Uncomfortable Huddles

Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
21
#26
Alright it's unfortunate you had such a terrible experience. We'll just agree to disagree.
It’s not “my experience.”

It’s systemic and extremely widespread.

Again, given that we’ve already established the STL’s maturity level in the OP, chances are really strong he’s not going to be receptive to feedback in an adult like, introspective manner.

The ETL HR will 100% tell the STL every single thing you tell them.

I’m sure there are good guy STLs and or ETL HRs out there... I’ve met those too... but they’re in the extreme minority.
 

seasonaldude

Waiting for your kid to get out of my way in toys
Joined
Oct 3, 2018
Messages
299
#27
Wayyy out of proportion. If I were 16, I'd probably share your diatribe. But at some point, most of us realize life is filled with nuance and not everything that hurts our feelings is worth a lawsuit.

This reminds me of the time I was like 10 and Chuck E Cheese was giving out tokens for kids that had all As on their report cards. Well being the B student I was, the kid behind the counter joked with his female co-worker and said something like 'you gotta work on your grades.' I swore up and down I was going to sue them. But of course, I was only 10.
If you had a law degree, you'd share my diatribe. Civil Rights Act stuff is not something to be fucked around with in the workplace. Employees cannot be made to sing religious music. Period. End of fucking story. They should not even be asked.

But, I get it. You are a Target ETL. I've seen the backroom. Federal workplace regulations aren't something that you take seriously until you get a call from the appropriate agency that will absolutely not compare federal laws and regulations that they enforce to their childhood experiences at shitty pizza places.
 

GoodyNN

Plays with strings; Bacon Number of 2
Joined
Sep 27, 2017
Messages
1,241
#28
I'm concerned that there seems to be a new "rule" which was not communicated to all TMs at the store regarding reporting on your area, and that OP was made to be a focus of additional scrutiny for not following a rule which s/he was not privy to.

STL may have meant the singing and trivia parts as "in good fun", but he clearly has no situational awareness to recognize that it was not received in that way. I don't know that it's actionable, though.

Personally, I would go privately to STL and express my displeasure at the situation, but I don't know if that's the correct response.
 

commiecorvus

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#30
I'm going to start with the fact that I am Jewish so I have a very big dog in this fight.
No boss is going to tell me to sing fucking Christmas carols without the shit hitting the fan.
So no, the the OP is not over reacting, not by a long fucking shot.
I don't care if the STL thought it was all in good fun, it was religious bigotry and illegal.
HR is not your friend but it is there to protect the company, which means they will want to know about this before a lawyer or some journalist does.
If they don't get the asshole to stop then it's Hotline time but they are going to check to see if anything was done at the store level first
If it was and things weren't fixed there's going to be a serious visit from above.
This kind of behavior is disgusting.
 
Joined
May 22, 2014
Messages
182
#31
If you had a law degree, you'd share my diatribe. Civil Rights Act stuff is not something to be fucked around with in the workplace. Employees cannot be made to sing religious music. Period. End of fucking story. They should not even be asked.

But, I get it. You are a Target ETL. I've seen the backroom. Federal workplace regulations aren't something that you take seriously until you get a call from the appropriate agency that will absolutely not compare federal laws and regulations that they enforce to their childhood experiences at shitty pizza places.
You know what they say about assumptions.
 

can't touch this

Store Meme Leader
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Nov 20, 2017
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#33
I feel like this STL’s biggest fuck up is his general incompetence. See: “putting people on the spot when he knows they won’t have the right answer”, and “this was going on while the store was busy and guests were mashing call buttons right and left.” He’s obviously bad at his job, and doesn’t know how to lead.

That said, lmao forever at people melting down over supposed “religious bigotry.” If I as an atheist can manage to make it through Christmas and Hannukah and Easter without feeling personally attacked then y’all can too. I’m guessing you cringe and squirm when a cheerful stranger says “Merry Christmas”? 🙄
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2016
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1,372
#36
With all due respect, since you asked, I think you're overreacting. If you feel like he went too far, express that to him in private.
Overreacting for being bullied in front of other co-workers? There is no way I would want a one-on-one with him if he is willing to do this in public? What would guests think if they walked by this huddle? My first step would be HR and then go from there.
 

seasonaldude

Waiting for your kid to get out of my way in toys
Joined
Oct 3, 2018
Messages
299
#39
I feel like this STL’s biggest fuck up is his general incompetence. See: “putting people on the spot when he knows they won’t have the right answer”, and “this was going on while the store was busy and guests were mashing call buttons right and left.” He’s obviously bad at his job, and doesn’t know how to lead.

That said, lmao forever at people melting down over supposed “religious bigotry.” If I as an atheist can manage to make it through Christmas and Hannukah and Easter without feeling personally attacked then y’all can too. I’m guessing you cringe and squirm when a cheerful stranger says “Merry Christmas”? 🙄
The first person to type "religious bigotry" in this thread was you... I'm just pointing out the actual law and the stunning incompetence of management not to know a basic law of employment that has been in effect since 1964. I don't cringe when someone says "Merry Christmas." I say it myself. I do cringe when management makes any attempt to force employees to engage in religious activity. That's illegal. Go ahead and call corporate's lawyers. See what they say about ordering TMs to sing Christmas carols. I guarantee you that it will be a "Fucking hell no to the motherfucking no. And two motherfucking nos on days ending with 'day.'"
 
Joined
Sep 25, 2017
Messages
364
#40
This is absolutely unacceptable and I don't think you're over-reacting. You told us about one incident, but it sounds like there are many more.
Document, document, document. Write down specifics, including dates, names of other TMs humiliated (more for your reference and you should keep that info to yourself), and details of what happened. If there's a pattern - one gender or ethnic or religious group picked on more, TMs from a certain work center, the type of "performance" required - note that especially. @seasonaldude is correct that this incident could very well be viewed as religious discrimination, and religion is a protected class under the Civil Rights Act.
I think it's ASANTS about HR being a good resource. I'm perhaps fortunate in that I think my store's HR person is actually helpful. Have you spoken to your TL about this? That would be my first option, but that might depend on their relationship with your STL.
I would not speak to your STL about this without a witness. He sounds incredibly immature and I fear that he would not react well. Maybe your TL or another long-term TM who's also witnessed, although perhaps not been a victim, of his behavior. That way, you're not "ganging up on him," but you need to take some CYA steps with this guy. What a jerk.
 

commiecorvus

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#42
That said, lmao forever at people melting down over supposed “religious bigotry.” If I as an atheist can manage to make it through Christmas and Hannukah and Easter without feeling personally attacked then y’all can too. I’m guessing you cringe and squirm when a cheerful stranger says “Merry Christmas”? 🙄
I say Happy Holidays and don't give a damn if someone wants to say Merry Christmas.
Christmas has become a secular holiday to many but forcing it on another person is bigotry by definition.
You may be atheist but I suspect you aren't antitheist.
They are a tad bit more hostle to the Christian based holidays.
 

can't touch this

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#43
I say Happy Holidays and don't give a damn if someone wants to say Merry Christmas.
Christmas has become a secular holiday to many but forcing it on another person is bigotry by definition.
You may be atheist but I suspect you aren't antitheist.
They are a tad bit more hostle to the Christian based holidays.
I was about to say, Christmas has become mostly secularized anyway. A generic day of “buy stuff in the spirit of capitalism” if you will. Which makes the anti-religious argument seem even more petty.

No I’m not antitheist, because I’m an adult who understands the way the human mind works. Some people find existential belief in a higher power comforting, and if it helps them get through life then so be it. I’m not going to get bent out of shape if people believe in invisible sky daddies. If rationalists are correct and there’s no higher power and life is meaningless, then worshipping a non-existent god is just as valid as anything else you decide to do with your meaningless life.

I’ve found that most anti-theists have a really specific beef with Christianity in particular, while having far less spite for other religions. That’s blatant bigotry right there.
 
Joined
Jul 24, 2018
Messages
118
#44
Once a new manager asked my staff to choose which reindeer they were. He meant this to be an icebreaker. Alas, my staff was nearly all Jewish. Finally, one young woman said, "Isnt there one with a red nose?"

Lol...now, THAT was a booboo, but his lack of awareness was punishment enough.

Let it go. He won't try that one again
 

commiecorvus

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#46
The first person to type "religious bigotry" in this thread was you...
The rest of your post was dead on but I was the one who called out the bigotry.
This is a case much like when white people tell black people that something wasn't racist.
Let's not tell the people who have been discriminated against for thousands of years what religious bigotry looks like please.

Edited: Because my phone is an idiot and I meant dead on, like correct. Yes, my phone is the problem not the idiot who didn't proof read.
 

can't touch this

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#47
The rest of the post was dead but I was the one who called out the bigotry.
This is a case much like when white people tell black people that something wasn't racist.
Let's not tell the people who have been discriminated against for thousands of years what religious bigotry looks like please.
White people spent over a thousand years killing each other over minor religious differences (see: Europe) so I’d say it’s a wash
 
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