fit for you? I use this often. It lets the team member know you are serious without being threatening.This circle jerk ETL group in my building right now are doing the "give them zero hours" routine now to some team members. I think its a chicken shit way to get rid of someone.

I can see the reduced hours being legitimate though. Generic speaking, if the person has a major attitude problem, customers are probably going to pick up on it and even be the focus of it. That's going to make the shopping experience unpleasant and they will come back only when they absolutely need to, rather than want to. Get a new customer instead of a long time customer, after a round of attitude they may just not come back ever. On the coworker side, nothing like a toxic person to drive morale into the subflooring. If a certain amount of documentation is needed to fire the employee, that is just that much more time the employee has to drive away customers and make coworkers miserable. So for business self preservation dropping the hours to absolute minimum when the decision to fire has been made and only the documentation is lacking means minimal impact on customers and on coworkers and tells the problem employee that they had better start looking for a new job immediately.

I know a store manager for a different retailer, he does that when he doesn't have time to spend the weeks of verbal warning, first write up, second write up, third write up, final write up, submission to corporate HR, and he has an attitude problem person causing issues in the here and now. Same reason he hires as many people under temporary seasonal instead of permanent as he can even when he intends a permanent hire, since the documentation to fire a seasonal is far less and problem children can be let go far faster and far more easily.

 

[Kartman]

I'm presently in hot water for not taking shit from a TL... the same TL who denied my 2nd legitimate 15" break last year. It's gonna be interesting when I go in on saturday.

 

[can't touch this]

lol what kind of crazy cashier gets salty when asked to do tasks OTHER THAN CASHIER? hell i would be begging to go push bullseye's playground or collect reshop

ikr, what a skrub

 

[RedcardReba]

I can see the reduced hours being legitimate though. Generic speaking, if the person has a major attitude problem, customers are probably going to pick up on it and even be the focus of it. That's going to make the shopping experience unpleasant and they will come back only when they absolutely need to, rather than want to. Get a new customer instead of a long time customer, after a round of attitude they may just not come back ever. On the coworker side, nothing like a toxic person to drive morale into the subflooring. If a certain amount of documentation is needed to fire the employee, that is just that much more time the employee has to drive away customers and make coworkers miserable. So for business self preservation dropping the hours to absolute minimum when the decision to fire has been made and only the documentation is lacking means minimal impact on customers and on coworkers and tells the problem employee that they had better start looking for a new job immediately.

I know a store manager for a different retailer, he does that when he doesn't have time to spend the weeks of verbal warning, first write up, second write up, third write up, final write up, submission to corporate HR, and he has an attitude problem person causing issues in the here and now. Same reason he hires as many people under temporary seasonal instead of permanent as he can even when he intends a permanent hire, since the documentation to fire a seasonal is far less and problem children can be let go far faster and far more easily.

In some states, reducing hours is the same as a layoff, making the employee eligible for UI pay.

 

[tellmeaboutatime]

I can see the reduced hours being legitimate though. Generic speaking, if the person has a major attitude problem, customers are probably going to pick up on it and even be the focus of it. That's going to make the shopping experience unpleasant and they will come back only when they absolutely need to, rather than want to. Get a new customer instead of a long time customer, after a round of attitude they may just not come back ever. On the coworker side, nothing like a toxic person to drive morale into the subflooring. If a certain amount of documentation is needed to fire the employee, that is just that much more time the employee has to drive away customers and make coworkers miserable. So for business self preservation dropping the hours to absolute minimum when the decision to fire has been made and only the documentation is lacking means minimal impact on customers and on coworkers and tells the problem employee that they had better start looking for a new job immediately.

I know a store manager for a different retailer, he does that when he doesn't have time to spend the weeks of verbal warning, first write up, second write up, third write up, final write up, submission to corporate HR, and he has an attitude problem person causing issues in the here and now. Same reason he hires as many people under temporary seasonal instead of permanent as he can even when he intends a permanent hire, since the documentation to fire a seasonal is far less and problem children can be let go far faster and far more easily.

If you avoid the situation and reduce hours, you have just prolonged their employment. If they are rude to a guest, you coach! If they are rude to coworkers you coach. When you coach, especially if it happens more than once, that coaching should be direct and that team member should walk away knowing their job is in jeopardy. I simply despise playing games with team members. I think they respect you more when you are upfront and let them know whats up. Just my opinion of cours

 

[spotlife]

I don’t know if you own your own scheduling, but I schedule my problem child’s when I’m there that way I can watch them, follow up, and hold them accountable. When I first started I schedule troublesome TMs around me so I didn’t have to deal with them. You need to have them by your side that way they either get retraining or you have conversations every day until they shape up or it becomes a CCA. I schedule my A players on my day off since I don’t have to worry about them and feel comfortable the work will get done.

 

[allnew2]

Currently working on performancing out a veteran cashier as they’re absolutely terrible (can’t get into too much details) and they really just no longer bring anything valuable to the front end.

They’re whiny, complain a lot, and have even yelled at me. Could I get them for insubordination?
What did he yelled at you for? And yes you can write him/her for insubordination that’s a automatic termination.
They’re currently on a CCA (which I placed them on about a month ago with complete support from HR) and I am working on escalating it to a final. How long do I have to wait before doing this?

Their hours were also cut to 4 per week until they complained to my GE (both are buddy buddy).

Any tips on ways to effectively performance manage someone out?

Thanks!

 

[Kompa]

Not buying it. Long time cashiers don't exist if they they are that bad, it's the easiest job to fill


my guess is the tm is probably doesnt give a fuck anymore because they have probably been skated over with raises and they are probably being asked to do shit out of their paygrade

 

[commiecorvus]

Just curious, have you asked what has got them so salty?
Seeking to understand works both ways.
If shit has gone terribly wrong in their life or they have medical issues they can't address properly because of the crap insurance you might need to adjust your approach.
Or if @Kompa points out she is upset about being frozen in pay and new cashiers making almost as much as she does, you have to address this as well.
People are complicated and sometimes you need to make an effort to figure out what the issue is before you dump them in the scrapheap.

 

[Tessa120]

Just curious, have you asked what has got them so salty?
Seeking to understand works both ways.
If shit has gone terribly wrong in their life or they have medical issues they can't address properly because of the crap insurance you might need to adjust your approach

Things going badly in life, you have a good point. Dealing with a spouse's infidelity or a sick child or an all out family war could really cause some bitchy behavior, everyone has a breaking point and there's just no mental resources left to deal with other people's inconsiderate behavior.

Medical, I doubt it. Everyone's heard of the ADA and the cashier would have already been talking with HR about needed accommodations along with a reevaluation from time to time about whether the accommodations being tried are working.

 

[Black Sheep 214]

Seems odd that a TM could be both a veteran cashier, “buddy buddy “ with the GE, and still be so irredeemable. The fact that she’s lasted long enough to become a veteran says that she must be doing something right, and GEs don’t generally become buddy buddy with problem TMs. How is she with guests, other TMs, and other management? Is she good with RedCards? How about attendance and punctuality? Do the other cashiers enjoy working with her or do they hate seeing her name on the schedule? I understand that you can’t be too specific, but it would be nice to know what issue the cashier is on CCA for. If the only issues are that she’s whiny, complains and yelled at you, you should find out why. Has she always been like this or is it something new? Why does she feel picked on? Basically, does she have problems with everyone or only with you? If it’s only with you, have a conversation with her and seek to understand her point of view. Help her settle her issues and her behavior problems will disappear. You will grow in leadership and you may save Target a good cashier.