Archived If you think Target's AP is going to shit...

[Pelon1071]

Walmart beet you there...


So after learning about how local Walmarts are having a slight increase in theft. I asked my mom who works at one of these walmarts about their AP, and oh boy.


I don't know if this is a company wide issue, or if it's local management being incompetent, but wow. Her store only had 1... 1... ONE!!! person for AP. That's it! And they're not always there. They call out a lot, and, that person is on vacation. And I think people have started to notice, because according to associates, there hasn't been a day where people don't just walk out with a cart full of shit. Through the emergency door, or the more bold front door.

People seem to not be afraid to just take shit, because there's no one to stop them. And just the other day, I saw someone just casually walk out the emergency door with shit; no fucks given.


So I talked to a department manager:


Me: Is there a problem with theft?


Them: Yea, people are starting to steal things more often; they even steal our equipment.


Me: Well... don't you think they need to step up their AP game?


...


...


I got the best response ever...


Them: What's AP?

 

[HRZone]

Well. Not everyone calls it AP. It's one of those Target terms although some other places like Ross and Marshall's use it.

There was a thread a while back about it.

Target v. Walmart Security

 

[Catalina]

My store only has one AP gal as well. But she doesn't have attendence issues.

 

[Pelon1071]

Well. Not everyone calls it AP. It's one of those Target terms although some other places like Ross and Marshall's use it.

Walmart uses it as well.

 

[anathema]

From what I've heard, Walmart is more the type to have 3-4 people on the floor and NPIs are essentially non-issues unless habitual. I'm not sure if that's changed recently or if that's even true, though. I've seen a few Ex-Walmart LPs come to Target and not be able to last, though.

 

[garbage]

I follow a group on Facebook that has a LOT of Walmart AP guys on it. Most of them knock Target AP as not being real AP because it's so Prevention and operational focused, and the vast majority of Target AP cannot make stops, let alone call PD.

 

[Frontlanegirl]

Amazing how many local police alerts I receive about Kohl's. They go after people.

 

[BackroomAlpha]

One of my good buds is a logistics manager at walmart and ive heard him talk about how crazy his stores AP is. Crazy I mean on top of everything. Theyve got a designated person that walks the floor in non employee clothing that sniffs out thievery. lol

It is definitely a local issue with them.

 

[pinkp2ie]

Why does my store's AP always seem fine. I guess i don't see everything

 

[On6]

The main difference between Target and Walmart AP is the physical security (TPS) presence Target offers in some stores vs Walmart who mostly uses greeters, with contract guards in really bad stores. Walmart's main deterrent is the risk of being caught by plain clothes vs Target focusing on prevention via uniformed security.

That's where the differences stop. There are many Target stores that only have one AP person. I'm not surprised to hear some Walmart stores run with the same amount of AP staffing as Target stores that have similar sales and risk.

 

[thetargetman]

I don't know if AP would be the job for me lol. I am not really into confrontation.

 

[60SecondsRemaining]

I follow a group on Facebook that has a LOT of Walmart AP guys on it. Most of them knock Target AP as not being real AP because it's so Prevention and operational focused, and the vast majority of Target AP cannot make stops, let alone call PD.

Anyone with any real amount of experience knows that most of your loss is operational, and in the event it is physical theft, stops are costly. Prevention is much more cost effective from a business standpoint.

Source: Helped reduce 4 stores that were 4+% shrink to 1.5 and under

 

[On6]

Anyone with any real amount of experience knows that most of your loss is operational, and in the event it is physical theft, stops are costly. Prevention is much more cost effective from a business standpoint.

Source: Helped reduce 4 stores that were 4+% shrink to 1.5 and under

I would agree to a certain extent. Prevention will not stop everything. Some (not all) people are deterred from stealing because the fear of getting caught. Once people realize that element is gone your pretty much screwed and it becomes a free for all. It doesn't matter how many spider wraps or stickers you put on a item. It will walk out the door just as easily.

 

[60SecondsRemaining]

I would agree to a certain extent. Prevention will not stop everything. Some (not all) people are deterred from stealing because the fear of getting caught. Once people realize that element is gone your pretty much screwed and it becomes a free for all. It doesn't matter how many spider wraps or stickers you put on a item. It will walk out the door just as easily.

Prevention is more about training and teaching your employees to recognize red flags and to know when to service or know when to call out.

Meth head with 2 dysons in his cart? Call AP or call the cops and tell them you have a suspicious person in the store if no AP is available. Cops will come, you can "chat" with them at the door, sketchy dyson thief leaves. Or is AP is there, they can just stand at the door.

Soccer mom stuffing DVD's under her kid? Walk right up and offer to carry them to the front for her. "I see you're having some trouble fitting those in your cart, would you like me to take them to the front for you until you're ready?"

Another major part of it is understanding where ORC boosters are hitting and creating a path that employees walk to ensure those aisles are being walked through with regular frequency. In a store like Target I would assume (I don't work in general retail anymore) it is probably Laundry Detergent, Bedding, OTC Meds, Razors, Infant formula, and batteries. If you have 20 people in the store at a given time if they all walk a designated path to and from breaks/lunches then your aisles are being hit once about every 30m, and they just service everyone in the aisle. Adds a bit of time to the walk but it's very effective.

One person can't be successful in any workcenter. If you train your teams properly you can cut theft exponentially while focusing on operational shortage which is where the big money loss is.

 

[garbage]

I agree more with what On6 was saying. Prevention only works when the lifters (and especially boosters) believe they will be caught. If you take away the aspect of getting caught or reduce it so the chances of getting caught are like 1 in a million, people are going to be a shit ton more bold.

At one point, my store had a serious problem with Juvies because we didn't have an APS and my ETL wouldn't ever app. Eventually PMRs stopped doing shit. Why? Because they knew worst case scenario, they get offered guest service or asked to give it back, then they flick us off as they leave. When my new ETL-AP app'd one of the juvies, he was balling his eyes out the entire time in the booking room. Never had a problem with the juvies since.

Cutting operational losses is a MAJOR pain in the ass. You need to retrain staff ( $$), hire better staff ($$), and spend time looking for the same errors again and again. While your spending hours doing that, app'ing a simple push out can save the company thousands by almost guaranteeing that booster won't be doing it again or their friends for that matter because Target will be viewed as a zero tolerance company.

Prevention works just as much as having a State Trooper parked near a highway entrance. Sure they won't speed next to you, but they will start once your out of view...ESPECIALLY if they know you won't be issuing tickets and only warnings instead.

EDIT: One more thing I'd like to add about even casual shoplifters. Seeing a lifer with the police outside handcuffed sends a MUCH stronger message to potential lifters than "Can I help you find something" or a guy in a blue polo.

 

[Kompa]

Who cares. Everything is insured and you cant stop them anyway

 

[Kartman]

That's the crazy part...

 

[Frontlanegirl]

I agree more with what On6 was saying. Prevention only works when the lifters (and especially boosters) believe they will be caught. If you take away the aspect of getting caught or reduce it so the chances of getting caught are like 1 in a million, people are going to be a shit ton more bold.

At one point, my store had a serious problem with Juvies because we didn't have an APS and my ETL wouldn't ever app. Eventually PMRs stopped doing shit. Why? Because they knew worst case scenario, they get offered guest service or asked to give it back, then they flick us off as they leave. When my new ETL-AP app'd one of the juvies, he was balling his eyes out the entire time in the booking room. Never had a problem with the juvies since.

Cutting operational losses is a MAJOR pain in the ass. You need to retrain staff ( $$), hire better staff ($$), and spend time looking for the same errors again and again. While your spending hours doing that, app'ing a simple push out can save the company thousands by almost guaranteeing that booster won't be doing it again or their friends for that matter because Target will be viewed as a zero tolerance company.

Prevention works just as much as having a State Trooper parked near a highway entrance. Sure they won't speed next to you, but they will start once your out of view...ESPECIALLY if they know you won't be issuing tickets and only warnings instead.

EDIT: One more thing I'd like to add about even casual shoplifters. Seeing a lifer with the police outside handcuffed sends a MUCH stronger message to potential lifters than "Can I help you find something" or a guy in a blue polo.

Or a lifter being led out of the store handcuffed.

 

[60SecondsRemaining]

I agree more with what On6 was saying. Prevention only works when the lifters (and especially boosters) believe they will be caught. If you take away the aspect of getting caught or reduce it so the chances of getting caught are like 1 in a million, people are going to be a shit ton more bold.

At one point, my store had a serious problem with Juvies because we didn't have an APS and my ETL wouldn't ever app. Eventually PMRs stopped doing shit. Why? Because they knew worst case scenario, they get offered guest service or asked to give it back, then they flick us off as they leave. When my new ETL-AP app'd one of the juvies, he was balling his eyes out the entire time in the booking room. Never had a problem with the juvies since.

Cutting operational losses is a MAJOR pain in the ass. You need to retrain staff ( $$), hire better staff ($$), and spend time looking for the same errors again and again. While your spending hours doing that, app'ing a simple push out can save the company thousands by almost guaranteeing that booster won't be doing it again or their friends for that matter because Target will be viewed as a zero tolerance company.

Prevention works just as much as having a State Trooper parked near a highway entrance. Sure they won't speed next to you, but they will start once your out of view...ESPECIALLY if they know you won't be issuing tickets and only warnings instead.

EDIT: One more thing I'd like to add about even casual shoplifters. Seeing a lifer with the police outside handcuffed sends a MUCH stronger message to potential lifters than "Can I help you find something" or a guy in a blue polo.

If you prefer not to work on operational loss and you should solely focus on one side of the business, then you have the wrong attitude and you aren't in the right position. Root causing problems and fixing them for real is always a pain in the ass which is why it's a problem in the first place, because no one took the time to fix the root before it became a problem because it was a "MAJOR pain in the ass" or inconvenient. Attitudes like that are how you landslide a store into the ground . And that goes for any issue, not just AP/LP related ones. The real solutions are never easy but if you only go for the convenient fixes then you'll never get a real solution.

 

[garbage]

If you prefer not to work on operational loss and you should solely focus on one side of the business, then you have the wrong attitude and you aren't in the right position. Root causing problems and fixing them for real is always a pain in the ass which is why it's a problem in the first place, because no one took the time to fix the root before it became a problem because it was a "MAJOR pain in the ass" or inconvenient. Attitudes like that are how you landslide a store into the ground . And that goes for any issue, not just AP/LP related ones. The real solutions are never easy but if you only go for the convenient fixes then you'll never get a real solution.

I agree, but this is retail with a fairly low wage company, almost all TM's will not do things right. You can spend a day teaching TMs on the proper method of doing thing, but by next month, it's back to usual....Or even an entire new group of TMs.

Do it right the first time is NEVER going to happen when you've got a guest service TM who started 3 days ago in their first job, making $9, while in school.

 

[60SecondsRemaining]

I agree, but this is retail with a fairly low wage company, almost all TM's will not do things right. You can spend a day teaching TMs on the proper method of doing thing, but by next month, it's back to usual....Or even an entire new group of TMs.

Do it right the first time is NEVER going to happen when you've got a guest service TM who started 3 days ago in their first job, making $9, while in school.

Effort has very little to do with money and very much to do with leadership and example. People don't go to work and do things wrong on purpose, if you show them the right way most of the time they'll do it the right way. There will always be someone who does something incorrectly because they're lazy but 99.9% of the time it's just because they were never shown.

If you went in tomorrow and your ETL told you that you were doing something incorrectly and showed you the correct way to do it, would you? Probably so? How would you feel if he simple deemed you weren't worth the time because you're just a tps and you only make 10$ an hour, and you're in school. You assume the ethic of an individual is related to their wage, and that's foolish.

 

[garbage]

You assume the ethic of an individual is related to their wage, and that's foolish.

That's correct, I believe there is a strong correlation between work ethic and wage, and your naive if you don't think so. Pay people like you don't give a shit about them, and the majority of them won't give a shit about the business. Exceptions are all over the place, but as a general rule, you get what you pay for. One of my good friends is a manager at Costco and the past year, they had zero internals. We had 17.

When your paying your cashiers $17 an hour, as Costco does, people try a little harder to keep their jobs.

 

[60SecondsRemaining]

That's correct, I believe there is a strong correlation between work ethic and wage, and your naive if you don't think so. Pay people like you don't give a shit about them, and the majority of them won't give a shit about the business. Exceptions are all over the place, but as a general rule, you get what you pay for. One of my good friends is a manager at Costco and the past year, they had zero internals. We had 17.

When your paying your cashiers $17 an hour, as Costco does, people try a little harder to keep their jobs.

You're confusing ethic with effort. I agree the wage impacts the effort, but you can counter that if the leadership is strong.

And 17 internals in a year is insane. That speaks more to poor hiring practice than anything else. Thats out of your control.

 

[On6]

And 17 internals in a year is insane. That speaks more to poor hiring practice than anything else. Thats out of your control.

That really shows it's hard (but not impossible) to find good people when most jobs pay more and/or offer better hours. I don't excuse stealing in any instance. But with the pay and hours that Target offers most people it doesn't surprise me when you find people that aren't fully devoted. That stuff happens when you treat people as nothing more than a number.

 

[garbage]

That really shows it's hard (but not impossible) to find good people when most jobs pay more and/or offer better hours. I don't excuse stealing in any instance. But with the pay and hours that Target offers most people it doesn't surprise me when you find people that aren't fully devoted. That stuff happens when you treat people as nothing more than a number.

Exactly. Also, I was factoring in HR policy internals as well.