Archived Termination question

[theflowspot]

I worked at my store for a year and a half before going on a LOA to do an internship for school . I was hired back to my same store after my internship ended, except I had interviewed under a different department. On my second interview day when I showed up, the TL doing my interview told me he wasn't interviewing me and to wait for HR. HR pulled me into the office and told me my old Flow ETL wanted me back so they changed me from an A+A TM back to Flow. The one issue I had that I told them was I could not start work until 8am due to the fact I take a bus to work. My ETL knew even from the past that I took a bus and told me he informed the new TL and that it wouldn't be a problem. Well, cue problem when I'm scheduled at 7:30am and the bus doesn't arrive until 7:30 which equates to me being late. I say something again to the ETL, he tells me not to worry and if I'm late a few minutes it isn't going to be a big deal. Well guess what..it is.

Everything is fine for a month and then I have my first review. Nothing is mentioned at all about my attendance, she tells me I need to work more efficiently. Cue to a week later, she pulls me into the office again. This time she asks me about my attendance and I explain to her I take a bus to work and that the ETL knows my situation since he was my same ETL from before and I again reinstated I could change my time to 8am if it was going to be a problem. Then she told me while she had been on vacation the week prior, she had other team members "watching" me who reported back to her that I wasn't checking end caps and that I was slowing the team down and dragging everyone behind. I feel if this was the case I wouldn't of been hired back under Flow..but okay. Sure. If you want to spy on me to make yourself feel better, go for it. The way I see it is if you have a small Flow team and a big truck and only a 4 hour window to push freight with 5 TM's, I know I'm not the reason truck is not getting done 100%. During this conversation there also was NO paperwork, so if this was a coaching there was nothing I signed or any kind of document present. After this interaction I went and spoke to my ETL on what I should do, he told me to change my availability to 8am and we'd figure it out from there, so I did just that. Well, cue me getting pulled into the office again this morning where I get threatened with termination because I called out sick two days last week with tonsilitis (doctor's note provided.) She told me that this was a second coaching due to my attendance and if I received one more I would be terminated- again, no documents, no forms to sign. She also told me that my availability change was denied because of my 90 day probation, so that if I had to get to work an hour before unload at 6:30am like another co-worker does who sits outside the building, then I would have to do just that otherwise she couldn't me.

Listen, I know showing up to work 5 minutes late isn't good. I also know I am not the only one showing up late to clock in when we have to wait for someone to answer the door and let us in. However, I stressed this from the beginning because I didn't want it to be a problem and it has become a problem. I never had any coachings before this and suddenly I'm on the last one before I'm fired, yet there is no documentation being presented to be signed. My bf who I met working on flow who quit when I left thinks this is a hotline matter, especially over calling out since I had a note. I also don't have a reliable HR person to go to, as my whole store is a joke and I had issues with HR meddling into my personal life in the past so I don't trust them. I plan on leaving soon, but I just don't like this new TL who is a former STBX barista acting shady with the new TM's who will come after me and may put up with the same targeting and "being watched."

 

[Planosss]

So, I feel you. Its terrible.
(Now i should stop here ) but, @commiecorvus , is it possible to dig through the threads, and find one, just one ,about “terminations” , in which the OP admits to messing up and the termination being just?
Please do that so I can just STFU.
Thank you.

 

[theflowspot]

So, I feel you. Its terrible.
(Now i should stop here ) but, @commiecorvus , is it possible to dig through the threads, and find one, just one ,about “terminations” , in which the OP admits to messing up and the termination being just?
Please do that so I can just STFU.
Thank you.

How much more honest do I need to be? I get to work late. I'm not in denial over that. My gripe is some of the unprofessional aspects, such as depending on other coworkers opinions behind my back to ensure the quality of my job. THAT is the problem. I don't really give a fuck at this point, but when it boils down to personal shit versus professional THAT is wrong.

 

[Planosss]

How much more honest do I need to be? I get to work late. I'm not in denial over that. My gripe is some if the unprofessional aspects, such as depending on other coworkers behind my back to ensure of the wuslity of my job. THAT I'd the problem. I don't really give a fuck at this point, but when it boils down to personal shit versus professional THAT is wrong.

Ok, I would like to ask you some follow up questions to understand the situation better.
1) have you been termed already?
2) have signed anything i.e a Corrective Action?
3) how many times in total have you been coached? How many times for attendance, how many times for performance?
4) were you getting schedule at 7:30 and punching in at 8?
5) how many late punches did you have? How many call outs?
6) Are you proactively looking for another job right now?
7) what are your long term goals with target?

 

[theissueoftissue]

TL;DR, if you plan on leaving soon what difference does anything make?

 

[commiecorvus]

You're not going to see much in the way of posts where people say they were fired for just cause because this is a place people come to vent.
Are all of their complaints legit, perhaps not but they have the right to speak and if you need to make your own point in response, just do it without being a dick.

In response to the OP, it sounds like they didn't like that you couldn't keep the schedule and even though you were hired with the understanding of your transportation issues, it was decided to performance you out.
SOP for certain kinds of stores unfortunately.
You probably should have gone to HR right at the beginning and established the exact situation.
It wouldn't have stopped them if they were determined but it would have given you a cause for complaint.
Now they have built a nice wall of paperwork you can't get past.

 

[theissueoftissue]

You're not going to see much in the way of posts where people say they were fired for just cause because this is a place people come to vent.
Are all of their complaints legit, perhaps not but they have the right to speak and if you need to make your own point in response, just do it without being a dick.

In response to the OP, it sounds like they didn't like that you couldn't keep the schedule and even though you were hired with the understanding of your transportation issues, it was decided to performance you out.
SOP for certain kinds of stores unfortunately.
You probably should have gone to HR right at the beginning and established the exact situation.
It wouldn't have stopped them if they were determined but it would have given you a cause for complaint.
Now they have built a nice wall of paperwork you can't get past.

Have you guys tossed around the idea of an “I Was Fired” section for posts like this?

 

[BoxCutter]

OP: What was your availability on eHR before you went on LOA? Did you change it to a workable start time before you where brought back? Your availability should have been ironed out, agreed upon, and in the system before your first day back.

 

[HRZone]

After this interaction I went and spoke to my ETL on what I should do, he told me to change my availability to 8am and we'd figure it out from there,

So here is an example of a story not adding up.

Yes you talked to your ETL but you changed your availability in your 90 days which means you told your store you could be there by 730am. That's kinda dishonest on your part.

I dont have a whole lot of sympathy because I just hired a softlines tm who said I can close but is now telling me he needs to leave by 930 even though we close at 11.

During this conversation there also was NO paperwork, so if this was a coaching there was nothing I signed or any kind of document present.

You should be thankful. You are not allowed to give a CA in 90 days. It's an automatic termination

My bf who I met working on flow who quit when I left thinks this is a hotline matter, especially over calling out since I had a note

While a doctors note is a courtesy there is no policy that says you cannot be coached because you brought a doctors note. I accept doctors notes but if a tm has crappy attendance aside from the doctors note you can bet they are still getting coached

 

[HRZone]

Fwiw: If you were to call the hotline your etl hr would send the hotline folks your attendance and the fact you're in your 90 days. And close the case.

Your store isn't abusing you. Your etl made some promises he can't keep and you gave your store the availability you can't abide by. Plenty of fault to go around here

 

[theflowspot]

OP: What was your availability on Workbench before you went on LOA? Did you change it to a workable start time before you where brought back? Your availability should have been ironed out, agreed upon, and in the system before your first day back.

My availability was the exact same before I went on LOA for a year. My previous TL didn't have an issue, and if he did it would've changed.

When I came back I interviewed with the intention of working Apparel and Accessories to have a broader availability since most of those TM's work 8am. However my former Flow ETL argued with the Softlines ETL and begged for me back, so they hired me under Flow for the 7:30 start time, which made me locked into that agreement. I knew it would be a problem which is why when I saw him in person about three days later I asked him what I should do and he told me not to worry he had spoken to the new Log TL. I was locked in at a 7:30 start so when he informed me he would approve it for 8 after the first "coaching", it was apparently denied because of my probation according to my TL.

 

[theflowspot]

So here is an example of a story not adding up.

Yes you talked to your ETL but you changed your availability in your 90 days which means you told your store you could be there by 730am. That's kinda dishonest on your part.

I dont have a whole lot of sympathy because I just hired a softlines tm who said I can close but is now telling me he needs to leave by 930 even though we close at 11.



You should be thankful. You are not allowed to give a CA in 90 days. It's an automatic termination



While a doctors note is a courtesy there is no policy that says you cannot be coached because you brought a doctors note. I accept doctors notes but if a tm has crappy attendance aside from the doctors note you can bet they are still getting coached

I think that's ridiculous. I worked for Disney and when it boils down to attendance it is a point system. If you are sick and call out three days you can combine those three days into one point with a note. So essentially scree me if I ever continue working for Target and get in a car accident in my first 90 days because notes don't matter

 

[theflowspot]

Fwiw: If you were to call the hotline your etl hr would send the hotline folks your attendance and the fact you're in your 90 days. And close the case.

Your store isn't abusing you. Your etl made some promises he can't keep and you gave your store the availability you can't abide by. Plenty of fault to go around here

Exactly, I know I'm at fault. The trying to do the right thing and going to the right people for guidance on what to do has made me now trapped in a web, that's what is making this situation frustrating. I just want a yes or no before I agree to something, instead I got a sure no problem which turned into a problem. The best choice is just to quit while I'm ahead.

 

[Planosss]

Great vent, great responses! ..... and another bites the dust!

 

[theflowspot]

Great vent, great responses! ..... and another bites the dust!

It's not that serious, chill.

 

[BREAKITOUT]

No your best option is to have a very honest talk with either your ETL or ETL HR if you'd like to continue. How close are you to finishing your 90 days? Your performance is going to have to be on point for the remainder but use this time to make some sacrifices. Get there early, albeit so you can be on time. So you can keep a job. Then submit a change after your 90 days is up for availability. Also, long term, work on getting cross trained, a&a could be harder since it's specialty but maybe if you give good guest service and can stand out, cashiering? Good luck.

 

[theflowspot]

No your best option is to have a very honest talk with either your ETL or ETL HR if you'd like to continue. How close are you to finishing your 90 days? Your performance is going to have to be on point for the remainder but use this time to make some sacrifices. Get there early, albeit so you can be on time. So you can keep a job. Then submit a change after your 90 days is up for availability. Also, long term, work on getting cross trained, a&a could be harder since it's specialty but maybe if you give good guest service and can stand out, cashiering? Good luck.

I'm going to try to do this on Thursday since that is when my ETL is there or on Saturday because the ETL runs truck and the TL is off. A&A wouldn't phase me, my store is ultra low-volume and I worked for a year in WDW so everyday was like a 40k person Black Friday with exceptional guest service expected as well as demands, so I could even handle the demands of GSA. I returned 1/16, so I believe I have about 6 weeks left of my probationary period. I have done flex, backroom, market, hardlines and softlines but our hours are running 12 a week so they won't schedule Flow outside of that right now unless someone wuits and then we get the leftovers.

 

[BREAKITOUT]

It's the internet so I don't think constructive criticism can hurt that much. Humble yourself when you go to your ETL with honesty? It'll help if you come from a good place rather than well from a place where you can come off as a know it all. @HRZone what do you think?

 

[Fluttervale]

I would sit down with the ETLHR and have a discussion about these issues. They knew your availability when they hired you and may be able to move you to A&A.

 

[HRZone]

It's the internet so I don't think constructive criticism can hurt that much. Humble yourself when you go to your ETL with honesty? It'll help if you come from a good place rather than well from a place where you can come off as a know it all. @HRZone what do you think?

Yeah I think the problem here is the leaders in her store are not communicating to one another. Heres where a tm can help themselves by taking your advice and trying to get on the same page with HR.

If HR knows and understands this team members dilemma they can refuse to rubber stamp this termination and become an advocate for the TM.

 

[HRZone]

Exactly, I know I'm at fault. The trying to do the right thing and going to the right people for guidance on what to do has made me now trapped in a web, that's what is making this situation frustrating. I just want a yes or no before I agree to something, instead I got a sure no problem which turned into a problem. The best choice is just to quit while I'm ahead.

Your ETL is this team leads boss. If they are truly okay with this they can approve an availability change on their own without the team leads permission.

What did your etl say when you told them you're being constantly coached by this TL?

 

[BREAKITOUT]

go HRZone! Woohoo. You got some great advice from an HR standpoint from her! ball's in your park to use it now!

 

[theflowspot]

What did your etl say when you told them you're being constantly coached by this TL?

He was not there today when I was coached again, but when I asked him what to do after the first coaching he told me to change my availability and he would approve it and we would work it out from there. When I went to fix a mispunch last week before getting sick with tonsilitis I noticed it had been denied and the TL said today it was because it was against policy to change my availability, so I have not been able to personally ask him about that yet.

 

[BREAKITOUT]

I feel like his coaching doc, the 1st one, is going to be inaccurate then which could maybe help your case.... Just a speculation though. I don't know too much about HR's process....

 

[soyaxo]

He was not there today when I was coached again, but when I asked him what to do after the first coaching he told me to change my availability and he would approve it and we would work it out from there. When I went to fix a mispunch last week before getting sick with tonsilitis I noticed it had been denied and the TL said today it was because it was against policy to change my availability, so I have not been able to personally ask him about that yet.

It is definitely not against policy to change your availability. They may prefer you have a good good reason, but... ASANTS?