Service & Engagement Why are we being trained to steal customers return value?

D

DKP808

Joined
May 25, 2020
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For some reason guest services is being trained to down price items that were purchased with manufacturer coupons resulting in the customer not receiving they're full entitled return value the policy states only store coupons will be subtracted from the return, manufacturer coupons do not get subjected. manufacturer coupons go back to the guest in the form of a Target gift card which automatically happens but for some reason we are being told to subtract any manufacturer coupons and being told to direct the customer back to the store they purchase items from. This is wrong, this is fraudulent & illegal. why are we being taught this? And why are we following this made up rule we need to be reporting our team leads to HR for telling us to do our job wrong putting Target at risk of class action lawsuits
 
They shouldn't be telling you to do that. Our coupon policy allows us to deny returns if a guest is abusing manufacturer coupons. What you need to do is allow the sale as it normally should go, and then deny the return. Sure, they'll probably just go to another store and try it, but then that store can do the same thing if they see the same guest do it more than once or twice.

Source: Target.com
"We have the right to refuse, or limit the use of any coupon and/or the subsequent return for any reason, including if guests' reoccurring behavior becomes disruptive or the items are deemed not to be for the purpose of using or gifting."
 
DKP808 said:
This is wrong, this is fraudulent & illegal.
Click to expand...
it is none of those things. Coupons have printed on them that they have NO cash value (or at most, 1/100s of a cent). because of this, they are NOT payment, they are discounts on an item. Giving a guest back the value would be giving them more than they paid. ripe for abuse.

EX: I buy Allegra (it's always allergy medicine) for $20. I used $8 off coupon (it's always high value coupons, no one is scamming us for 50 cents). I hand cashier $12. I go to guest service, return, and get $20 back. I essentially "sold" that coupon for $8, even though it has no cash value.

Different stores handle it different mostly depending on how high the fraud is at the store. My store is an "adjust down" store. 99% of the time the scammers see us start to do that and they take it and leave (presumably to another target). I think in my three years only 1 person has let me do it.

IMO denying it is worse. We're offering the scammer what they paid. If they don't want that, they don't have to do it. They wouldn't be losing money by doing it, just not making money. Flat out denying them doesn't give them that option.

To be completely clear-- I am not talking about granny who used a 50 cent coupon on her dish soap and the cap broke and she wants a new one. I'm talking about scammers who buy more Zyrtec than a whole family could use in 5 years and have $10 coupons on all of them
 
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Amanda Cantwell said:
it is none of those things. Coupons have printed on them that they have NO cash value (or at most, 1/100s of a cent). because of this, they are NOT payment, they are discounts on an item. Giving a guest back the value would be giving them more than they paid. ripe for abuse.

EX: I buy Allegra (it's always allergy medicine) for $20. I used $8 off coupon (it's always high value coupons, no one is scamming us for 50 cents). I hand cashier $12. I go to guest service, return, and get $20 back. I essentially "sold" that coupon for $8, even though it has no cash value.

Different stores handle it different mostly depending on how high the fraud is at the store. My store is an "adjust down" store. 99% of the time the scammers see us start to do that and they take it and leave (presumably to another target). I think in my three years only 1 person has let me do it.

IMO denying it is worse. We're offering the scammer what they paid. If they don't want that, they don't have to do it. They wouldn't be losing money by doing it, just not making money. Flat out denying them doesn't give them that option.

To be completely clear-- I am not talking about granny who used a 50 cent coupon on her dish soap and the cap broke and she wants a new one. I'm talking about scammers who buy more Zyrtec than a whole family could use in 5 years and have $10 coupons on all of them
Click to expand...
100% agree.
 
Curious... Since that would be a manufacturer's coupon and sent in for redemption, isn't Target now scamming the manufacturer for the amount of the coupon, or is that coupon removed from those sent for redemption?(I will say that I have absolutely NO idea how redemption of coupons works.)
 
Rarejem said:
Curious... Since that would be a manufacturer's coupon and sent in for redemption, isn't Target now scamming the manufacturer for the amount of the coupon, or is that coupon removed from those sent for redemption?(I will say that I have absolutely NO idea how redemption of coupons works.)
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Target apparently gets paid by the weight for coupons so not really.

I was always told that target has to match up the purchases to the coupons but idk if that’s the case
 
and don't forget many of the high value coupons are for medicines that Target has to special handling dispose of (not resell). So that person who bought 2 Allegras $20 using $8 coupons and then returns them makes $16 and Target is out of $40 of product and may or may not get the $16 coupon value. If it were one person doing that once your store wouldn't have that policy. It is likely that you have dozens of people doing it on a regular basis and yes it would discourage scammers from doing it.

If a person has 1 under $4 coupon return, even if your store policy was to not, I would probably return the value under the make it right. If someone comes in returning a bag full of vitamins, medicine and hair dye products (items regularly available with coupon), I would follow the stores policy even if different from Target policy.
 
Why would anyone think they could get a manufacturer's coupon amount back if they aren't a scammer? If you have a coupon for say, Progresso soup, and you decide you don't want the soup, then you don't get to use the coupon. What are they going to say, that they don't want soup now but they may want some later?
 
DKP808 said:
This is wrong, this is fraudulent & illegal. why are we being taught this?
Click to expand...
As everyone is saying, follow the math. $X is cost of item, $Y is coupon, $Z is what customer actually paid. [X-Y=Z] It is not financially right to give a guest $X back if they paid only $Z and were never charged for $Y in the first place.

The fraud would be to facilitate guests taking (basically stealing) extra money by giving them the amount of $Y that they never paid. If someone gives you $6 for a discounted item but then you can't get it, would it be right if they took $10 back out of your wallet because the full price of the item is $10, not $6? Or would you insist that they get back what they paid and not take extra from you?

And why are you way overexaggerated in your response? Are you one of those people trying to get $X for your coupon purchase?
 
Amanda Cantwell said:
it is none of those things. Coupons have printed on them that they have NO cash value (or at most, 1/100s of a cent). because of this, they are NOT payment, they are discounts on an item. Giving a guest back the value would be giving them more than they paid. ripe for abuse.

EX: I buy Allegra (it's always allergy medicine) for $20. I used $8 off coupon (it's always high value coupons, no one is scamming us for 50 cents). I hand cashier $12. I go to guest service, return, and get $20 back. I essentially "sold" that coupon for $8, even though it has no cash value.

Different stores handle it different mostly depending on how high the fraud is at the store. My store is an "adjust down" store. 99% of the time the scammers see us start to do that and they take it and leave (presumably to another target). I think in my three years only 1 person has let me do it.

IMO denying it is worse. We're offering the scammer what they paid. If they don't want that, they don't have to do it. They wouldn't be losing money by doing it, just not making money. Flat out denying them doesn't give them that option.

To be completely clear-- I am not talking about granny who used a 50 cent coupon on her dish soap and the cap broke and she wants a new one. I'm talking about scammers who buy more Zyrtec than a whole family could use in 5 years and have $10 coupons on all of them
Click to expand...

Manufacturer coupons are payments not discounts. They apply after tax and the store is actually reimbursed for them.
No cash value doesn't mean what you think it means, apparently.
If someone buys a $20 item with a $5 manufacturer coupon target gets $15 immediately and $5 later via reimbursement. If someone then returns said item and you only give $15 back Target is keeping that $5 when it was a part of the customer's payment. So the store gets the product back and $5? no.
You absolutely must return the value of manufacturer coupons if you process the return - whether as a target gift card or the same method as original tender as per policy and POS dictatation.
If you think its return/coupon fraud, deny the return - that's your only real option to "stick it to them."
 
Reread your logic. The person pays $15 and Target gets $5 later from the manufacturer. Therefore the person doesn't get back $20, since $5 is a transaction between Target and the manufacturer. The $5 would be refunded directly to the manufacturer, since it was the manufacturer that paid that portion. Assuming it gets that far, instead of whoever processes the coupons for Target shows no matching receipt (since it was returned) and the $5 is not given in the first place.
 
Tessa120 said:
Reread your logic. The person pays $15 and Target gets $5 later from the manufacturer. Therefore the person doesn't get back $20, since $5 is a transaction between Target and the manufacturer. The $5 would be refunded directly to the manufacturer, since it was the manufacturer that paid that portion. Assuming it gets that far, instead of whoever processes the coupons for Target shows no matching receipt (since it was returned) and the $5 is not given in the first place.
Click to expand...
Exactly.

The manufacturer is giving a discount to the consumer and making a promise to the store to pay them back the face value of the coupon if they accept it. Guest uses it and gets the money off, Target accepts it and gets reimbursed by the manaufacturer. If the guest then chooses to return the item, they get back what they paid. They don't get to keep the money if they don't want the item.
 
Tessa120 said:
Reread your logic. The person pays $15 and Target gets $5 later from the manufacturer. Therefore the person doesn't get back $20, since $5 is a transaction between Target and the manufacturer. The $5 would be refunded directly to the manufacturer, since it was the manufacturer that paid that portion. Assuming it gets that far, instead of whoever processes the coupons for Target shows no matching receipt (since it was returned) and the $5 is not given in the first place.
Click to expand...

@ISMike is correct. This is factually incorrect. The reason why the MFR coupon value is returned as a gift-card is because of the lead time and cost overhead required in MFR reimbursement. The coupon reimbursements to Target is a months long process, and it would be incredibly cumbersome to manage returns of couponed products and track reimbursements in that manner. It also opens Target up to legal action or termination of coupon partnerships if there is a big miss there.

When returning the amount as a giftcard, Target is essentially looking at it as a wash. They receive 5 dollars from the MFR, you get a 5 dollar GC. How that 5 dollars is spent to them is irrelevant, it's still 5 dollars of currency for 5 dollars worth of product. It requires no external intervention and almost no overhead from Target. It's makes more financial sense to do it this way.

EDIT:

This is also a reason why product and coupon limits are a thing. You could in theory buy 15 boxes of Zytrec with 15 10 dollar off MFR coupons, return them and get 150 dollars of Target GCs, then use the GCs to purchase other goods. In the strictest sense, you're not stealing from Target, you're stealing from the MFR, which is why they put limits on the quantities. By bypassing those limits, Target is acting as a party to fraud.
 
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ISMike said:
Manufacturer coupons are payments not discounts. They apply after tax and the store is actually reimbursed for them.
No cash value doesn't mean what you think it means, apparently.
If someone buys a $20 item with a $5 manufacturer coupon target gets $15 immediately and $5 later via reimbursement. If someone then returns said item and you only give $15 back Target is keeping that $5 when it was a part of the customer's payment. So the store gets the product back and $5? no.
You absolutely must return the value of manufacturer coupons if you process the return - whether as a target gift card or the same method as original tender as per policy and POS dictatation.
If you think its return/coupon fraud, deny the return - that's your only real option to "stick it to them."
Click to expand...
If return was done same day you could give the guest back the. Coupons, and only refund amount paid.
 
happygoth said:
Exactly.

The manufacturer is giving a discount to the consumer and making a promise to the store to pay them back the face value of the coupon if they accept it. Guest uses it and gets the money off, Target accepts it and gets reimbursed by the manaufacturer. If the guest then chooses to return the item, they get back what they paid. They don't get to keep the money if they don't want the item.
Click to expand...
This. The value of th coupon is between target and the manufacturer. If you want to say we're "scamming" Procter & gamble, you could make that argument, though I think you'd still be wrong based on how we're being reimbursed. But there is no logical way we are "scamming" the guests by giving them back the amount of money they gave us plus 1/100th of a cent (which would round down)
 
60SecondsRemaining said:
Can you provide proof of that? Because Target explicitly states you will recieve the mfr coupon amount as a giftcard.
Click to expand...

They give the guest the gift card and get a contracted rate from the manufacturer in either chargebacks or credits, depending on the accounting system of the manufacturer.

I don't have proof, it's just how it's shown on the P&Ls.
 
Fluttervale said:
They give the guest the gift card and get a contracted rate from the manufacturer in either chargebacks or credits, depending on the accounting system of the manufacturer.

I don't have proof, it's just how it's shown on the P&Ls.
Click to expand...

Yes - this is exactly what I said. Were just saying it different ways.
 
Amanda Cantwell said:
This. The value of th coupon is between target and the manufacturer. If you want to say we're "scamming" Procter & gamble, you could make that argument, though I think you'd still be wrong based on how we're being reimbursed. But there is no logical way we are "scamming" the guests by giving them back the amount of money they gave us plus 1/100th of a cent (which would round down)
Click to expand...

Giving the guest the paid amount plus the coupon amount as a gift card is the correct option based on the way the system functions.

There is no way to "scam" the system. Each instance is an exception where someone accepts multiple mfr coupons over the established limit, or a return is overridden as something other than a gift card.

The OP is correct that what theyre doing is wrong. But it isn't fraudulent in that sense
 
This thread is giving me a headache just remembering the shady couponers I used to deal with at the front.

Working in reverse logistics it can be disheartening seeing the waste from this. I will say it has gotten better with OTC product, but it's baby formula that we are having trouble with now. I think this past month I've had to process over twenty containers of formula.
 
Snarf said:
This thread is giving me a headache just remembering the shady couponers I used to deal with at the front.

Working in reverse logistics it can be disheartening seeing the waste from this. I will say it has gotten better with OTC product, but it's baby formula that we are having trouble with now. I think this past month I've had to process over twenty containers of formula.
Click to expand...
At my store it’s always allergy medicine.
 
I don't get where the confusion lies.

I have a coupon for a specific item. I think to myself, "Hey, I need that item, think I will go buy it and save some money to boot." I buy the item, use the coupon, then realize "Oops, I already have plenty of this item", or "Oops, I forgot I actually don't like this brand, think I will return it".

So I return it and I get back what I paid. Why would I need the coupon back if I do not need the item? I already bought it and saved the money. Then I decided I did not want and/or need the item, so therefore I DO NOT NEED THE COUPON. I am NOT entitled to get money back that I did not spend if I did not keep the product.

Coupons are not gift cards. They are a discount on a SPECIFIC item.
 

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