Archived AE2013 discussion

[ptL 567]

1 statement in there is to add 8 additional hours for the rxtl to perform leadership tasks...wtf are my god damn hours to perform leadership tasks instead of being a high paid tm.

amen

 

[salesfloor10]

I wish my store would go up an org chart. Then maybe we'd have some actual team to do work...(FDC, mid day zones, ptm, anything!) I'm sick of being the sales floor all day (aside from electronics tm).

 

[Snook]

Someone mentioned that food was getting reworked. Care to expand on that statement? Might explain why a FSA position opened up recently when we already have a FA and SBux TL (one of each). Or am I thinking of the wrong food...

 

[StaticSun]

Someone mentioned that food was getting reworked. Care to expand on that statement? Might explain why a FSA position opened up recently when we already have a FA and SBux TL (one of each). Or am I thinking of the wrong food...

+1 Food Assistant to Food org charts 1 & 2
+2 Food Assistants to Food org chart 4
+4 Food Assistants to Food org chart 5

Perishables Assistants will be based on pfresh sales, not org chart.
+1 PA (total of 3) for stores with pfresh >$20million

 

[alloverthefloor]

Perishables Assistants will be based on pfresh sales, not org chart.
+1 PA (total of 3) for stores with pfresh >$20million

Wooooo! I've always thought we should have more than one PA.

 

[Snook]

Interesting. I just looked up our store stats today and were org 2 but have 2 PA's; always have. I know our PFresh is pretty well performing so maybe that's why? And dang, wish they'd had the FSA position when I worked in food ave. coulda made a bit more money since I was by far the most qualified lol.

ETA: Just looked it up and last year we did 3.5m in pFresh sales. How does that rank up overall? How do I find out what Food Org chart we're in?

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

For over 1 million, get 2 pa. Are you a super t?

 

[Snook]

No, just a regular target that was one of the first to get pFresh almost three years ago.

 

[Rock Lobster]

Actually planning sales plans would be a leaders task. They own it. Of course they might delegate some of the workload (setting the salesplans, help with planning) to a Sales Floor TM, but its really not part of their job.

The problem with 0 GSTLs is that all the ownership is being put onto the GSAs. They are responsibile for things that a GSTL should be. Its far different than asking a GSA to "help out" and put endcaps up. A GSA isn't meant to be a leader, its meant to be a support role -- getting cashiers change/etc.

If they asked me to own something thats not mine, I'd tell them to go piss off. Oh wait I already did when I ditched my "extras".

My point is that we are confusing tasks a TL might do to keep busy (GSTL mapping and setting salesplans, BRTL working a detail report, a SLTL setting an adjacency) with roles a TL fulfills that makes them a leader (coachings and corrective actions, interviews, scheduling and staffing decisions, long-term goal setting for their area)... A few years ago Target figured out that the workload that really matters is the second one and they were spending twice as much money to have TLs doing the set of first tasks! In all honesty, a single GSTL could probably do all the "leadership" portion of the front end that is needed in most stores (up to probably A volume and higher)... But they had four in every store! That meant that each probably spent 5% of their time doing "leadership" work and 95% of the rest doing task work... Which is a waste!

I guess my point is that nothing around mapping and setting salesplans requires a leader to really do... A TM doesn't have to exercise any sort of authority to get on online planogram, find what salesplans are due, pick some old salesplans that are still up, and replace them! That really doesn't require a TL at all...

 

[StateofTarget]

Actually planning sales plans would be a leaders task. They own it. Of course they might delegate some of the workload (setting the salesplans, help with planning) to a Sales Floor TM, but its really not part of their job.

The problem with 0 GSTLs is that all the ownership is being put onto the GSAs. They are responsibile for things that a GSTL should be. Its far different than asking a GSA to "help out" and put endcaps up. A GSA isn't meant to be a leader, its meant to be a support role -- getting cashiers change/etc.

If they asked me to own something thats not mine, I'd tell them to go piss off. Oh wait I already did when I ditched my "extras".

My point is that we are confusing tasks a TL might do to keep busy (GSTL mapping and setting salesplans, BRTL working a detail report, a SLTL setting an adjacency) with roles a TL fulfills that makes them a leader (coachings and corrective actions, interviews, scheduling and staffing decisions, long-term goal setting for their area)... A few years ago Target figured out that the workload that really matters is the second one and they were spending twice as much money to have TLs doing the set of first tasks! In all honesty, a single GSTL could probably do all the "leadership" portion of the front end that is needed in most stores (up to probably A volume and higher)... But they had four in every store! That meant that each probably spent 5% of their time doing "leadership" work and 95% of the rest doing task work... Which is a waste!

I guess my point is that nothing around mapping and setting salesplans requires a leader to really do... A TM doesn't have to exercise any sort of authority to get on online planogram, find what salesplans are due, pick some old salesplans that are still up, and replace them! That really doesn't require a TL at all...

Exactly. There are only 4 things that separate management from non-management tasks. Management tasks are: controlling, organizing, leading, and planning. Anything else is almost always a non-management task.

Just because a TL/ETL might do something a TM does, doesn't make that an actual management task.

 

[Barcode]

If you read all the core roles for GSA, they are pretty much all service related. It is our job to support Team Members and Guests. It is NOT our jobs to pick up a GSTL/ETL-GE's slack in the offstage/planning department. The only thing we would really "own" would be Cash Office, we're in charge of that area similar to how a Photo Lab Assistant owns Photo Lab.

Sales planners fall in the "planning" department too. Same thing with the Gift Card Transitions. Guess what our GSTLs try to get out of doing? Haha. I miss the Target when I started. There were actually enough Team Leads to get the work done instead of paying minimum wage workers to do all the dirty work for "development". Rofl.

The GSTLs at my store are pretty much worthless except for the "planning" they do. One GSTL takes an hour to get cashiers change, the other GSTL still hasn't figured out how to close registers properly, and left our iPad out overnight /facepalm. Both of them are considerably sloppy when it comes to organization, and handoffs are usually nonexistant and I'll be left figuring out what kind of situation I'm coming into. I'll give one of my GSTLs a pass since they're still semi-new, and I don't mind working with them too much. Our veteran GSTL is pretty much worthless though.

 

[StateofTarget]

If you read all the core roles for GSA, they are pretty much all service related. It is our job to support Team Members and Guests. It is NOT our jobs to pick up a GSTL/ETL-GE's slack in the offstage/planning department. The only thing we would really "own" would be Cash Office, we're in charge of that area similar to how a Photo Lab Assistant owns Photo Lab.

Sales planners fall in the "planning" department too. Same thing with the Gift Card Transitions. Guess what our GSTLs try to get out of doing? Haha. I miss the Target when I started. There were actually enough Team Leads to get the work done instead of paying minimum wage workers to do all the dirty work for "development". Rofl.

Let me clarify "planning"..... You are making "planning" way too simple. When I say planning, I don't mean "Should I stock the candy on this shelf first or the chips?". That isn't "planning" as much as it is "deciding". The only "planning" that goes in to sales planners is "Should I set this on A1 or A3?" That isn't really "planning", that is "deciding". Deciding is what every single worker - at every single company - has to do as part of their job every day. The sales planners are already "planned" for you by people at HQ. They decide what is on the sales planners, when they will need to be set by, etc. (technically they even decide what aisles you should set them on, but most stores ignore that....)

I am talking about broad, long term, planning with significant impacts to the company and employees that the average person would not have authority to plan. For example, "Next month we will be short on payroll. Should we cut hours from the floor this month to compensate?" or "It is about to be a new fiscal year. Over the next year HQ says we need to cut payroll expenses, enhance the store appearance, reduce the amount of food that is being tossed due to expiring, and lower turnover. We will need to get John the CTL to start a monthly log documenting the quantity of food that expires. Then Sarah, the ETL-HL, you will be responsible for reviewing the log over the next year and making decisions as to how to adjust the amount of food that is being ordered. Then by the time October gets here in 10 months, you need to....."

That is management level planning. "Should I work the stray in toys or electronics first?" is not management level planning.

Really TLs don't do much management level planning... There are few isolated exceptions, but mostly ETLs and higher in the company do actual management level planning.

In order to actually "plan" sales planners in a management perspective, you would have to do what HQ does. In other words, it is January right now. What products are we going to put on the toy end caps in May, September, and October? How many of them will have product on sales/TPC during those months? There is a supplier in China that wants to sell a toy called Captain Glids. Should we purchase 10,000 units of that toy and send them to the stores to be an exclusive product on a sales planner? We are expecting to only sell 60% of them at most. Is it still worth it to put them on an end cap in October? Should we make that end cap carry forward in December?

 

[Barcode]

If you read all the core roles for GSA, they are pretty much all service related. It is our job to support Team Members and Guests. It is NOT our jobs to pick up a GSTL/ETL-GE's slack in the offstage/planning department. The only thing we would really "own" would be Cash Office, we're in charge of that area similar to how a Photo Lab Assistant owns Photo Lab.

Sales planners fall in the "planning" department too. Same thing with the Gift Card Transitions. Guess what our GSTLs try to get out of doing? Haha. I miss the Target when I started. There were actually enough Team Leads to get the work done instead of paying minimum wage workers to do all the dirty work for "development". Rofl.

Let me clarify "planning"..... You are making "planning" way too simple. When I say planning, I don't mean "Should I stock the candy on this shelf first or the chips?". That isn't "planning" as much as it is "deciding". The only "planning" that goes in to sales planners is "Should I set this on A1 or A3?" That isn't really "planning", that is "deciding". Deciding is what every single worker - at every single company - has to do as part of their job every day.

I am talking about broad, long term, planning with significant impacts to the company and employees that the average person would not have authority to plan. For example, "Next month we will be short on payroll. Should we cut hours from the floor this month to compensate?" or "It is about to be a new fiscal year. Over the next year HQ says we need to cut payroll expenses, enhance the store appearance, reduce the amount of food that is being tossed due to expiring, and lower turnover. We will need to get John the CTL to start a monthly log documenting the quantity of food that expires. Then Sarah, the ETL-HL, you will be responsible for reviewing the log over the next year and making decisions as to how to adjust the amount of food that is being ordered. Then by the time October gets here in 10 months, you need to....."

That is management level planning. "Should I work the stray in toys or electronics first?" is not management level planning.

Really TLs don't do much management level planning... There are few isolated exceptions, but mostly ETLs and higher in the company do actual management level planning.

/yawn

Not sure why you keep drinking the TL koolaid even though you're a TM.

And to counter your argument, there is plenty of "planning" that goes into sales "planners". It's important to have them set in locations that make proper sense to drive sales. Like you aren't going to make a DVD Endcap way down towards electronics when people are already walking by other DVD Endcaps. You'd put it by grocery so people just coming in for groceries might impulse buy an electronic item. Plenty of planning goes into effective sales planners to maximize sales potential.

Most TLs are lazy though and don't care about maximizing sales, so they'll just let a TM slop it together.

 

[StateofTarget]

If you read all the core roles for GSA, they are pretty much all service related. It is our job to support Team Members and Guests. It is NOT our jobs to pick up a GSTL/ETL-GE's slack in the offstage/planning department. The only thing we would really "own" would be Cash Office, we're in charge of that area similar to how a Photo Lab Assistant owns Photo Lab.

Sales planners fall in the "planning" department too. Same thing with the Gift Card Transitions. Guess what our GSTLs try to get out of doing? Haha. I miss the Target when I started. There were actually enough Team Leads to get the work done instead of paying minimum wage workers to do all the dirty work for "development". Rofl.

Let me clarify "planning"..... You are making "planning" way too simple. When I say planning, I don't mean "Should I stock the candy on this shelf first or the chips?". That isn't "planning" as much as it is "deciding". The only "planning" that goes in to sales planners is "Should I set this on A1 or A3?" That isn't really "planning", that is "deciding". Deciding is what every single worker - at every single company - has to do as part of their job every day.

I am talking about broad, long term, planning with significant impacts to the company and employees that the average person would not have authority to plan. For example, "Next month we will be short on payroll. Should we cut hours from the floor this month to compensate?" or "It is about to be a new fiscal year. Over the next year HQ says we need to cut payroll expenses, enhance the store appearance, reduce the amount of food that is being tossed due to expiring, and lower turnover. We will need to get John the CTL to start a monthly log documenting the quantity of food that expires. Then Sarah, the ETL-HL, you will be responsible for reviewing the log over the next year and making decisions as to how to adjust the amount of food that is being ordered. Then by the time October gets here in 10 months, you need to....."

That is management level planning. "Should I work the stray in toys or electronics first?" is not management level planning.

Really TLs don't do much management level planning... There are few isolated exceptions, but mostly ETLs and higher in the company do actual management level planning.

/yawn

Not sure why you keep drinking the TL koolaid even though you're a TM.

And to counter your argument, there is plenty of "planning" that goes into sales "planners". It's important to have them set in locations that make proper sense to drive sales. Like you aren't going to make a DVD Endcap way down towards electronics when people are already walking by other DVD Endcaps. You'd put it by grocery so people just coming in for groceries might impulse buy an electronic item. Plenty of planning goes into effective sales planners to maximize sales potential.

Most TLs are lazy though and don't care about maximizing sales, so they'll just let a TM slop it together.

I used to be a TL, and I can tell you that TLs hardly ever do any "planning" that impacts anything in any major way. That has pretty much all been taken away by the ETLs years ago.

All I am trying to say, is that you are *not* doing "management" work because you decide to put an sales planner on A2 or A5, nor is a TL doing management work when he/she decides to do that. It is simply not management work because it really requires no "authority" to do, nor does it have a major impact to the company or other people employed by the company.... that's why TMs also get to do it.

Now, go up to your STL and try to get permission to plan payroll for the next 3 months. See what happens. Or try to get permission to plan how to manage the crowd outside at the next black friday as well as plan all the safety precautions the store will take. You'll get slapped down immediately. Why? Because that is management level planning, and TMs (and even TLs) are therefore not allowed to do it.

P.S. Just because I don't have a 4 year degree like you doesn't mean I'm too stupid to see when TMs are being played for fools. ETLs can stand around and tell TMs they are getting to make management level decisions when they decide where to set sales planners, but that's all it is.... ETLs playing TMs for fools in order to make them feel special and important while they set sales planners. It's a form of motivations, and ETLs telling people it's "management" work doesn't make it so. I wish I was an ETL.... I would tell TMs that cleaning up the vomit on the floor is a "management" job, and I bet I would have 10 TMs fighting over who gets to clean it up.

 

[Barcode]

You forgot to put TL alongside ETL there, otherwise yes you are pretty much accurate.

That being said, transitions and other non-service related tasks are not a TM's responsibility, unless said TM decides to "captain" it for development. Yippee!

Its the responsibility of the department managers to make sure all tasks that do not fall under the core roles of the Team Members get completed. The TL can delegate these tasks to TMs, but its still the responsibility of the TL. If they tell me to set 3 endcaps and I am busy with guests/TMs all night and could only set 1, its not my problem, its my TLs.

GSA's are pretty much Guest Service Specialists yet we get paid crap. Pretty much all TMs get paid crap since they got rid of specialists. So management can **** off and eat a dick.

 

[ISIS639]

And to counter your argument, there is plenty of "planning" that goes into sales "planners". It's important to have them set in locations that make proper sense to drive sales. Like you aren't going to make a DVD Endcap way down towards electronics when people are already walking by other DVD Endcaps. You'd put it by grocery so people just coming in for groceries might impulse buy an electronic item. Plenty of planning goes into effective sales planners to maximize sales potential.

Well, I guess you just proved your point. It would probably be a bad idea to have you "plan" endcaps if you think the DVD spl should go by the bananas.

 

[Barcode]

And to counter your argument, there is plenty of "planning" that goes into sales "planners". It's important to have them set in locations that make proper sense to drive sales. Like you aren't going to make a DVD Endcap way down towards electronics when people are already walking by other DVD Endcaps. You'd put it by grocery so people just coming in for groceries might impulse buy an electronic item. Plenty of planning goes into effective sales planners to maximize sales potential.

Well, I guess you just proved your point. It would probably be a bad idea to have you "plan" endcaps if you think the DVD spl should go by the bananas.

Keep in mind I'm referring mostly to checklane endcaps, so its not unusual to mix GM and Grocery ends. We have 2 DVD Endcaps on our grocery side. On top of having higher price points and more exposure its a much better move than putting them down towards electronics. They get shopped pretty good. So yes it is a good thing they're near the bananas!

 

[ISIS639]

And to counter your argument, there is plenty of "planning" that goes into sales "planners". It's important to have them set in locations that make proper sense to drive sales. Like you aren't going to make a DVD Endcap way down towards electronics when people are already walking by other DVD Endcaps. You'd put it by grocery so people just coming in for groceries might impulse buy an electronic item. Plenty of planning goes into effective sales planners to maximize sales potential.

Well, I guess you just proved your point. It would probably be a bad idea to have you "plan" endcaps if you think the DVD spl should go by the bananas.

Keep in mind I'm referring mostly to checklane endcaps, so its not unusual to mix GM and Grocery ends. We have 2 DVD Endcaps on our grocery side. On top of having higher price points and more exposure its a much better move than putting them down towards electronics. They get shopped pretty good. So yes it is a good thing they're near the bananas!

I'm not super familiar with stores with 2 sets of checkouts, so I really have no idea, but I would expect Target to tell you which endcaps should go on which side, is that not the case?

 

[Barcode]

And to counter your argument, there is plenty of "planning" that goes into sales "planners". It's important to have them set in locations that make proper sense to drive sales. Like you aren't going to make a DVD Endcap way down towards electronics when people are already walking by other DVD Endcaps. You'd put it by grocery so people just coming in for groceries might impulse buy an electronic item. Plenty of planning goes into effective sales planners to maximize sales potential.

Well, I guess you just proved your point. It would probably be a bad idea to have you "plan" endcaps if you think the DVD spl should go by the bananas.

Keep in mind I'm referring mostly to checklane endcaps, so its not unusual to mix GM and Grocery ends. We have 2 DVD Endcaps on our grocery side. On top of having higher price points and more exposure its a much better move than putting them down towards electronics. They get shopped pretty good. So yes it is a good thing they're near the bananas!

I'm not super familiar with stores with 2 sets of checkouts, so I really have no idea, but I would expect Target to tell you which endcaps should go on which side, is that not the case?

We are a super-target. We have a lot of checkouts and they're one really long line, so they stretch across the entire store almost. Target doesn't say which endcaps go where, thats for our GSTLs to decide. Proper sales plan allocation is part of driving sales for their workcenter. Kinda funny hearing TLs/TL wannabes here saying we should just put the stuff anywhere! Haha. I'd love to see their ETLs ask them what they're doing to drive profitable sales, I bet they'd sink big on that one.

 

[Rock Lobster]

And to counter your argument, there is plenty of "planning" that goes into sales "planners". It's important to have them set in locations that make proper sense to drive sales. Like you aren't going to make a DVD Endcap way down towards electronics when people are already walking by other DVD Endcaps. You'd put it by grocery so people just coming in for groceries might impulse buy an electronic item. Plenty of planning goes into effective sales planners to maximize sales potential.

Well, I guess you just proved your point. It would probably be a bad idea to have you "plan" endcaps if you think the DVD spl should go by the bananas.

Keep in mind I'm referring mostly to checklane endcaps, so its not unusual to mix GM and Grocery ends. We have 2 DVD Endcaps on our grocery side. On top of having higher price points and more exposure its a much better move than putting them down towards electronics. They get shopped pretty good. So yes it is a good thing they're near the bananas!

I'm not super familiar with stores with 2 sets of checkouts, so I really have no idea, but I would expect Target to tell you which endcaps should go on which side, is that not the case?

We are a super-target. We have a lot of checkouts and they're one really long line, so they stretch across the entire store almost. Target doesn't say which endcaps go where, thats for our GSTLs to decide. Proper sales plan allocation is part of driving sales for their workcenter. Kinda funny hearing TLs/TL wannabes here saying we should just put the stuff anywhere! Haha. I'd love to see their ETLs ask them what they're doing to drive profitable sales, I bet they'd sink big on that one.

Yes and no... While it is "decision making", it isn't a decision that requires any authority or training for someone who has been at Target for a few months... I think most team members could easily handle the workload and never have to do any sort of leadership only task to get them done (delegating, coaching etc)... That is our point, what about salesplans makes it a leadership only role other than it USED to be only a team leader's job a few years ago? What specifically about salesplans actually requires a team leader to perform this duty?

And if my ETL asks about how I am impacting DPS it is going to be focused on much larger and meaningful things! I have to speak to much larger things than a GSA does (which is why I am amazed so many people on here say GSA's and GSTLs do the same thing!)... I have to speak to turnover, BTS results, sales and payroll, YTD metrics (both store and my own), and most importantly scheduling and staffing decisions (which I own for my area)... If my salesplans weren't getting done than it would be brought up, but my ETL would treat it the same as if I didn't finish closing the lanes in a timely manner or was caught not speedweaving... It hasn't happened and its just plain task, she would wonder how I became a TL if I couldn't get those done lol...

 

[ISIS639]

Kinda funny hearing TLs/TL wannabes here saying we should just put the stuff anywhere!

When did anyone say that?

 

[Barcode]

You're deluded if you think its anyone else's responsibility but your own.

I'm done arguing with holier than thou TLs.

**** Target.


Recap of last 2 pages: TLs think any actual "work" isn't their job. Their job entirely revolves around sitting in a swirly chair in the office making "leadership" decisions.

 

[Determinism]

You're deluded if you think its anyone else's responsibility but your own.

I'm done arguing with holier than thou TLs.

**** Target.


Recap of last 2 pages: TLs think any actual "work" isn't their job. Their job entirely revolves around sitting in a swirly chair in the office making "leadership" decisions.

That recap is utter bull**** if there are current TLs that have that mindset. The position is labeled as Team Lead for a reason. Leadership requires much more than just paperwork or sales planner allocations. TLs should be leading by example and hold their TMs to that same blanket standard. In my opinion, a good leader knows when to delegate tasks to those TMs that are high performing but are ultimately responsible for it. If it doesn't get done, the TL owns it. That's part of the job and the responsibility that comes with it.

 

[AssetsProtection]

All AP changes are on Workbench for those who have access..

 

[ISIS639]

You're deluded if you think its anyone else's responsibility but your own.

I'm done arguing with holier than thou TLs.

**** Target.


Recap of last 2 pages: TLs think any actual "work" isn't their job. Their job entirely revolves around sitting in a swirly chair in the office making "leadership" decisions.

I remember you being a bit of a know-it-all, but its only fairly recently you've become a complete a**. Get a new job. This one is obviously making you miserable. And again, I would love for you to point and tell me where all of us TLs said we should just put sales planners anywhere?

And the thing about leadership is that all of those silly things you think we think sit in an office chair and do, we are actually doing on the floor, and getting everything done we need to, like setting endcaps and mapping them. We are getting our leadership tasks done with 0 hours to do so. Even having a GSA watch the lanes for us takes PLANNING. Not "important" planning, like SoT says, but we can't just pull them to watch. The hours don't quite work that way. I'm sorry if your leadership sucks, but don't peg the rest of us like that. Chances are, every GSTL on here is probably more efficient at supervising the lanes than you are (or were, I don't know what you do now) b/c I promise you, I know that attitude of yours, and it doesn't come with a superior work ethic. Maybe it did at one point, but not anymore.